[Rachael Williams]

This is going to be a rather strange bug fix.

What I did:

1. I checked to see if ObXp was checked in the Oblivion Data Files menus as well as the OBMM menu. Apparently no (though I realized later this was because I had turned it off for debugging purposes in OBMM).
2. I checked the box.
3. I realized that I checked the box for the OLD ObXP which was still in the folder.
4. I activate the new OMOD again (realizing that I had turned off earlier while responding to instructions in your previous post).
5. It overwrites all of the old ObXp's data files and *poof* it works again.

Ok, so it sounds like you're back up and running again. As I said, as you install more mods, just keep an eye and if you have a mod that wants to replace menus. I would create omod's out of all your mods and allow OBMM to warn you of conflicts. That way if you have something that wants to replace menus, you'll know. I would let the mod go ahead and replace the menus, but uninstall and reinstall Ob XP afterwards. You don't have to load a saved game or anything. Just do the uninstall, exit OBMM, open OBMM again and re-install. This will ensure Ob XP always has its menus in place. You need to exit OBMM after uninstalling something because often OBMM won't remove all the files until you exit the program.

[Jon O]

Yes, thanks for all the info. Ok, firstly, the training sessions were seriously broken and I fixed that bug in 4.1.7. I would actually suggest you upgrade to 4.1.7a just so that you are on the most recent version. There is a bug in the 4.1.7 package which did cause a problem for one player, so I'd suggest upgrading. You might see something odd with the new code, but the training sessions work fine. You might see something like 22/0 for the training sessions available. This just means you've used up all your training sessions. It will straighten itself out when you level again.

Ok, I will try that. However, since it's not really a huge issue for me at the moment, I'll probably wait until after helping to narrow down the misc experience issue, especially considering what I'll likely have to do to reproduce it more consistently (more on that in a second). I usually avoid alpha releases until they have been out for a while, but I'll take your word for it in this case and upgrade.

In terms of levelling up, do you mean you don't get the text that says "Click to level up" next to the Level label in the character menu anymore? The experience bar doesn't change (other than filling up), but the text next to the Level label should. Now the actual text change is controlled by script, so there might be a bit of an issue in there somewhere. Usually these kinds of problems are the result of either not installing Oblivion XP properly or installing another mod that changes the character menu after having installed Oblivion XP. I don't think either is the case here because everything else is working. However upgrading to 4.1.7a would fix any menu issues. Just use OBMM to create an omod and install this, please Unless you know enough about how Oblivion's menus work to get this installed properly without

Yes, that's what I'm saying, sorry about the muddled description (it's been a while since I have actually seen it). To give you a bit of background, I picked up Oblivion again about a month ago after a 4 month hiatus (I do that often). I wanted to try out some new mods, Martegan's being chief among them. More specifically, I added MMM, Stealth Overhaul, Thief's Arsenal, Realistic Ragdolls, and Unlimited Rings. So, when I say it was "working before," I am actually referring to my play through prior to that last hiatus. I know one of those mods is likely causing the problem, it just hasn't really been enough of an issue for me to try and narrow down before now. On a related note, I am almost positive I was using DarkUI'd DarN with my last play through, but now that I think about it,I am not 100% certain. In any case, I do use OMOD versions whenever I can (OBMM just makes everything easier), and I did select the correct UI option when prompted, so I don't think the installed is borked, either (but I am not above admitting it's always a possibility).

Oh, and one more thing. Since they all seem to touch the same XML files for the interface (at least, that's what OBMM tells me), I enable DarkUI'd DarN, then Oblivion XP, and then MiniMap (in that order), since the MiniMap OMOD specifically asks if I have ObXP and DarkUI'd DarN installed when I enable it. I suspect that one may be the culprit, but I am not well versed enough with the XML schema for the interface files (read: at all) to know what to look for. However, if there is a file you want me post, or something specific you want me to look for, I will be more than happy to oblige.

Ok, now the infamous no XP from miscellaneous tasks. I have long suspected that MMM is the culprit. Unfortunately I don't know what it is about MMM that could cause the problem... The miscellaneous stats script uses a lot of misc. stats to determine when you should get points for stuff, so perhaps MMM does something to the misc. stats. Maybe it's just an odd resourcing or timing issue - as I said I really don't know. However this does help me narrow it down and I can load up MMM at some point and see if I can find anything.

It seems to be related to killing things in my case. When I was using 4.1.5 (which was much more predictable about breaking), it only seemed to happen after I killed something. If I was just running around the city, breaking into houses, or running around discovering new places, everything would seem to work just fine. However, the second I killed something, all of my misc experience gains stopped. Once it did happen, it almost felt like the misc script just stopped running altogether. I suspected this mostly because even exiting out to the main menu didn't help at all, and I know that doing that had a tendency to reinitialize script variables and force cell reloads.

Just to clarify,my reasoning for thinking that it's kills is due to the way I play. Basically, I do things in "activity blocks" when I am playing. Specifically, most of my activities in the game fall into four basic groups (which I do almost exclusively for large stretches at a time): ransacking houses for Independent Thievery, exploring, dungeon crawl, or questing. Now, when I do a dungeon, I pretty much don't do anything else until I cleared out the dungeon first. I also tend to do a random combination of these "activity blocks" (e.g. ransacking > questing > ransackling > dungeon > questing > exploring), and what I started to notice is that any activities I would do after a dungeon crawl stopped registering experience points, unless it was killing something. If I stuck to just ransacking, exploring, or questing, everything would work fine (which is where I got my idea for the formal tests).

