you mean like in heros quest/quest for glory 1? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NhELXn7ZxY&feature=related

Those games were awesome. Have you played the SVGA version of those games? Ultima and Wizardry used the keyword system as well.

i have the original version. unfortunately, for some reason every time i try to make him walk he takes about a step-and-a-half, then stops, takes another one, stops. takes another 1, stops...etc. and trying to do something by typing it takes about 10 seconds, then it starts to type it.

damn dosbox not workin right!

though daggerfall runs smoothly.

Daggerfall runs sort of choppy for me, at times. Inexplicably, Morrowind runs better at max specs. I can only assume this is an issue with Dosbox, itself. I tried messing with the frameskip and whatnot, but to no avail.

Ah, well. It's worth it. At its worst it runs better than Fallout 3 GOTY at its best.

I don't remember this, but it might be true, since I honestly can't remember, I will have to check that out, I seem to remember though, that you can ask about the location you're supposed to go to, and they will tell something about, particularly it's location (provided that it isn't one of the main cities), but then I can't remember if this is consistent with every quest.



the quest arrow is needlessly too helpful, I agree. Such a thing should have been implemented according to what difficulty you were playing on.



It makes sense since in order to be accepted as a full fledge member of the mages guild, and not just be an associate. I find that it is not as much a question of you being far-flung across the map from every new quest, because it's the same quest. The actual recommendations are just kind of subquests, you aren't told with every new quest what to do next, you're just told that you got the recommendation, because you already know that you need to get to all the mages guild leaders from the overall quest to get into the university.

I also find that the fighters guild thing is really just about where the trouble is, and what rank they need you to be in order to do a particular job.



2-3 quest at a single guild hall is not what I would call quite a while, this also really is a matter of how much time it takes you to do the particular quest, and although you take the quests from one guild leader, you're still being sent all over the place since the quests objective usually lies somewhere else entirely.



Sure the player jumps, but the character doesn't. I don't agree that this somehow turns of distance, because there are still places that you can't "jump" to, and you only have to not use fast travel to feel the distance of the world.

Yes, and it's unfortunate increasing the difficulty in games only increases enemy damage, not their competence or quest goals. If you could change these settings on the fly, the games would be better for it. Instead, they feel stale; relics. I hope the next game can out live its predecesors, but I only see that happening if it is as vibrant as the lore.

I hated Oblivion. When you level up so does everything else, so what's the point? And everything seemed so shallow and samey. I also felt the menus and invesntory svcked. Overall I wish I didn't bother buying it.

Having said that I loved Fallout 3! It had a more hand crafted feel, like someonw actually put some work into designing it. Not everything leveled up with you, so there was a point to leveling and for a while you feel like you can make a type of character, like a sneaky dude or a terminater kind of dude. In the end I maxed everything, though, and this just lasted a few levels. Also it was still too small and did not have enough veriety in the places you can go.

But compared to Morrowind Fallout 3 was titchy. Other than from Moira you dont really get that much missions. In Morrowind you can play as a thief in the thieves guild and get the same amount of missions Moira gives you. Maybe more. Then you can go back and play a fighter in the fighter guild and get the same amount of missions again. Then theres the temple, the imperial legion, the mage guild, the imperial cult, the three great houses the twin lamps and the morag tong. And there are different places like ashlands, bitter coast, red mountain and stuff.

OK, I got to admid the graphics are out of date now, but I still like Morrowind a lot more than Oblivion.

Explain the leveling?

I'm going to quote a guy from another forum, as he writes better than me. Is that allowed here?


'Half the fun of an RPG to me is leveling up, coming across a beastie that you previously avoided with dread, and taking him on. A feeling that with a lot of hard work, doing side quests and gaining experience that you've finally got what it takes to kill said beastie. Or the feeling that you've just stumbled into something that is way out of your league. Where's the fun if it takes the same effort to kill a wolf as it does a shadowbeast, reguardless what level you are?

