well, with so many mods it only makes sense to start from scratch when something is amiss... its clear as day!

and yes, i am using drop lit torch as a standalone. however, if what you say is true and some simple bashed patch magic will restore it, I will delete the standalone again and gladly use OOOs drop lit torch feature

well and of courds VWD will kill FPS, question is how much... I tried RAEVWD and though it might be the best optimized and bug free, it still is very very fps hungry. the other one I tried (TVWD) did only show a very small fraction of VWD objects, but the fps drop was negletable... I would gladly use RAEVWD but only as long as my fps stay playble, since this doesnt seem likely I might try TVWD again or not use any VWD mod altogether...

Added:
- Quest Award Leveler
- Mountain Tower (Playerhome)
- Enhanced Vegetation (Timescale 15, 110%, smaller than vanilla textures)
- Replaced Harvest Flora from OOO with Harvest Flora with 100% Chance
- Deadly Reflex (+CTD Fix)
- Stealth Overhaul (+COBL Addon)
- Supreme Magicka

The meshes used in TVWD are not properly optimized and will result in visual anomalies.

As for how to make RAEVWD less hungry, the readme for the mod mentions some things you can do.

well, for now I will test everything without any VWD then...

as soon as the patch is done building I will test the current mods and see if the fps appear playable.

next would be performance improving mods.

i got the oblivion stutter remover as was suggested and the lowpolygras.

i have oblivion polygone overhaul (mostly rock meshes with less polygons)
oblivion script optimizer (redone oblivion scripts to save cpu time)
operation optimazation (again polygon reduceced meshes)

these ok? any more known to you guys?

Dump it. It's filled with defective meshes that often lead to crashes. Especially the rocks.



Also dump it. It's been shown to be generally useless. Any potential gains are mostly wiped out by mods that need to alter various scripts, and most of what did get touched isn't running in GameMode anyway.

ok on go

- operation optimization
- obivion stutter remover
- lowpolygras
- optimised distand land MAX 1.1#


edit: well, so far when exiting sewers and running straight into the ruins in front of you with 2 bandits - everything looks good and well playble...


current modlist:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.8]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  MD_Saddle_Master.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]09  HorseCombatMaster.esm0A  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.4]0B  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0C  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0D  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0E  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp12  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]14  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp15  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.8]16  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.8]++  All Natural - EW + NW.esp  [Version 0.9.8]17  Storms & Sound.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]18  Living Economy.esp19  Living Economy - Items.esp1A  Cutthroat Merchants.esp1B  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.3]1C  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]1D  sr_super_hotkeys.esp1E  DLCHorseArmor.esp1F  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]20  DLCOrrery.esp21  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]22  DLCVileLair.esp23  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]24  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp25  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]26  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]27  MD Saddlebags v3.0.esp28  DLCThievesDen.esp29  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]2A  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2B  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]2C  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]2D  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2E  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp2F  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp31  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]32  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]33  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]34  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3A  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]3B  allinonebasemant.esp3C  MountainTower.esp  [Version 6.0]3D  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp3E  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]3F  DLCFrostcrag.esp40  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]41  Knights.esp42  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]43  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]44  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]45  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]46  Cliff_BetterLetters.esp  [Version 1.1]47  Dousing The Flames.esp  [Version 1.10]48  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]49  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp4A  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp++  more books teach.esp4B  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]4C  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]4D  Enhanced Vegetation [110%].esp4E  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]4F  ATakesAll.esp50  Quest Award Leveller.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp51  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]52  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]53  StealthOverhaul.esp54  StealthOverhaul, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.1]55  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp56  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.86]57  All+5AttributeModifiers.esp58  _darker_dungeons.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]59  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.8]5A  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

http://oblivionmodgods.de/rpg-blackdragons-lowtripolygrass-t68.html mesh replacer for grasses, different lvls of detail that you can choose from .. omod version ..

thats the one i got... thanks
and thanks to all the others... i feel like there is still room for improvement with .ini tweaks, maybe even get blackdragons ati 1.2 shader(?) but for now, i cant complain. my fps are better now, sure, i have yet to real test dungeons and stuff, but only from walking from the sewer exit to the bridge i just know the fps improved...

also, I did added now:
- Symphony of Violence (general sound mod)
- Atmospheric Oblivion (sound immersion mod)
i hope these sound mods were not the cause for slow fps - but Ill see soon enough

- Exchanged OOOs Living Economy.esp with Living Economy SI.esp for Sivering Isles (and hope it wont backfire in some way)
- Exchanged Keychain with one for SI support


so what did I not install this time?
- BTQ Landscape LODs (2048)
- Landscape LOD . Texture Replacement Border Regions (2048)
(those definatly would have an impact since they are 2048 instead of 1024 sized)