Now I will mention that you will only get the XP for finding a new location if the game detects that you've found a new location! I've had this happen in my game as well. For some reason, Oblivion itself just doesn't detect that you've found a new location. It adds the map marker, but you don't get the "Found blah blah" message. If you don't get that message, then the miscellaneous stat doesn't get updated and Ob XP can't award any points. However in your case, it sounded like Oblivion detected the new location just fine. When MMM was enabled in your test, did you get the message about finding the location?

Yes, in all of my tests, I always got the "Found Malaceth's Shrine" text in the upper right. Next time I encounter the issues, though, I will check the variables you described and let you know. As far as other misc actions go, I pretty much have the default INI settings (I've only upped the attributePointsPerLevel value from 13 to 15, and messageLogAutoHide to 0), which I think enables all of the misc actions. I'm not one for eating ingredients, but I do pick locks and read books/scrolls a lot, and I can say that none of them were working either once the issue manifested itself. I can also say that picking Nirnroot wasn't working, either. The only experience I could get from that point forward was from killing things. None of the other actions - specifically, picking locks, reading books, picking Nirnroot, or fame/infamy gains - seemed to register. I didn't try any of the other actions (I don't really like to bother with alchemy anyway), however now that I am a higher level and relying on enchanted weapons, I can add soul capturing to my list of actions to watch.

Now, as far reproducing the issue goes, I think I may need to downgrade actually, since 4.1.5 seemed the most consistent in manifesting the issue. For better or for worse, whatever changes were made in 4.1.6 and 4.1.7 seem to have made the number of kills more random, although I am almost guaranteed to see the issue after clearing out a large dungeon, most of the time. Conversely, the issue seemed to come up in 4.1.5 even after the first kill. However, I am not sure how much using 4.1.5 as a test bench will help you, since I am not sure how different the code bases are. Just let me know what you would like me to do (i.e. downgrade, or use the latest and wait for the issue to manifest).

I am also not above getting my hands dirty with the construction set. I am not that familiar with scripting, but being a programmer, I'm sure it won't be too hard for me to get up to speed (at least enough to read the code). However, I do not currently have it installed, and I just want to make sure before I install it that it won't do anything to make the issue disappear (especially considering how hard it appears to be to reproduce in the first place). I know most people would be happy if that did make it go away, but quite frankly, the programming side of me would be too annoyed with leaving a problem like that unsolved. :laugh:

---

EDIT 1: It appears I may be a big, fat liar. According to my archive folder, it seems I am running version 4.1.7a already. Is the initialization message supposed to show 4.1.7a, or does it still show 4.1.7? Is there another way to verify the version?

EDIT 2: I just realized I misspoke in my original post. I did have to exit the game to reset between each test. Otherwise, once the issue manifested, I would no longer get misc experience, regardless of how many times I reloaded a prior save. However, everything else I described about my testing experience is accurate.

[Natasha Callaghan]

Ok, I have that data for you - and an unexpected clue to the cause. But first, the data.

I loaded up the Gnome first, and let a Marauder tickle me with a knife for a couple hits, then console-killed it:
Current Health: 61.73
Base health: 66.00
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00

Then I loaded my most recent Night Elf character, and resurrected a Bandit to attack me. I killed it in the normal fashion, with a two-handed sword:
Current Health: 73.90
Base health: 90.00
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00
Current Health periodically increased by 1 whole number until it reached 90.00

I then decided to the characters' stats. I first recorded the Night Elf's stats:
Strength 45 | Intelligence 45 | Willpower 20 | Agility 65 | Speed 45 | Endurance 45 | Personality 30 | Luck 65
Then I recorded the Gnome's stats:
Strength 25 (drained due to a disease) | Intelligence 65 | Willpower 36 | Agility 40 | Speed 50 | Endurance 30 | Personality 40 | Luck 65

As a final test, I used the setav command to set the Gnome's Endurance to 100 and re-ran the first test. I had to let the Marauder attack me a little longer to see a dent in the Gnome's health, and then I killed it with fire.
Current Health: 215
Base health: 220
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00
And this time, the value for CurrentHealth started to rise - my character's health was regenerating. So it's safe to assume that this is related to the Endurance stat rather than the character's size, and that the size of the character is simply a correlating but unrelated statistic.

Here's the starting Endurance for each of the races I listed in my first post:
Kaldorei race: 45 for both male and female
Cobl Hidden Elf (Mystic elf): 40 for male 35 for female
Ohmes race: 40 for both male and female
Succubus race: 30 for both male and female
Gnome race: 30 for both male and female
Edit: Faerie race: 20

Ok I think I have the right characters' stats that I used for testing. Here's the Endurance values for each of my characters I used for testing:
Kaldorei race: 45
Cobl Hidden Elf: 35
Ohmes: 45
Succubus: 30
Gnome: 30
Faerie: 20

With all this data it seems obvious that the regen kicks in somewhere between 30 and 35 Endurance. The question remains, why does it stop working at lower values?

I should go back and see what the actual stats are for each of the characters I listed, but I don't remember which ones they were since I only listed stats, not names.

Edit 2: I increased my Gnome's health to 35 at levelup and the regen kicked in as expected. It was just an odd coincidence about the character's size, since that correlated, not perfectly and not quite by accident, with Endurance.