Now lets take a look at Oblivion. I've cut my way through the Arena to the rank of Grand Champion, and as one might think, fairly big achievement, right? Well, as it turns out, I come across a Goblin on a quest, the very same kind of enemy I remember thrashing in the introductionary section where my character is just starting off as a weakling. What happens? My big heroic basher doesn't exactly cut through him with ease as he should, it takes a bit of doing to kill this Goblin... Remarkably the same amount of effort it took to kill the same beastie when I first started off. Yawn.

Great, so you're level 30? Well my level 1 peon can chop through the game as easily as you can, so there! Where in god's name is the sense of acheivement in that? What's the point in putting hard work into leveling up, if you're going to walk down a road at level 40, and be set on by a wolf that just happens to be 40 times as ferocious as a wolf you killed when you were level 1?

It feels as though the gameplay is stuck in limbo! I'd like to be able to be in a situation where I'll get seven shades of **** kicked out of me in a matter of seconds, or be in a situation where I can slice through the ranks of beasts with ease. Some variety in the name of all that is holy! Please! As it is, it's pure tedium... Every encounter, reguardless of your level, is tailored so it'll be just the exact same amount of a challenge, no more, and no less.

In all effectiveness, level scaling means:

No matter what level you are, every encounter is the same.
No matter how many different beasts are in the game, every encounter is the same.
No matter what equipment you've got, every encounter is the same.
No matter what variables there are, it all adds up to total and all-encompassing tedium.
1 + 1 = 2
2 + 5 = 2
47 x 1204 = 2'

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054912926

Final Fantasy games from the titles I played, not sure if all do. I don't feel like being level 30 and when I see a bandit and kill him in 1 hit because he still level 1. I am glad games do this.

I ahve a hard time choosing between the two. I know that I played Morrowind far longer then I played Oblivion, but I still played Oblivion hundreds of hours. I like each or different reasons, but I do like both of them.

Yeah, that about sums it up. it should clear up any sense of denial about the whole thing.

I read a bit about how it's optional to do things the easy way or do things the right way in this thread. I would like to remind some people that gaming wasn't always like this. Beating a game was a badge of honor. Especially some of these difficult RPGs. I bet everyone here who has tried to beat Oblivion, has. However I'm willing to bet that not even 25% of those who have tried to beat Daggerfall has. Now us veteran gamers see all of these people acting like they're amazing and their characters are perfect. Now this doesn't happen much on here mind you. Not that I've seen. But go anywhere else such as YouTube and nonofficial forums on the web and all you see are punks who think they're amazing.

In short, to us older gamers we see games getting easier and it's making us realize that gaming isn't the same any more. No longer can we pick up a game, be challenged, and be one of the few that's been able to conquer the game. Heck, in Morrowind you could stack potions until you could beat Dagoth Ur at level 1. And Oblivion you can enchant yourself with 100% Chameleon and never be seen by the enemies. And that's not to mention the dumbed down gameplay and world.

Now I'm not saying all of this is horrible and that gamers today aren't as good as gamers in the early/mid 90's. But many of us older gamers are looking at these new games knowing we'll never have the old games again. To me personally, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Morrowind, BioShock, ect... are all novice games that show no signs of going away. I have fun playing them, but they're nothing like what I crave for.

Between the two I would take Morrowind all day.

^ Best post of the thread.

Overall, between the two of them, Morrowind is my favorite.

Only things better in Oblivion are combat, magic recharges and graphics. I prefer almost everything else in Morrowind. Much more depth, more meaningful decisions (such as guild conflicts - joining some means you can't join another, some you can only complete a certain path without conflicts, etc.), more weapons and armor types, much more dialogue/lore, better spells, more replay value.

In some cases, you can ask about the location in dialogue. For example, the Skingrad Recommendation Quest allows you to ask about Bleak Flats Cave, and you are actually told it's northwest of Skingrad. However, in the case of this particular quest, the journal doesn't record "northest;" it records "west." And not to mention, northwest is nowhere near specific enough as a direction. There are lots of things northwest of Skingrad. The tips of the Surille Vineyards are NW of Skingrad. The Imperial Reserve is NW of Skingrad. Hammerfell is NW of Skingrad. And while, yes, you will eventually find it... pointing in a given direction (one that can easily encompass around 45 degrees of uncertainty), not specifying any distance, and being told, "It's somewhere that way" is even worse than the worst of Morrowind's directions.

