This is for all those who truly adored Morrowind, and hope that the NEXT Elder Scrolls game resembles something that we all became ABSORBED with...
It is long, But I hope it is read an bumped and MAYBE it will get noticed and Bethesda will see what we ACTUALLY want in a game, instead of ignoring the masses crying out "Morrowind was better!!"

Now, there was a time where my truest RPG's were Final fantasy 7 & 8. I Loved and adored them both. Re-re-re Played them extensively.

One day back in early High-school, a friend said to me
"You must check out this game Morrowind. It is EASILY one of my top 3 games"

Now I was the kind of guy who unless I KNEW the game first-hand, I wasn't going to try it out.

One day (a month later) I was very bored having just Omni-Slashed my way through Sephiroth for the trillionth time. So I went into my local game-store and asked the store clerk what he recommended...

"Morrowind is your best bet here mate, great game. You NEED to play it"

Funnily enough I remembered my friend recommending this game. So I was somewhat reluctantly sold..purchased the X-Box version, and went home....


....I didn't leave my room for a month straight......


From the first moment you pan over Vvardenfel with the narrations of Azura, witnessing the vast landscapes in this new alien world..
Villages, Towns, Cities, Creatures and Oceans..
To awaking on a Boat, as a prisoner with nothing more than some rags and wrist irons.

The game feels like it is EXACTLY what the manual describes.
Be whoever you want, and DO whatever you want...

From the start you chose your stars, your talents, and your race, and from that point on you were left in a small village..alone.
What now?
Do I plunder this meager village for some cash/supplies?
Do I get the ring from that weasel wood-elf's stash in the pond?
Do I walk out of the city only to find a strange man fall out of the sky, dead, only to leave me with some vague instructions and 3 scrolls of Icarian Flight.

It went like this...

"Hmm scroll of Icarian Flight....cool!"
"Let me see here..."
"What happened?..Oh wow, 1000 Acrobatics"

.....
....
....
"Sh!t, I need to use another before I land or I'm going to ....."
...


Seriously, from the moment you walk out of the character creation house you FEEL like you are literally left alone in a new world to fend for yourself..explore, pillage, plunder, become a hero, assassin..WHATEVER.

Hell, I LOVED the freedom of being able to secure the levitation spell ASAP, steal a WHOLE bunch of mead's from the local Inn, and drink myself into a POWERFUL frenzy, then take a visit to Umbra the Orc for a 1-shot kill (or he WOULD slaughter me).
Then walk away with a smile and an awesome sword!

Now THAT there is freedom. Levitating to the top of a building just to check out the scenery whilst accompanied by the beautiful music score.

I remember reading that in Oblivion, the reason they removed the Levitation spell was because people were reaching areas of the game that they weren't supposed to get to at all, or too early in their adventure.

I ask, Where does that say FREEDOM?

Part of the freedom in the game is going wherever you want at whatever time/stage. Hell, if I want to take on the last boss 1 hour into the game and die?! that is my freedom! And that's what makes it fun!
If I want to run around and pillage caves and kill some Dark elf who would later turn out to be one of the final quests for the Redoran house clan ....than that is my prerogative, and it is true freedom.

Oblivion and Skyrim, BOTH from the beginning set you off with an agenda, and it feels more like I spend time AVOIDING the main quest rather than simply "Finding it"
I honestly feel like I am just delaying the inevitable.
Since the beginning doesn't draw you in as much as Morrowind, you become quite 'aware' that all you are doing is following some dog to a random cave...or wasting time killing a cave of bandits.
As opposed to feeling like you almost 'Forgot' there was actually a MAIN quest you can do.

Honestly, the amount of times I would go to school and have my mate turn to me and say;
"Have you started the main quest yet?"
And I would respond with
"......huh?....oh yea........"

Now don't get me wrong, the scenery is great in Oblivion/Skyrim. But it still doesn't have that Fantasy 'Feel' to itself the way Morrowind does.
Morrowind has that "Fantasy charm" about it, where around every corner, whether it be in the Telvanni areas like Sadrith Mora, to the Ashlander Yurts or to Redoran area of the world full of dust storms and ..ughhh.....cliff racers (If I ever hear that noise again I will ....god..flashbacks....argh!)
The flora and fauna were fun and exciting, the plants, the music. ALL of it came together in this beautiful magical blend of gamery that hooked so many people.