[Emily Graham]

Ok, so I have done some more testing, and I have a couple of updates (I was still using a 4.1.7 version, possibly 4.1.7a).

First, I have an embarassing mistake to admit. For some reason, I had in my head that my experience bar in the inventory stats menu was supposed to turn into a "Click to Level Up" button, so I never looked next to the "Level" field right above it (compounded by the fact I am still somewhat new to the layout of the DarkUI'd DarN stat screens). So, bottom line is I feel like a total moron (mostly for the times I waited to level up because I wasn't near a bed), and the "Click to Level Up" shows up as it should, where it should. Although, it's nice to know I can still level up by sleeping.

Second, after a couple hours of playing (in the middle of fighter's guild killing spree, I might add), I finally ran into the no misc experience issue (I can usually only get it to appear once or twice a night with the recent versions, 4.1.5 was much worse). So, I ran a test, and here were my results:

• Killed a bunch of monsters in Nonwyll Cavern for "The Master's Son" quest - got experience for all of them (including experience for kills by Viranus Donton). All the mobs were around level 30 or so.
  
• Performed a quicksave.
  
• Picked a hard lock - got experience, although it seemed to take a bit to register.
  
• Picked two more locks (easy and average) - no experience gain (this is when I noticed the issue).
  
• Ran "getPCMiscStat 7" in the console - got "Player misc stat value 242.00"
  
• Walked to Cloud Top.
  
• Got the "I found Cloud Top" prompt, along with a new map marker - no experience gain.
  
• Ran "getPCMiscStat 7" in the console - got "Player misc stat value 243.00"
  
• Killed two local monsters - didn't get experience for the first one (Hill Giant), but I did experience for the second one (another Hill Giant).
  
• Reloaded the quickgame (without restarting) and ran tests 3-8 again (I skipped the hill giants) - basically the same results, except I no longer got experience for picking the hard lock.
  
• Restarted the game and loaded the quicksave.
  
• Picked the same three locks - got experience for all of them.
  
• Ran "getPCMiscStat 7" in the console - got "Player misc stat value 242.00"
  
• Walked to Cloud Top.
  
• Got the "I found Cloud Top" prompt, along with a new map marker - got around 400 experience.
  
• Ran "getPCMiscStat 7" in the console - got "Player misc stat value 243.00"

Now, I did play with a couple of ad-hock tests related to those same three locks after the more formal test run, and I noticed something of (potential) interest. Basically, picking the easy lock first gave me the "clink" sound associated with experience gain almost immediately (i.e. as the container contents screen appeared). However, if I picked the hard lock first, the experience gain would not register for subsequent locks until after I closed the container contents screen. It could just be a coincidence (after I restarted the game, it didn't really seem to make a difference one way or the other, I still got experience), but I figure it might be worth mentioning.

[Klaire]

Ok, I have that data for you - and an unexpected clue to the cause. But first, the data.

I loaded up the Gnome first, and let a Marauder tickle me with a knife for a couple hits, then console-killed it:
Current Health: 61.73
Base health: 66.00
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00

Then I loaded my most recent Night Elf character, and resurrected a Bandit to attack me. I killed it in the normal fashion, with a two-handed sword:
Current Health: 73.90
Base health: 90.00
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00
Current Health periodically increased by 1 whole number until it reached 90.00

I then decided to the characters' stats. I first recorded the Night Elf's stats:
Strength 45 | Intelligence 45 | Willpower 20 | Agility 65 | Speed 45 | Endurance 45 | Personality 30 | Luck 65
Then I recorded the Gnome's stats:
Strength 25 (drained due to a disease) | Intelligence 65 | Willpower 36 | Agility 40 | Speed 50 | Endurance 30 | Personality 40 | Luck 65

As a final test, I used the setav command to set the Gnome's Endurance to 100 and re-ran the first test. I had to let the Marauder attack me a little longer to see a dent in the Gnome's health, and then I killed it with fire.
Current Health: 215
Base health: 220
Fortify Health: 0.00
Drain health: 0.00
And this time, the value for CurrentHealth started to rise - my character's health was regenerating. So it's safe to assume that this is related to the Endurance stat rather than the character's size, and that the size of the character is simply a correlating but unrelated statistic.

Here's the starting Endurance for each of the races I listed in my first post:
Kaldorei race: 45 for both male and female
Cobl Hidden Elf (Mystic elf): 40 for male 35 for female
Ohmes race: 40 for both male and female
Succubus race: 30 for both male and female
Gnome race: 30 for both male and female
Edit: Faerie race: 20

Ok I think I have the right characters' stats that I used for testing. Here's the Endurance values for each of my characters I used for testing:
Kaldorei race: 45
Cobl Hidden Elf: 35
Ohmes: 45
Succubus: 30
Gnome: 30
Faerie: 20

With all this data it seems obvious that the regen kicks in somewhere between 30 and 35 Endurance. The question remains, why does it stop working at lower values?

I should go back and see what the actual stats are for each of the characters I listed, but I don't remember which ones they were since I only listed stats, not names.

Edit 2: I increased my Gnome's health to 35 at levelup and the regen kicked in as expected. It was just an odd coincidence about the character's size, since that correlated, not perfectly and not quite by accident, with Endurance.

I found what the issue is. The health regen rate uses modAV2 to modify the health - modAV2 only takes the integer portion of the number, so the regen rate can only be whole numbers. It isn't the Endurance alone - it's a combination of Endurance and Willpower.