Of course, it makes up for it by plotting on your map and providing a quest-arrow. And I can think of no more quests that provide even the pseudo-directions that this one does.


It makes sense only if you assume that the in-game guild policy of recommendations is infallable and is not under the influence of the Oblivion fast-travel design decisions. Daggerfall allowed you to work for extended (if not indefinite) periods of time from the same city. Morrowind allowed you to work for significant amounts of time in the same city. Traven's newfound recommendation policy is the newcomer, and there's really only one question to be had here:

Does the situation prompt the mechanics, or do the mechanics prompt the situation? Was the decision to create this style of recommendation policy set in stone before the consideration of free de-limited fast travel, or did the decision to use free de-limited fast travel lead to the consideration of the recommendation policy? I am severely inclined to believe the latter, that the decision to incorporate such a recommendation policy was affected by the FT mechanics. Why? Because core mechanics such as FT are the first things to be ironed out in concept for the game. Things like quest design and what-not come much later. The use of free de-limited fast travel paved the way for such a complimentary recommendation system to be used. Therefore, leaning on the recommendation system as an explanation sadly does nothing.

And the "it's the same quest" argument doesn't hold up. Let alone the technical distinction that each recommendation is actually its own quest with its own unique quest ID. You may be working towards one larger goal, but saying the recommendation quests are the same quest overall is like saying that stopping Dagoth Ur was one quest overall.


Same thing as above, like the MG recommendation policy. Do the spred-out FG quests prompt the mechanics, or do the mechanics prompt the spread-out FG quests?


2 to 3 quests? Pardon me whilst I don my monocole and reach for ye olde Morrowind Prophecies:
Ahem.

Ald'ruhn Mages Guild: 9 quests.
Balmora Mages Guild (Ajira): 7 quests.
Balmora Mages Guild (Ranis): 6 quests.
Wolverine Hall Mages Guild: 6 quests.
Vivec Mages Guild: 4 quests.
Total: 32 quests.

Compared to the 1 quest per city in Oblivion and the 13 quests in the Arcane University.
Do quests in Oblivion have more depth? It's incredibly debatable. Unless Bethesda wants to go the way of a Bioware RPG (and even then), the Oblivion quests are pretty much the same Morrowind Fed-ex quests with some pretentious dressing.

And I must regretfully tell you that you are incorrect regarding getting sent all over the place anyway due to quest objectives being all over the place. For the Mages Guild in Morrowind, the earliest quests you can receive from quest givers either (1) stay local, or (2) send you to a city to where you can pay to travel (an option that Oblivion undercut by using free de-limited fast travel).
To take Balmora's quests as an example:
1st quest: Mushroom picking. Done in the bitter coast region, a small little jaunt from Balmora.
2nd quest: Sabotage. Done without even leaving the guildhall.
3rd quest: Flower picking: Done by the shores of Lake Amaya, a bit further than the Bitter Coast yet still close to Balmora.
4rd quest: Stolen report. Also done without even leaving the guildhall.
5th/6th quest: Join us and Pay Dues: Done in the westward Molag Amur regions. Farther than the Bitter Coast and Lake Amaya, but still not sending you out to the Sheogorad region.

As you can see, the quests have a distance progression that contributes to their ease. So while it's true that you may be crossing 3/4 of the map when you start tackling the more serious quests, when you first start out, you are kept close for your safety and for your ease of completion. And while you can either pay to travel or walk to another quest-giving city to get quests there if you so choose, it is by no means required of you. This is what Oblivion so utterly lacks.