But things change, you try evolve games with the times. Experiment and whatnot.
Okay, I understand that. Graphics need to be updated, but why does the game-style need to drastically change?
Testing out new waters? Well after Oblivion the people let you know that Morrowind was BY FAR the better game. Doesn't this tell you what you are doing wrong? If anything Skyrim went more along the path of Oblivion.

Now you wont hear me discussing how good/bad graphics are at all in any game, because, of course the graphics need an overhaul with every new game...it's got to look current. I prefer to discuss what matters. The Game-play/story elements.

SO many good things in morrowind.
I LOVED that you could FULLY customize and create spells and enchantments.
If you didn't know, in Morrowind you could Create spells (provided you have the coin).
You could customize three areas. Magnitude, Force, Duration. Essentially, you could create a fireball spell that was like a fking METEORITE strike that took out half a town!!!
THAT is freedom!

You could pretty much do similar things with enchantments on weapons.

And the skills,
I loved the fact that there were HEAPS of them.
Spear, 2-H axe, 2-H sword, dagger, bow, 1-h sword, 1-h mace, light armour, medium armour, heavy armour etc etc.
It felt very specific to your character.

In Skyrim/Oblivion they just grouped all into Blades, Blunt etc 1-H and 2-H.
Less options feels like less freedom in this area.

And the Travel, instant travel, while feeling convenient....i feel takes away from the "Adventure"

A quick-game player with the attention span of a walnut, whose ONLY games usually are Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare and the latest Dirt-bike game player will think;
"FK yeaH! I can beat the game in 2 hours Thanks instant travel!!"

But those of us who actually ADORE a good RPG realize...half the adventure is fighting those damned bandits, collecting those herbs, side-tracked by a cave, getting your boot's of blinding speed, then walking into town to catch a Silt Strider to then connecting to Vivec.
QUEST COMPLETED..ahhh..satisfying...


Now again, I will state, Oblivion and Skyrim are good enough games. But they just don't bring to the table everything Morrowind brought.

SOME areas of the latter games were improvements.
-Like the Alchemy I found got better...
-Magic became more viable...(especially with dual wield)<----but more viable does NOT mean, more fun...(we miss you levatate)
-Quests that became more interactive,

---on this note--- (as an example)
The theives guild quests in Oblivion. The last quest was just a blast! Felt like a top-tier thief.
But for some reason I found with Skyrim, all the quests felt pointless, quick, rushed. EASY as all hell...they didn't draw you in.
And also on the 'Easy Quest' note, They direct you TOO much to your quest objective. It involves NO thinking what-so-ever.
----------------------

-AI behavior less buggy, as in, if you aren't seen committing a crime the WHOLE town doesn't just instantly know...
-Arena was a blast!
-Customizing/creating Armour etc was a nice change
-Horses were cool, except made redundant I found with instant travel.

My main point here is, the latter games made some marked game-play improvements, but overall, they detracted too much from what was a good game.
I feel that if they implemented these game-play elements into something that had a LOT more resemblance to Morrowind, the game would be an instant 10/10.

Things they needed to keep from Morrowind were things like;

- The depth of story, WITHOUT already throwing you head-first into a story. Being predominantly left to your own devices was amazing.
-Keeping customization of enchanting/magic with the depth Morrowind had. Even letting you use spells like Levitate.
Mark/recall spell was fine, since it didn't allow you to travel to any end of the world at a whim, it was more realistic.
-Having the Flora/Fauna look more like an actual fantasy world, and less like a medieval world.
Medieval aspects are fine, but when you walk through a forest and you see trees, a broken down castle and a deer...it isnt as capturing as some strange creature wallowing amongst glowing bulbs and a pond filled with strange plants while a strange and uncommon architecture stand beside it.
- More character development options. They were good. If I wanted to swim ALL day just to increase my athletics to 100, then that was my choice! THAT is freedom! If I wanted to be a spear-wielding, medium armoured maniac.....THAT is freedom!
Just because you are good with a 1-h axe, it does NOT mean your guy/gal should be good with a dagger. Doesn't even make sense.