The rate of health regeneration is calculated as follows:

let tempFloat := ( ObXPSettings.healthReturnBase + ObXPSettings.healthReturnMult * ( player.getAV Willpower ) )

where healthReturnBase defaults to 0.75 and healthReturnMult defaults to 0.02, so with a low value for Willpower, this is going to be a small number. It's further impacted by the Base Health (so that's where Endurance would kick in as well) as follows:

let tempFloat := ( tempFloat * ( player.getBaseAV Health ) / 100 )

So your lowest value for Base Health was 66. That gnome only had a Willpower of 36, so his health regen rate would be 0.97. Because the script uses modAV2, this is zero. When you bumped the Endurance up to 35, the Base Health would be 70 or so and this was just enough to make the regen rate 1.03, which gets set to 1.

So you can increase the Endurance or Willpower. Your other option would be to increase the healthReturnBase or healthReturnMult values in the ini file. In order for health regeneration to actually kick in, that second calculation of tempFloat must be at least 1 (and notice that it uses the previous value of tempFloat).

If I was to rewrite the health regen calc in one line, it would be:

Health regen rate = ( ObXPSettings.healthReturnBase + ObXPSettings.healthReturnMult * ( player.getAV Willpower ) ) * ( player.getBaseAV Health ) / 100 )

That rate has to be at least 1 to get health regeneration.

[Christie Mitchell]

Javert93,

Ok, I'll try to sum up both your posts. Firstly, 4.1.7a isn't an alpha. It was just that there were so few changes that I didn't want to bump up the version number, but I did want to reflect a minor release. The only way to tell that you are actually running 4.1.7a is the name of the readme - it's called Oblivion XP Readme 4.1.7a.pdf and it should have been installed in your Data folder (OBMM can be difficult in terms of actually installing readme's).

It sounds like you resolved the UI issue. You installed things in the correct order and running Minimap with this isn't a problem - I ran it for a while too.

As we go through and test this, I would like to only consider the latest version. Basically I am going through and rewriting all of the scripts, so running previous versions won't help any. It is normal to have to exit all the way out to the desktop for things to reset. I don't know if you've ever run Open Cities or not, but if you reload a saved game without exiting to the desktop, the city doors won't work. Arthmoor is currently trying to correct this problem by seeing if new OBSE functions can be created to reset things. Basically the game engine doesn't reload everything unless you completely exit.

Alright, so your testing tells me that it is the miscellaneous script that is having trouble and not one of the other scripts involved in location discovery. I have already made a lot of changes to the killing script, so that might be part of the reason you find this problem doesn't crop up as much with the new version as it did previously. I do find some of the delays you're noticing interesting - it suggests things are chugging a bit. One of the things that I did in 4.1.7 is to rewrite the lockpicking part of the misc script. Basically SirFrederik's previous code didn't take the number of broken lockpicks into account like it was supposed to. If you break more than 5 lockpicks, you won't get any experience points This is configurable in the ini file, btw. Also, if you use the Skeleton Key, you won't get any experience points unless you change the setting in the ini file.

At this point I'm not sure how to proceed because I intend to completely scrap the kill script and rewrite it. This should improve performance. I'm wondering if the misc stats bug is really timing related. I don't know why though. I don't know what MMM could be doing that after killing a bunch of things, your system seems to bog down and the misc script effectively stops running.

There are a bunch of debugging statements in the misc script that I have commented out. If you would like to get in there a bit, you could load up the construction set. You'd need http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/The_Elder_Scrolls_Construction_Set. You'd have to start it up using OBSE, just like you do the game. Basically you would create a shortcut somewhere that calls obse_loader.exe -editor and that starts the CS with OBSE hooked in. You would also have to install http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26510. Load up version 8.0c (at the bottom of the files tab). I wasn't too happy with version 9 and I don't want to run OBSE 19 at this point (which is what ver. 9 requires). If you're already running OBSE 19, that's fine. I might still be inclined to stick with Conscribe 8 though.

So if you are interested in doing that, let me know and I'll give you a new version of the script with all the comments removed. You'd also have to turn on debugging in the ini file - right at the bottom. Warning: your system will really bog down with debugging turned on and the comments removed from the misc. script. I can run it fine, but I'm not running OOO and MMM, so I'm not sure how playable the game will be! But turning off debugging and reverting the script back would correct that soon enough.

[Nany Smith]

I found what the issue is. The health regen rate uses modAV2 to modify the health - modAV2 only takes the integer portion of the number, so the regen rate can only be whole numbers. It isn't the Endurance alone - it's a combination of Endurance and Willpower.

Would it be possible to put in a condition to check for a <1 value for the regen rate, and if the regen rate is less than 1, substitute 1 in place of the actual regen rate to pass to the ModAV2 function? I could probably look at the script and figure out for myself where to put that in.

More to the point, should I just wait for you to fix it? Anything I do to it will be overridden when I upgrade to whatever version comes after 4.1.7a

On a side note, if I hadn't been troubleshooting I would have left Endurance alone, but raised Willpower by 3. This would have also raised the regen rate above the threshold (to 1.0098) and thus it would have started working. Assuming 66 health, of course; does ObXP raise the health each level or is it a set value based on Endurance?