- Landscape - NormalMap Fix
- Terrain Noise Replacer
(those two, not sure if they would have an impact on performance. if not and they are recommended, tell me)

- no VWD (so far)
- no obivion.ini tweaks that some website suggested (maybe I/they screwed up there?)
- no enhanced water (i find it looks good nuff as it is)
- no OOO-WaterWeeds (dont need them!)
- no Natural Habitat (sure, nice immersion mod, but I rather have the fps for something actuall usefull)
- no tamriel travelers (nice to have, but since they possibly impact performance too much, im not using them anymore)


What do I miss?
- a (resonable vanilla size textures) nvde mod like EXNEM or HGEC (both would be fine, except that the textures I found are too big)
- any vanilla sizes texture packs that improve the graphics
- ???

suggestions are welcome...

BlackDragon ATI 1.2 Shader does not work well with ATI Cards Higher than HD 2XXX thru HD 5XXX ..i

=======

My Vbirant Textures Pack (which is vanilla based) will fill in all those gaps above..Distant LOD Color Maps and Normal Maps, Terrain Noise Replacer (which cause not fps hit).

EVE HGEC has body textures that are not high rez..and has all the body replacers need for all those mod you plan on using..

And Tamriel Travellers should only have small fps hit once again when loaded..

All in my sig..

too bad about the shader. thanks for the warning...

and I will look into your suggestions...

however, I strongly suspected HGEG (with stock textures) to be one of the culprits of my slow framerates (in fights with women)

If I use bain to install HGEC and all the clothing stuff and I dont like em and deinstall, it would restore any overwritten files yes? then I would give it another try.

bethias, PLEASE do yourself a favor and look at the Vibrant Textures Corepc has mentioned (and created ). I feel they are awesome and will not give a negative hit in FPS! I use them myself and am totally happy with them. BUT: You should also download and install Bomret textures pack before you install the Vibrants. Bomret alone is already quite a lot better than vanilla.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=982463

Corepc has recently made a 1.5 update of Vibrant, pretty much starting here:

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=982463&view=findpost&p=15582791
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=982463&view=findpost&p=15591056

Make sure you read up the thread, as there is a little fix by Corepc for his version 1.5, it's also mentioned in the last few days there.

I used to use QTP3 when I last played the game 1 1/2 years ago, but the combination of Bomret and Vibrant is really the better option (not the least because of performance) than QT3 or even QTP3 Redimized.

As to Bomret again: Corepc himself recommends installing Bomret, and then Vibrant thereafter. It's written in post #1 of the Vibrant thread I cited above. You have to scoll down towards about 80% of post 1 to come to the "Installing" section. Yes, it's a long post.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18430
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28378

Install them both.

I will write you a post about DLT and OOO later on. Yes, it is a little WB magic (no, no, it's totally low key).
I need to know though: What version of UOP 3.2.x are you using? You should get 3.2.4 hotfix done by Arthmoor, available from Texnexus
And did you install "Full OOO" (I would believe so) ?

Ok, then until later!

yes, i am very intreaged by the vanilla sized retexture pack. ive read the thread, it was quite long and i was tired, as soon as i reread and understand what files to get and install, i will hit it off

oh and yes, I use the hotfix (3.2.4) for UOP 3.2
and yes, full OOO install

Just wanted to comment this a bit more, as it seems to be a common misunderstanding (which is also why Delte unfortunately still lists TVWD as preferred VWD mod in his thread).

TVWD shows a relatively small FPS hit because it only adds VWD meshes for a small subset of the object types. Ex: it adds for Ayleid ruins and forts, but not for Ayleid well, Shrines or Daedric statues.

RAEVWD adds VWD meshes for all of those and much more - however, RAEVWD comes with each type in a separate subfolder, so it is easy to install only the object types you deem necessary. So if you choose to install only for the same types as TVWD adds, you will get better results than with TVWD because RAEVWD's meshes are optimized while TVWD's meshes are not. The problem is that most players just install the whole batch and then complain.

Personally, I have the entire RAEVWD installed, but I also have edited the ini file to reduce the distance that the distant objects are visible, and use Streamline to add fog at this distance instead. Great for immersion and not so bad for the framerate.