<---again, I would like to reiterate that alot of what they removed from the game (spell customization, enchant customization, levitate, more abilities) it also took one other thing out of the game. True Freedom.
Which seems quite contradictory, considering the manuals always explain themselves as saying "We pride ourselves on freedom"...or something to that effect.
When they SHOULD be saying
"Our game lets you be free...to some extent...and even less free if you have experienced our previous games..."


I have gone on for long enough, And if you really do think that Morrowind was a great example of an RPG, give this a bump so HOPEFULLY we can get some Corporate eyes on this so they can see more and more of people who agree that a game MORE like Morrowind is what we , the consumer, want.

(Seriously, it's all you ever see....Morrowind---->Skyrim--->Oblivion....so why don't they listen to us...)

Thanks for hanging around this long if you did. I just want us all to be able to be as excited about a game as we all once were when we started Morrowind (I haven't had that in a long time)


(..Hell, if they remade Morrowind..I think I'd even buy that..((though we'd all like a fresh game))



----EDIT----

(To all those who would say "One of these threads again"...well, yes indeed. How else do you expect to inform a producer of what you would like in a future game if you keep your mouth shut?<---kind of how you came on my thread here to let me know what you thought of it huh?)

Left this for a few days and didn't expect it to still be going, but I am glad it is!

A lot of mixed opinions here I have seen. Especially from those who like to feel intelligent because they picked apart one damned thing out of an entire post.

Look, what I am trying to (I admit, naively) achieve here is that HOPEFULLY gamesas hears a little more about what we, the consumer would like. And tries to implement the good aspects of ALL the elder scrolls games into one sweet ball of RPG'ness.
I did try to be objective, I gave kudos and examples of improved things from the Later series games, that honestly, Morrowind Lacked. And there were a good solid list of things.

This isn't just another "I want I want..Give me Give me" thread, it's aimed at;
A: showing How much a lot of people enjoyed Morrowind MORE than the latter games. (I am NOT saying that we didn't enjoy the Latter games at all. Do not misconstrue..because honestly, even a Morrowind CRAZED fan would have to agree that Skyrim/Oblivion did soak up a large portion of our days post-purchase..)
and
B: Giving ideas on how to possibly create an elder Scrolls VI game with some real POW! Using all elements from all the games. Suggestions from the consumers is where you start.

And lets be realistic, I have read ALL over the internet, in magazine reviews blogs...etc etc. You name it! the MAJORITY of players rated Morrowind as the top choice of the three newest Elder scrolls.

What does that tell you? Obviously not to start deviating so much until we end up with another game where I can grab a sword and shield and smash every creep in the game with little effort...unless I am too busy being side-tracked by another pointless feeling quest.


Some opinions here such as; "comparing Morrowind and Skyrim is like diablo and baldurs gate etc etc"....except it's not. Both Skyrim and Morrowind are Elder Scrolls series games. Apples grown from the same tree (so to speak).
Having them so different is going to lose customers.
Personally, if the next game doesn't shape up to be less of a hack and slasher with side-quests, I wont be purchasing any more. Bottom line, as they will no longer be what I am after in an RPG of this Caliber.


Look, end of the day ALL three games were fun. I doubt many people will disagree here. But the games are slipping from Great--->Good---->soon to be just another game to buy of I am out of options.
I think the fine peeps of gamesas could whack together an awesome game combining the best of all the Elder Scrolls games, and come out on top with a stunner of a 10/10 game!...Well, i'm hoping..(and many of you are i'm sure)

You can troll all you want, but you aren't helping yourself to get a good game in the future.

And for those who did agree, thanks a lot. Hopefully we can one day open up Elder Scrolls VI and be enraptured the same way we were 10 mins Into Morrowind.




..oh and, fix the hairstyle choices..they are still yuck....LOL

I agree entirely.

The guild quests in Oblivion were often great but the game lacked in too much other areas.

Oh good. This thread again.

The word we does not belong in this post. You have not been deputized to speak for a group, an organization, or a loose confederation of like-minded individuals. You are entitled to write: "I became absorbed with..." and "what I ACTUALLY want in a game..." and no more.