Edit: I decided to go ahead and take a crack at the conditional thing. Here's what I came up with; I placed a bit of code directly after the code that sets the value of tempFloat (middle segment is my addition):

	if ( player.getAV Health ) < ( player.getBaseAV Health + player.getTotalAEMagnitude FOHE + player.getTotalAEMagnitude DRHE )		let healthReturnTimer := ( healthReturnTimer + getSecondsPassed )		let tempFloat := ( tempFloat * ( player.getBaseAV Health ) / 100 )

		if tempFloat <1			set tempFloat to 1		endif

		if ( healthReturnTimer >= healthReturnTimerMult )			player.modAV2 Health tempFloat 			let healthReturnTimer := 0		endif	endif

[Isabella X]

Would it be possible to put in a condition to check for a >1 value for the regen rate, and if the regen rate is less than 1, substitute 1 in place of the actual regen rate to pass to the ModAV2 function? I could probably look at the script and figure out for myself where to put that in.

More to the point, should I just wait for you to fix it? Anything I do to it will be overridden when I upgrade to whatever version comes after 4.1.7a

On a side note, if I hadn't been troubleshooting I would have left Endurance alone, but raised Willpower by 3. This would have also raised the regen rate above the threshold (to 1.0098) and thus it would have started working. Assuming 66 health, of course; does ObXP raise the health each level or is it a set value based on Endurance?

Yes it raises the health each level. The health calculation is just above the section of code you added the debug statements to. It's actually a crazy calculation because you can choose to have your other attributes affect the health calculation - not sure about that decision and I might change that. So ignoring all the other attributes, the health calculation comes down to:

let tempFloat := ( player.getBaseAV Endurance) * ( player.getLevel - 1) * ( ObXPSettings.healthMultEnd )
let tempFloat := tempFloat + player.getTotalAEAbilityMagnitude FOHE Health

where healthMultEnd defaults to 0.1. Now apparently setAV includes Oblivion's default derived attribute calculation, so that calculation is only for the "bonus" above level 1. Basically at level 1, it's the default calculation (which is 2 times Endurance).

I'm trying to decide whether to fix the calculation or not. Once your Endurance or Willpower increase enough, the health regen will kick in. I'm just wondering if there should be a minimum threshold before regeneration kicks in, or if it was just an oversight on SirFred's part. I also wonder if changing it would override any drain health effects. It's at times like this that I wish SirFrederik was still around to get his reasoning on this. Let me chew on it some more.

[Margarita Diaz]

I was editing my post while you were posting. I don't think drain health will be broken by this, in my quick testing of my change, my character (a previous one, not the current one, to make sure it was one that was affected by the lack of regen) was hit with a Drain Health poison, and while the regen did kick in, it stopped before the bar was full - the amount reflected by the Drain effect. When the drain wore off, the health returned to full as expected. I did another test right afterwards without getting affected by the drain effect and it worked as well.

[Casey]

I was editing my post while you were posting. I don't think drain health will be broken by this, in my quick testing of my change, my character (a previous one, not the current one, to make sure it was one that was affected by the lack of regen) was hit with a Drain Health poison, and while the regen did kick in, it stopped before the bar was full - the amount reflected by the Drain effect. When the drain wore off, the health returned to full as expected. I did another test right afterwards without getting affected by the drain effect and it worked as well.

Ok. So I guess you would like to see a lower limit of 1 no matter what your Endurance or Willpower is?

[roxanna matoorah]

Just to give some more background, whenever I download a new mod, I create an OMOD out of it (if it isn't already packaged as one), and then I archive the OMOD in a versioned backup folder. I then delete the original download to conserve disk space (files are pretty minuscule, but I'm pretty overprotective about disk space, lol). That way, I have all of my mods/patches/add-ons backed up, so if things go kablooey, I can wipe and reinstall (or go back to a previous version) pretty easily. Unfortunately, it means I don't usually have the original zip file, but in this case OBMM loaded the readme alright, and I did indeed verify I'm running the latest (4.1.7a).

It sounds like you resolved the UI issue. You installed things in the correct order and running Minimap with this isn't a problem - I ran it for a while too.

Well, just to clarify, it turns out I never really had an issue with this, I was clueless and didn't look where I should have. :biggrin:

Alright, so your testing tells me that it is the miscellaneous script that is having trouble and not one of the other scripts involved in location discovery. I have already made a lot of changes to the killing script, so that might be part of the reason you find this problem doesn't crop up as much with the new version as it did previously. I do find some of the delays you're noticing interesting - it suggests things are chugging a bit. One of the things that I did in 4.1.7 is to rewrite the lockpicking part of the misc script. Basically SirFrederik's previous code didn't take the number of broken lockpicks into account like it was supposed to. If you break more than 5 lockpicks, you won't get any experience points This is configurable in the ini file, btw. Also, if you use the Skeleton Key, you won't get any experience points unless you change the setting in the ini file.

Yes, I am familiar with the lock pick limit. When I first started my game I thought it was broken until I went back and read the INI comments, lol. Funny thing is, I don't notice any type of slowdown in my game, even when I run into the issue (and Atmospheric Oblivion can be a killer sometimes). Also, I noticed that the time between lock picking and experience gain appears to be random. Sometimes I hear the "clink" right away, other times it's not until I close the container screen (but it's never any later than that, as long as misc experience is working). I also determined (since I'm still playing as we speak, lol), that the lock type doesn't truly matter. I went on a dungeon raid immediately after my post in Lipsand Tarn (lots of lock variety), and the time to experience gains seemed to be more random (some fast, others slower, any lock type). Also, just to let you know, I've specifically avoided getting the skeleton key this time around after reading the INI (although it doesn't really matter anyway, I have 243 lock picks, lol).