Also, may I suggest that you exchange Living Economy for my Enhanced Economy. Not a big difference performance-vice (though LE stresses your PC a bit when you come close to a merchant while EE waits until you activate the merchant), but EE is generally more compatible with other mods (including OOO and the other FCOM mods) and have tons of other options that LE lacks.

hmm alright, then I guess I will look into RAEVWD again. I REALLY would like to see ayleid forts and ruins from further away...

hmm enhanced economy... i am quite happy with living economy and it came bundled with OOO. but if yours is better and since its compatible then Ill have a look at it...

btw, I see you made map markers overhaul. thanks, great mod, using it

OK great, that's good then.

Here is the procedure:

- Open Wrye Bash, go to the "Mod" tab where it lists all your mods
- Mark / single-click the UOP 3.2 .esp and look to the bottom window on the right-hand side of the WB window: There should be the section of Tags: Look there if there is written "Script" or "Scripts" tag. You may need to scroll down the window to see everything. If there is the "Script" tag, fine! Next:
- Repeat this procedure for the Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp. Is there a "Scripts" tag? Probably not. But that's normal. Now we add a "Script" tag there for OOO.esp:
- Right-click in the tags window/section: A list with tags should open up. Select "Scripts". Close the list. Does it now also show "Scripts" as a tag? Good.
- Now you rebuild the Bash Patch:
- Say Rebuild and look at the selections. Is "Import Skripts" selected? If so fine, if not, select it now.
- In there, whatever there may be selected already, if anything, make sure to select "Unofficial Oblivion Patch" AND "Oscuro's_O_O. esp
This will import the scripts from UOP and OOO (and whatever other scripts that may be selected) which is what we need to have.
- Do Rebuild the patch now.
- Finished.

For testing, disable the separate version of DLT you presently installed. Now, DLT should work normally again. I had exactly the same issue, and basically importing scripts from UOP.esp AND OOO.esp did the trick. This was also recommended by Arthmoor and Corepc. We discussed it about 2 or three weeks ago. It's just I cannot find the thread anymore. I think it was in Wrye Bash thread.

Let me know if this works for you.

oh thanks... but (did i not mention it somewhere before) I did add the scripts tag to OOO and rebuild the patch and kicked the standalone dlt mod and it works. wasnt even neccesary to do it with the uop. maybe i should have emphasized that stronger so you did not go through all the trouble with that long explanation...

any benefits adding scripts to uop and bashing again?



right, there is a small issue... there is one plant that seems unaffected by harvest containers. forgott the name, they are yellow flowers and give nectar i believe... but i guess its nothing i can fix with bashing patches


edit:
- installed raevwd with only ruins and statues... when runnign around outside, it dips below 20 but so far i think it is playable but it might be deinstalled again if not
- visited thar ruin again that had so bad fps before... frames dropped well below 20. maybe its this special ruin with many many humanoid enemies. i hope it wont stay that way for other dungeons

- any have information about the compatiblity of unique landscapes with a heavy modified game/FCOM - or shall I just install them, BOSS and see what happens?

Yeah... another wasted 10min of my life, big deal...

No problem!

But do I understand you correctly: You DO NOT import scripts from the UOP.esp? Because if you don't, you should! That's what Arthmoor said back then. But maybe I just misunderstood you. Then disregard.

Rereading your reply: DLT will work with removed script tags from both UOP and OOO. But this is not recommended by Arthmoor.

Or, you import scripts from both UOP and OOO. That's what I do and that works well and was approved by Arthmoor.

Importing scripts from OOO but not importing from UOP will make DLT work, but I would say is also not recommended, because Arthmoor said the scripts tag on UOP really does serve a purpose and therefore should be imported in Bash Patch.

Case closed!

yeah case closed, stupid me. i did not see/know that the UOP comes with scripts tagged. so actually I do have the tag and already did bash it into the patch....

oh and i looked into enhanced economy but i think ill stay with the other one since it does what I want to and the additional features I dont think I'd like to have/need... thanks anyway

I did benchmarks for a school project using my new system compared to my old. They might prove useful with your framerate problem.

Oblivion – Tutorial sewers and outside to the Vilverin ruins, approx. 5 minutes of play
Old PC - C2D E6600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2GB 533Mhz DDR2, Nvidia 7950GT 512MB
Max Settings: All High, maxed sliders, and On. Forced 4x AA with HDR on. 16x AF.
FPS: 0, 47.75, 134

New PC - i5 750 @ 2.67Ghz, 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3, ATI 5850 1GB @ 725 core and 1000 memory
Max Settings: Same as above with 8x AA.
FPS: 8, 87.05, 264

Overclocked PC - i5 750 @ 4Ghz, 4GB 1600Mhz DDR3, 5850 @ 950 core and 1250 memory
Max Settings: Same as above with 8x AA.
FPS: 1, 65.68, 207

What you should take from this:

If you can't play the game without mods at max settings then something is wrong. My 7950 can do it surprisingly well. However, don't expect Oblivion to bend to the will of your 4870 without a fight. Performance is so variable it's ridiculous. 50% faster CPU and 30% faster GPU actually decreased performance by 25%. I swear it has less to do with hardware and more to do with how Oblivion's feeling that day.