As long as you're going to cheat, it helps to have the PC version. Then you can simply use mods or console commands to gift your character with awesome equipment. It is, however, very nice having the opportunity to acquire some of the best items through your own initiative -- with exploration, luck, and cleverness -- rather than being restricted to level grinding alone. Morrowind is good at rewarding the right things.

Agreed.

You have absolutely no idea how much i agree with you. Morrowind was a better GAME, it was fun, interactive and for its time attractive. My only complaint was how long it took to travel, sure the first few trips are fun but after that things get a bit slow. Skyrim also ruins the fear and awe that surrounds dragons, that and the fact that there are no boss fights, only people with more health and damage but require no new technique to kill completely ruined my experience of the main quest in Skyrim. However, one thing i think Oblivion did better than morrowind was the side quests, sure i wish i had more guilds to join but the quest lines were longer and you had ranks with your own little emblem that represented your status. I also liked the Arena which i missed in Skyrim. My only problem with Morrowind was that some of the epic items at the end were in a different weapon class which made life quite a bit harder.

Morrowind was far less generic and far more elaborate in its environments and NPCs. However, I feel Daggerfall was even better in these respects (though not in others).

TES seems to be taking a shift towards more action-oriented gaming, and what I mean by 'action-oriented' is that the player's actions have more of an impact than the character's. The decision to drastically scale down the world to use this buggy-as-a-termite-mound Gamebryo engine was a big problem to begin with; I mean, really, one of the most broken and awkward things in the game is the physics, a feature which has almost NO GAME EFFECTS except for annoying and negative ones (disappearing bodies because you hit them too hard, etc.) If they had just dropped this pointless game of bad-physics and stuck to making dialogue and a much, much, much larger landscape the games would be far superior.

Not only that, but in their drive to make 'physics' they dropped some rather obvious things; such as being able to bash down doors. Daggerfall had more realistic physics than Oblivion or Skyrim AND it had a better, bigger game world.

I am a fan of both Oblivion and Skyrim, but I think that Bethesda needs to focus on setting, tone and unique storylines instead of cool new animations to decapitate wolves.

oohhhh, nostalgia creeps in again.

Daggerfall > Morrowind

Just an FYI

Daggerfall was a completely different KIND of game from Skyrim. I wish Bethesda would have stuck with the more D&D/Bards Tale appeal instead of hack n' slash. A world their size...used as a giant dungeon...is a waste.

Great post and I agree 100%. Morrowind is the best of the three latest games and much of what made it great has been removed just like you said. Too much focus on killing in caves things rather than to creata a deep world where things actually make sense. In fact I dare say nothing within the game has improved since Morrowind other than the pure technological things.

This is the heart of the problem. Daggerfall and Morrowind were "character focused" RPG/action games; Oblivion and Skyrim were "player focused" ACTION/rpg games. There are still enough residual RPG elements in the later games for them to still claim "RPG" status (with a bit more of a stretch each game), but the focus is on FPS combat and flashy graphics at the expense of everything else. They look so good that it's hard to pass them up, and then you find that there's no substance to them. Of course, if you're only looking for some passing diversion, what more do you want? I suppose it's perfect for a percentage of their market, and good enough for the majority of the new players, but those who bought the older games for their character-based RPG aspects are seriously disappointed with the recent changes. Nostalgia isn't the main factor (although it is a factor), when the TYPE of game itself has changed.

The reduction in skills, the removal of Attributes, the paring down to totally generic starting character stats, the narrowing of equipment classes and styles into a "linear progression" of weapons and armor instead of a wide variety available from the beginning, the reduced spell lists, the removal of Spellmaking, and all of the other "simplifications" of the game severely limit RP options and choices, but are more than adequate for a simple combat game. The lack of meaninful dialog choices, the lack of consequences for your decisions, the lack of requirements for promotion, the removal of failure for unskilled actions, and the lack of even simple acknowledgement of your rank, status, and world-changing deeds again have no real impact on a combat game, and half of the more recent converts to the series don't even understand why you would want them, much less be concerned about it. Add to that the blatant and excessive scaling that makes actual character improvement pointless (except as a way to unlock "higher" equipment so your FPS character "feels" mighty, while really being no better off than before because the opponents get the same stuff), and it might as well just be called a combat game and drop the lame pretenses of being a RPG anymore - but it's the "best RPG" most of them ever played.