At this point I'm not sure how to proceed because I intend to completely scrap the kill script and rewrite it. This should improve performance. I'm wondering if the misc stats bug is really timing related. I don't know why though. I don't know what MMM could be doing that after killing a bunch of things, your system seems to bog down and the misc script effectively stops running.

I had thought about that, too. The only thing is, the game is still snappy when the bug occurs (no lag or anything). So all in all, even when I've got lots of animations going on, and probably about.15 or so characters on screen between all the enemies and summoned creatures, the game is still keeping up, and the experience gains are immediate (from kills, at least). Like I mentioned, it almost feels like something is causing the misc script to either deadlock or get blocked by something, like it's not even running at all. Plus, this condition will persist until I restart the game, even if I am pretty much sitting a cave with nothing going on (I once played for 4 hours early on before I realized I hadn't been getting all my experience gains for 3 hours of it), and although I don't know much about Oblivion scripting, I would theorize that if it was getting backed up, that at some point it should "catch up" if there is otherwise nothing happening. Please feel free to correct me if I am way off base or making an incorrect assumption. I'm just thinking in the context of C++ or C# at the moment.

There are a bunch of debugging statements in the misc script that I have commented out. If you would like to get in there a bit, you could load up the construction set. You'd need http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/The_Elder_Scrolls_Construction_Set. You'd have to start it up using OBSE, just like you do the game. Basically you would create a shortcut somewhere that calls obse_loader.exe -editor and that starts the CS with OBSE hooked in. You would also have to install http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26510. Load up version 8.0c (at the bottom of the files tab). I wasn't too happy with version 9 and I don't want to run OBSE 19 at this point (which is what ver. 9 requires). If you're already running OBSE 19, that's fine. I might still be inclined to stick with Conscribe 8 though.

Well, rest assured, I am still running OBSE v18. I tried upgrading to v19, but I found my game was much more unstable. I'm not sure if it had anything to do with OBSE, but it did seem to crash more often with it, so I rolled it back just to be safe. Things have been a lot better since, even though streamsave still crashes it on occassion (even though I am only using the auto save feature). Also, I think my computer is a bit of champ, so I think it might be able to handle debugging statements alright (although with Oblivion, you never know). I am currently running an i5 Quad Core with 8 GB of RAM (although Win7 makes that feel less impressive), and an nVidia GTX 470 with 1.25 GB of DDR5 VRAM. Plus, I only have my current Oblivion settings set to high (again, Atmospheric Oblivion), so I can always bump them down further if need be.

So, I will go ahead and download the CS (I'm assuming installing it won't really change anything), and we can go from there. I likely won't be doing any more testing until late tonight (I sleep mostly during the day from about noon or so until about 8:00 or 9:00), plus I've gotten pretty engrossed in the fighter's guild quests at the moment (I can't believe I've never done these, lol). However, I am ready to get my hands dirty. :celebration:

[Damien Mulvenna]

That would be fine if you could set it with SunRays, could even use that in the Caves with Rays shineing in. :rolleyes:
*Wrong Thread

[Sara Lee]

Just to give some more background, whenever I download a new mod, I create an OMOD out of it (if it isn't already packaged as one), and then I archive the OMOD in a versioned backup folder. I then delete the original download to conserve disk space (files are pretty minuscule, but I'm pretty overprotective about disk space, lol). That way, I have all of my mods/patches/add-ons backed up, so if things go kablooey, I can wipe and reinstall (or go back to a previous version) pretty easily. Unfortunately, it means I don't usually have the original zip file, but in this case OBMM loaded the readme alright, and I did indeed verify I'm running the latest (4.1.7a).

Well, just to clarify, it turns out I never really had an issue with this, I was clueless and didn't look where I should have. :biggrin:

Yes, I picked up on that, I just felt there was no reason to point out how you "resolved" the issue, only that you had "resolved" the issue :wink_smile:

Yes, I am familiar with the lock pick limit. When I first started my game I thought it was broken until I went back and read the INI comments, lol. Funny thing is, I don't notice any type of slowdown in my game, even when I run into the issue (and Atmospheric Oblivion can be a killer sometimes). Also, I noticed that the time between lock picking and experience gain appears to be random. Sometimes I hear the "clink" right away, other times it's not until I close the container screen (but it's never any later than that, as long as misc experience is working). I also determined (since I'm still playing as we speak, lol), that the lock type doesn't truly matter. I went on a dungeon raid immediately after my post in Lipsand Tarn (lots of lock variety), and the time to experience gains seemed to be more random (some fast, others slower, any lock type). Also, just to let you know, I've specifically avoided getting the skeleton key this time around after reading the INI (although it doesn't really matter anyway, I have 243 lock picks, lol).