It turns off distance, because you the player can shut off distance at your whims. The fact that, in-world, the character doesn't shut off distance is irrelevant. To use an example, you the player do not use the restroom for your character. We can assume that the denizens of Nirn, however, are not without bodily waste functions. That said, you the player have no experience whatsoever of your character's activities. Why? 1) There are no mechanics in place for it. 2) There are no (and have never been) devices synonymous with it (such as bathrooms). While there are sewers, it's unclear what purpose they serve, because there are no contributing sources from houses.

So while we can most certainly infer that the characters do in fact spend long hours walking from place to place, it doesn't change the fact that distance is being shut off. Just as inferring that bathrooms surely exist in the ES universe doesn't change the fact that you can't explore one in the game.

As for the "you have to walk there once" argument, that is no excuse. If you have fulfilled the condition of walking there once, then beyond that point, you thereafter have the ability to turn distance off at a whim regarding that location, and for every other location you wish to travel from or to. And the "from" part is an especially important point that I would like to elaborate on. Most people hold up the "to" qualifications (you have to walk there first) to point out limitations, without ever considering the "from." It remains that, with just one map-marker on my screen (nevermind that the game gives me several for each city from the word "go"), I can fast travel FROM anywhere at all on my exterior map. Completely unlimited ability to turn distance off.

For the sake of me finding anything you say even a tiny bit valuable in the future, I will forget this comment.

One question: How many times has this been asked?
Lolz
IMO: Morrowind is 100 times better than Oblivion. So much more content....
I feel like I play the character more in Morrowind than Oblivion; Oblivion is just a bit.. lacking for me.
I've played Morrowind for around 4 years or so, off and on, and I still have not completed every quest.
With Oblivion, I've played through it a ton of times, theres hardly as many factions, and, it seems to be the same thing everytime I run through.
Another thing I hate about Oblivion is fast travel.. it completely ruins the game.

[censored] this whole thread, Morrowind goty is what, 15 us dollars? Just go for it.

I don't think it matters which one is better. They are both excellent. An RPG fan who likes Oblivion would most likely like Morrowind. It's a cheap game, so I would say just buy it. Get Daggerfall and Arena for free off of Bethesda's official website as well and you have all 4 main Elder Scrolls games.

If I'm to be honest, I liked both games. However, I definitely prefer Morrowind. In fact, if I were to compare them side-by-side, Morrowind would win by a landslide for all of the reasons given in previous posts. Oblivion was entertaining for the first 200 hours or so. I might even say that it was fun. But, eventually I got bored with it and went back to playing Morrowind. After investing so much time in Oblivion, I realized that there was just something missing. I had such high expectations after playing Morrowind, and Oblivion just failed to deliver on those expectations. Thus far, I haven't gotten bored of Morrowind. To this day, I can still find things that I haven't discovered during my (three) previous play-throughs. And, for the record, I've been playing Morrowind off and on since late 2003. I recently got Morrowind for the pc (I had played exclusively on x-box before), and I have to say, mods do a wonderful job of extending Morrowinds' playability.

This is completely wrong...

Both the player and the character jump. Quick Travel is a Slow Teleport spell(In that it takes time only). You are not put into any danger by quick jumping somewhere. Try walking there instead and see how often you need to fight along the way. I'd guess it is a bit larger than 0 times.

It's no more a slow teleport than silt striders, and boats. Danger is irrelevant, realistic, but irrelevant.

The difference being:

Traveling via a silt strider, boat, or other legitimate transport method infers significantly more safety than walking. As a business measure, those who provide travel services are going to cram lots of travelers together for efficient profiteering, and they're going to hire guards to protect themselves. Safety in numbers, and safety in weapons.
Walking affords no safety in numbers, and the only safety in weapons it affords are the ones you happen to be carrying at the time.

Is that to say that it is completely implausible for someone to attack a transport? No. So not being attacked while on a transport does stretch believability. However, simulation-walking all over a province and not getting attacked stretches believability exponentially as compared to not getting attacked on a transport.

I took a taxi from one side of Los Angeles to the other and wasn't attacked.

I walked from one side of Los Angeles to the other side and wasn't attacked.

Which is more believable?