Something I've discovered is grass kills performance with AA on. My overclocked system was getting 15 FPS completely unmodded in a field near Anvil all because I had 8x AA on. Dropping it to 4x brought me up to the mid-20s. Turning grass off completely shot me up into the 60s. I strongly suggest you get LowTriPoly Grass if you haven't yet. Setting it to Short (which I like more than vanilla's long) and a reduction level of 2 (which looks as good as default at an angle, better than LowPoly from above) gave me 40 FPS at 4x AA. Nearly tripled over vanilla. If you're getting 10 FPS right outside of the sewers it won't help there, so there's something else.

My old PC ran FCOM + QTP3R (further reduced, not regular) with I think it was 1024x1024 LOD textures and normals pretty well, usually around 20 FPS in the wilderness and a decent enough 10-15 in Better Cities. That's without AA and only 4x AF though, and no grass. My new one's cruising along at 30 in the wilderness and 15-20 in BC with 4096x4096 textures and normals, regular QTP3R, Enhanced Vegetation, and RAEVWD. Framerate dies whenever there's more than three NPCs on the screen doing their unoptimized RAI thing. Don't expect FCOM to treat your PC lightly if it renders NPCs anything like mine.

EDIT: Oh, and don't worry. The Overclocked benchmarks were a complete fluke. Overclocking does improve framerate by about 20%. I think in that benchmark I stared at grass a little too long. Although Oblivion is the ONLY game that will crash my whole system with my GPU at 950 core. It's also the only game that will crash my system when it's at 900, 850, 775, 725, and 545. I should probably figure out what's wrong before my system explodes.

FWIW, I'm a happy convert from Living Economy to Enhanced Economy. Yes the configuration is daunting, but I only changed the setting of price ranges (TheNiceOne is very helpful in providing help and suggestions for any .ini setting). So I did not fiddle much with EE, and it too does what it does.

The issue with Living Economy was that it has a bug in that it will not count skill gains by volume of transaction but (like vanilla) by number of transactions despite having an option that allows to use volume of transaction as the criteria. So to gain skills with LE, you have to sell those 100 iron arrows one-by-one, whereas EE can be based on volume-of-transaction and will actually make it work! So just some food for thought, especially if you like the concept of volume-based mercantile skill progression...

If you need to know more check out the EE thread. And TheNiceOne is really a very friendly, knowledgeable guy and a pleasure to deal with, so to say.

I have to +1 for Enhanced Economy, it gets rid of that ridiculous barter slider, just for that it's a must have in my opinion .

Those two won't have any performance impact and are generally recommended. They're both just replacements for the default files, but better.



I tested that one once and found that the performance impact was next to nothing.



You might want to check out Bomret's enhanced normals. He simply took the vanilla versions and added more detail to them. I don't like everything he did to them, but most of them are definitely an improvement over the original.

It doesn't even included all of the Forts and Ayleid ruins, only some of them. It's really quite limited as a VWD mod, and not at all optimized. He simply copied the original files and added _far.nif to them.

yes i get it, screw TVWD it svcks... but AEVWD (even with only a few options) pushes my fps from barely fun to play outside into the no fun in fights no more point so I just have to get along without ANY VWD mod unless i get a (much) more powerfull pc or rather gpu...

very well, since you praise enhanced economy so much ill exchange living with enhanced... but not now, later...

same goes for the vanilla size textures. still reading up on the thread, then ill start dl and installing them.

A PC more powerful than what you have now isn't going to change anything at this point. Upgrading hardware hits the wall of diminishing returns once you've reached the level you're at. Your system really should be able to handle QTP3-R + RAEVWD without much trouble. The fact that you're having to scale so many things back so far is an indication of some deeper problem to me. What that problem may be is not evident, but this game is very fickle and can turn on you like a rabid dog.

Also, remember my advice of editing the Oblivion.ini file in order to shorten the distance that VWD objects and trees are seen. That helps limiting the negative FPS impact, and you don't really need the fort on the side of the really, really far-away mountain to be seen anyway. If you couple this with Streamline's fog setting to cover that mountain in fog too, there will be no immersion-breaking pop-ups, and it even makes Cyrodiil seem bigger since you no longer can see the IC from Bruma, etc.

I think this combo is so vital for REAVWD that it should have a paragraph in REAVWD's readme (maybe it does?).