I had thought about that, too. The only thing is, the game is still snappy when the bug occurs (no lag or anything). So all in all, even when I've got lots of animations going on, and probably about.15 or so characters on screen between all the enemies and summoned creatures, the game is still keeping up, and the experience gains are immediate (from kills, at least). Like I mentioned, it almost feels like something is causing the misc script to either deadlock or get blocked by something, like it's not even running at all. Plus, this condition will persist until I restart the game, even if I am pretty much sitting a cave with nothing going on (I once played for 4 hours early on before I realized I hadn't been getting all my experience gains for 3 hours of it), and although I don't know much about Oblivion scripting, I would theorize that if it was getting backed up, that at some point it should "catch up" if there is otherwise nothing happening. Please feel free to correct me if I am way off base or making an incorrect assumption. I'm just thinking in the context of C++ or C# at the moment.

Ok, it's not really lag then. I think if things are lagging behind, Oblivion will just grind to a halt until processing is finished. It's not multi-threaded or very good at memory management, so it can't play "catch-up". There are some mods or utiliites that try to address this issue, but there's only so much you can do after the fact.

Well, rest assured, I am still running OBSE v18. I tried upgrading to v19, but I found my game was much more unstable. I'm not sure if it had anything to do with OBSE, but it did seem to crash more often with it, so I rolled it back just to be safe. Things have been a lot better since, even though streamsave still crashes it on occassion (even though I am only using the auto save feature). Also, I think my computer is a bit of champ, so I think it might be able to handle debugging statements alright (although with Oblivion, you never know). I am currently running an i5 Quad Core with 8 GB of RAM (although Win7 makes that feel less impressive), and an nVidia GTX 470 with 1.25 GB of DDR5 VRAM. Plus, I only have my current Oblivion settings set to high (again, Atmospheric Oblivion), so I can always bump them down further if need be.

So, I will go ahead and download the CS (I'm assuming installing it won't really change anything), and we can go from there. I likely won't be doing any more testing until late tonight (I sleep mostly during the day from about noon or so until about 8:00 or 9:00), plus I've gotten pretty engrossed in the fighter's guild quests at the moment (I can't believe I've never done these, lol). However, I am ready to get my hands dirty. :celebration:

The original release of OBSE 19 final had a nasty bug in the code that caused some issues. I still keep seeing it crop up and it really screws up Oblivion XP. It wasn't just OBSE itself, it was in combination with a couple of mods. I suspect we haven't identified all the mods that have the problem because I'm still spending a lot of time convincing players that Ob XP is fine and they need to go through and try to find the culprit...

Ok, so go ahead and install the CS and Conscribe. I'll send the script along with instructions in a pm.

[sarah simon-rogaume]

Ok. So I guess you would like to see a lower limit of 1 no matter what your Endurance or Willpower is?

Well yeah, unless you can find a way to make the regen work with values lower than 1; that would be the ideal solution, but it sounds like that might be prohibitively complex. If the regen isn't working, that can cause confusion for some users.

Hmm...maybe you can increase the regen update to 5 seconds, that should make it nearly impossible to have stats low enough to prevent regen.

[neil slattery]

Well yeah, unless you can find a way to make the regen work with values lower than 1; that would be the ideal solution, but it sounds like that might be prohibitively complex. If the regen isn't working, that can cause confusion for some users.

Hmm...maybe you can increase the regen update to 5 seconds, that should make it nearly impossible to have stats low enough to prevent regen.

It's not particularly complex, I just don't think it's what SirFrederik intended and I'm inclined to agree. Even with the stats your characters had, once they gain one more level, health regen would kick in. Have you had this enabled with a high level character? I don't even run with it enabled anymore because once you start gaining levels, it completely negates the need for health potions or spells. I just think that the regeneration shouldn't kick in until your Endurance and/or Willpower are high enough.

But having said all that, I'm not sure it's really a big enough deal to worry about. It will only affect players in the first level or two, so I can put a check in to set it to 1 if it isn't - pretty much what you did earlier.

So I'll put the fix in for the next release.

[Verity Hurding]

Cool

Also had one other question. Is the player's current level supposed to show where it normally does without this mod? I'm using the default UI and when it's not time to level up, all I see there is the word "Level" without my character's actual level listed. Naturally at levelup time that changes to say "Click to Level Up", I was just wondering if this is normal or not for the actual level to not be displayed.

[Tamara Primo]

Cool

Also had one other question. Is the player's current level supposed to show where it normally does without this mod? I'm using the default UI and when it's not time to level up, all I see there is the word "Level" without my character's actual level listed. Naturally at levelup time that changes to say "Click to Level Up", I was just wondering if this is normal or not for the actual level to not be displayed.

Yup, that's a bug with vanilla and BTmod. I have fixed it already, but was hanging on to the fix until I had a few more to include. It will also be in the next release, which should be out shortly because I'm currently in the process of fixing another major bug

I have the instructions for fixing it yourself in the previous thread, but a new release should be out within a week, so you may just want to wait for that.

[Sara Lee]

4.1.8 has been released!

The "no experience from miscellaneous actions" bug has been zapped!! :celebration: A big thank you to Javert93 and kyoma for helping to track that bug down and figuring out a fix. That one took a while to find.

Oblivion XP has been repackaged as a BAIN ready install with OMOD conversion data for OBMM installation as well!

Also, dwip has created a patch for AFK_Weye, so I was able to remove the built in support - the plugin is getter smaller!

This release also includes the fix for vanilla/BTmod menus so that your character level is displayed properly and the training cost multiplier is now processed properly.

I have also merged SirFrederik's original readme into the new readme for the updated version so everything is in one file. I have also reorganized it so that the installation information is near the beginning. This file is called Oblivion XP Readme.odt, which is OpenDocument Text format. It will be intalled in your Data directory when you install the mod with OBMM. I'm not sure if BAIN installs readme files automatically or not I still don't use BAIN, so if there are any issues with the BAIN install, please let me know.