Yep. We could have chalked Oblivion up to a fluke of trying to balance the new and popular 'phys-X' type of junk with their RPG, but with Skyrim it's become obvious that the game is intended to be a Dungeon Crawler and not much else. You make a great point about the lack of meaningful dialogue choices, I aside from the options to choose "Good luck on the wedding" or "Gimme your wedding presents" nothing makes a difference in the dialogue options.

I do think Skyrim improved on some aspects, the game is more fluid, the leveling system makes a lot more sense; but they've basically made it so most characters are functionally identical.

It also tends to fail in some respects as a combat game since it is not usually feasible to choose your type of power attack (which was not true in Morrowind, as there wasn't such a rush of hits if you messed up or stood close to a guy, thanks to the skill based 'to-hit' roll). You basically just overpower the crap out of your armor/enchantments/weapons of choice and end up one-shotting 99% of the enemies my around lvl 25. And that's without OCD grinding and min-maxing, the latter being incredibly simple as the game has so few variables and because the only attributes that really matter are combat.

Your right Skyrim is no comparison. It out right blows it out of the water.

This thread again...

Saying Skyrim is better than Morrowind is like saying Diablo is better than Baldur's Gate, or that Starcraft is better than Hearts of Iron. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's 'better'. They're not the same kind of game and they're not aimed at the same kind of audience.

Skyrim is streamlined, straightforward to the point of bluntness and a very small game (for an Elder Scroll game). That's great if you want to hack n' slash and not have your previous gameplay choices, like skills and factions, have any real effect on your success and goals. On the other hand if you like making your character subject to the world (and, to some extent, the world subject to your character) then the much more complicated, faction-based and hard-fall consequences of Morrowind are much better.

Morrowind certainly could be improved - but not by turning it into Dark Alliance.

Us hardcoe RPG nerds are still alive and kicking, and since we're the ones who put games like TES on the map we feel we have a right to critique changes we don't like in the series. You prefer Skyrim? Fine, go play it. But stop making nonsensical blanket claims as though you view from on-high with a lens of objectivity.

Gotta agree with what the OP has posted

Haha, this topic again.

I know that is mini-modding in itself, but I have to say it: is it really all you have to say? Who cares if he didn't write his post the way he should have, he still gets his point across and that's what we should be discussing. He might not represent anyone, but it's not like he was pulling something off his ass and claiming loads of people are with him when he's alone. So I could, and you should, care less if he chose the wrong words. You talk as if you have some authority over him or anyone, and that comes off as being a bit of a dike honestly.



Anyway, I do find he hits the nail on what many Morrowind fans including myself love in the game. I was watching my brother play, and it wasn't rare that he commented on why he couldn't certain things. ANOTHER "essential" NPC? No open-locks spell? No chameleon? etc... Where is the freedom when you feel limited in the actions you can do? Where is the freedom when they cut some possible consequences out, by disabling you some actions? NO NPC is essential You kill Caius Cosades in Morrowind, the main quest is over, but you can still do anything else you want. He's just a mortal being, and should be treated as so. You're from House Hlaluu and decide to go on a rampage cleaning the other Great Houses? Your choice! And your consequences. Someone asks you to go give a rare item to someone else? You just accepted because you don't have morals and wanted to sell it? There's no "quest completed" message to tell you when you're over with a quest, it's your choice. You decide to go kill the owner of a certain house you like in Balmora? You can claim it as yours and stock your items.