Now I will disappear for a bit and see if I can implement the changes to the amount you can increase your skills each level and have an escalating cost as you attain new levels of skill mastery. Since this involves changes to the menus, I will also see if I can overhaul the UI.

[Marion Geneste]

Thanks for the update andalaybay :icecream:

[OJY]

I'm having an odd problem with Oblivion XP. I just started a new run-through on a fresh install (Steam Version), and I can't seem to get XP to work. I've used it in the past, so I'm not too incompetent, but perhaps I'm overlooking something. I have all the essentials, and the only conflicting mod I have is Dark DarnUI. I'm using OBMM to create an OMOD from the archive, select the Dark DarnUI option, but no deal. The level bar at the bottom is blue, and my stats screen looks odd. Here are some screenshots:
[img]http://imgur.com/PwGOR.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fa01X.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/x6UHP.jpg[/IMG]

I can provide a load order or any other info you might need. Please help if you can. Standard leveling blows; I need Oblivion XP.

[neil slattery]

I'm having an odd problem with Oblivion XP. I just started a new run-through on a fresh install (Steam Version), and I can't seem to get XP to work. I've used it in the past, so I'm not too incompetent, but perhaps I'm overlooking something. I have all the essentials, and the only conflicting mod I have is Dark DarnUI. I'm using OBMM to create an OMOD from the archive, select the Dark DarnUI option, but no deal. The level bar at the bottom is blue, and my stats screen looks odd. Here are some screenshots:
[img]http://imgur.com/PwGOR.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fa01X.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/x6UHP.jpg[/IMG]

I can provide a load order or any other info you might need. Please help if you can. Standard leveling blows; I need Oblivion XP.

After creating the omod, did you double-click on it to actually install and enable Ob XP? I had some trouble with OBMM once - it basically got itself all confused. It appeared that it had installed Ob XP, but I discovered it hadn't and the plugin wasn't actually enabled. My screens looked a lot like that when it happened. Try double-clicking on the omod again to either deactivate or install Ob XP. If it asks you if you want to deactivate, say yes. Then try installing it again. Also make sure you're running 4.1.8. When it complains about all the directories, just tell it to continue. The omod script will take care of the extra directories. You might need to actually go through the uninstall and re-install process with the new release. When you're done, just double-check to make sure Oblivion XP is actually checked off and is being loaded in OBMM.

[Cash n Class]

After creating the omod, did you double-click on it to actually install and enable Ob XP? I had some trouble with OBMM once - it basically got itself all confused. It appeared that it had installed Ob XP, but I discovered it hadn't and the plugin wasn't actually enabled. My screens looked a lot like that when it happened. Try double-clicking on the omod again to either deactivate or install Ob XP. If it asks you if you want to deactivate, say yes. Then try installing it again. Also make sure you're running 4.1.8. When it complains about all the directories, just tell it to continue. The omod script will take care of the extra directories. You might need to actually go through the uninstall and re-install process with the new release. When you're done, just double-check to make sure Oblivion XP is actually checked off and is being loaded in OBMM.

Yeah, I've uninstalled the mod and reinstalled a few times now. I've been playing with the vanilla leveling system for now. I'm stumped. I'm running the newest version of Ob XP.

[Tracy Byworth]

Yeah, I've uninstalled the mod and reinstalled a few times now. I've been playing with the vanilla leveling system for now. I'm stumped. I'm running the newest version of Ob XP.

When you uninstalled Ob XP, did you exit from OBMM before trying to reinstall it? Uninstall, exit OBMM, go back in and then try reinstalling. Apparently OBMM can be picky when it comes to menus and it doesn't actually remove the files when you uninstall something until you exit OBMM.

If that still doesn't work, then could you post your load order in spoiler tags please?

[Amy Gibson]

When you uninstalled Ob XP, did you exit from OBMM before trying to reinstall it? Uninstall, exit OBMM, go back in and then try reinstalling. Apparently OBMM can be picky when it comes to menus and it doesn't actually remove the files when you uninstall something until you exit OBMM.

If that still doesn't work, then could you post your load order in spoiler tags please?

No, that didn't work. Here's my load order, sorted by BOSS:

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
P1DkeyChain.esp
ATakesAll.esp
RenGuardOverhaul.esp
Oblivion XP.esp

[Alycia Leann grace]

No, that didn't work. Here's my load order, sorted by BOSS:

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
P1DkeyChain.esp
ATakesAll.esp
RenGuardOverhaul.esp
Oblivion XP.esp

Ok, well the only thing I see in there is that there might be another mod that also changes the menus, although I wouldn't think it would be the same menus as Oblivion XP. Did you install DarkUId DarN first, then all your other mods, then Oblivion XP? When you install Oblivion XP you have to let it override the menus, which the script should take care of for you. But it's important that it is installed last. I'm also referring to installation order, not load order, although I wanted to see your load order to see if something was conflicting.

Also which version of OBSE are you running? You can find out by checking the first line in the obse.log, which is located in your Oblivion folder (not the data folder). Could you also open the console after loading up a saved game and tell me if there is any spam in there? You can open the console and take a screenshot. I'm not worried about the usual "initialized" type messages, but I'm wondering if there are any error messages being generated.