Some people find that Morrowind allows you to "break" the game. I disagree, it's not because you can overpower yourself with potions or spells that the game is broken. In fact, freedom makes it possible certain classes are overpowered while others are underpowered, not all are equal. If you can with the help of heaps of spells and such get that item and kill easily anyone, well why shouldn't you do that? You're thrown in a world where you can do whatever you want. You now, in real life, there won't be some mystical voice to tell you shouldn't do x or y thing because you're not experimented enough. If you can abuse some mechanics, there's nothing forcing you not to. It's like people who complain you get overpowered in the game, well duh! Part of the fun of RPGs is to see your character evolve, and each character evolve differently at different paces. Oblivion introduced the concept of challenge. So, for some reason, the world should adapt to you, instead of you adapting to the world? How does that even make sense? Dangerous areas should stay dangerous, petty bandits should stay petty bandits. You should adapt to the world and you should see the consequences of your actions on the world. If you got all the most powerful artifacts as equipment, went through all the pain and sweat to acquire them, you want that back. You just don't want to "keep up" with the world, which makes the point of leveling up and acquiring equipment useless. It tells you what the game is about when the developers are concerned that your reflexes are subject to the same challenge for the whole game. Instead of using your intellect and character skills to find how to approach each situation, if you should approach that situation. It asks you to adapt to what you can or can't do, and depending on your class, things may work out very differently from game to game.

Now, no matter which class you are, the game plays mostly the same and creativity is rarely useful, if rarely permitted. You could do so many things and use a lot of creativity in Morrowind, but take out skills, take out spellmaking, take out spells, take out x and y thing, and your options get limited. You know, I once tried to replicate the scroll of Icarian flight spell by adding another one that would make me not die, and then enchant equipment with them. I tried to take Vivec's soul with Azura's star and enchant the piece of equipment which permitted me the biggest charge, etc. There were so many things you could do. Now, no dungeon offers unique loot, you can't kill anyone, drop quest items or sell them, have certain skills/spells that enable you to do crazy things. It's not because you can do crazy things that the game is broken, only that it enables you to do so because the game/world mechanics enable to do so and that you use your freedom to do so. The consequences of having a certain creativity to do certain combinations of things is that you might become overpowered. And what's the problem? If you feel you shouldn't become overpowered, don't do it! And it's not because I'm talking about this that I always made overpowered characters or try to be overpowered the whole time. I could as much play an underpowered character or a normal one and not look on internet guides to know which artifact is where. The thing is, you have FREEDOM, and you have a [censored]load of OPTIONS. Sure you have freedom in Skyrim, but within the confines of the OPTIONS which are much more limited, making you LESS free.

What bethesda honestly needs to do us take the best elements from morrowind, oblivion and skyrim and implement them into the next elder scrolls game. Stick to what works, stop trying to scrap the old systems because they have flaws and making a new flawed system. Improve upon what already has proven itself.

Morrowind did something for me no game has been able to since.
It scared me!

I was so into the world of Morrowind I felt actual fear when doing certain things in the game. Oblivion isn't scary or moody at all. Skyrim doesn't have enough immersive depth to invoke real feelings in me.

Morrowind will always stand out from all other games because of the emotional connection I had with it.
Even though it had very little voice acting. None HD graphics. And terrible battle mechanics. It is still one of the best games I've ever played.

I'm already bored of skyrim, so I was actually playing Morrowind a few days ago.
And I still am traumatized by certain things.
I did all my Telvanni chores sept the one where you have to go talk to the scholar in his creepy haunted house.
I got as far as the front hallway before my stomach started to turn. And I ran my ass out of there....

Skyrim made me cry once, but only because I realized I wasn't going to be a Psijic and they were going to fade out of my pathetic life forever....
But that's nothing compared with how morrowind makes me feel.

It's almost like I can smell the rain in the air when I'm wandering through the Bitter Coast....

No, see that statement is Nostalgia.
I played Daggerfall first. It was incredible to basically be playing D&D on the computer.

But Morrowind was infinitely better.
At least I didn't HAVE to restart a billion times because I got stuck or lost in Morrowind.

Nailed again. But I think Skyrim is great, as an action/adventure game which doesn't compare to Morrowind.

I agree. While I like Skyrim and Oblivion, I think they're going in a different direction away from Morrowind. We won't see another game like it again, which is unfortunate.

[edit] However, I will say that it's not entirely Bethesda's fault. Yes, they ARE changing the game to get more fans, but I think the real problem is we who were TES fans for Morrowind have made it so much more than a game. I have no idea what it is, but it makes me believe there just might be a God.

I will play you the worlds smallest violin now.