You do know that I was talking about not running into walls, right?

They could've programmed the AI to detect when the player's entering a doorway, or for all doorways to have a listener that would make the follower know that it has to go through there and in which direction, and then script the entering/exiting doorway so that the NPC ALWAYS use the doorway properly and not get stuck, or try to run into a wall thinking that it's not there, etc.

Another lazy/easy way is to mark waypoints for the NPC to follow the player properly.

Hell, even if teleportation were done, it'd make more sense to teleport the NPCs BEHIND the player instead of IN FRONT of the player, when the NPC was clearly left BEHIND.

Yeah, I know you were talking about running into walls primarily. But I think neither one of us know what we are talking about . . . at least not enough to know if any of our expectations truly are reasonable.

The point I'm making in that previous post is basically: Pick a game that is more or less identical in scale, and scope as FO4 and which meets the expectations you are expressing.

I don't remember seeing NPCs walk into walls for eternity in Assassin's Creed. GTA San Andreas as well.

Have a listener for all doorways, when player go through, the AI will know it has to go through that specific door in from a specific pre-programmed place.

Every 500ms, mark the player position for the follower to go to. If distance is more than x, or there are too many waypoints, teleport to last waypoint instead of teleporting in front of the player.

I don't play enough open-world games honestly, so maybe there are some where the AI really is "better."

Is Assassin's Creed comparable to FO4 in being so open and large?

Now that I think about it, I don't recall AI "walking into walls" much in FO3 either though . . . nor Skyrim.

However, I do recall seeing AI in Skyrim "walk into" my tents and cooking pots (from Frostfall). I'd think that most of the AI issues you describe happen either player built structures or in situations where player building has interfered pathing through pre-existing structures?

The loose, non building items can not be helped. I don't fault them for that. I don't decorate and leave things hanging anywhere at all. It's either in a bag, some chest, or sold.

Player built structures, definitely.

There is a lot going on in a Fallout 4 game world once a player gets set loose in it. I've noticed that a freaking CAT can cause me to run in place if I am aimed right at it. It is of course absurd: here is this cat animation (which I cannot interact with) laying on the porch stretching itself and acting cat like. My character comes sprinting along "hits" the cat and either bounces off to the side or starts running in place.

That is an object that is already IN the game world by default and has nothing to do with the player and which produces "dumb" behavior on the part of the avatar, not on the part of the "AI."

I don't know if the rate at which AI stand around blocking stairwells, walk into walls, standing around half clipped into walls, tending crops "THROUGH" walls, failing for long minutes to find their way through a doorway, etc., can really be "fixed" (meaning reduced dramatically, if not eliminated). I will agree with you that these things are observable, particularly where the player has been modifying the landscape with structures. But I just don't know if it is really reasonable for us to expect the developer to "fix it." Fixing it might involve a great deal of time and money, and if the problem is not hurting sale (which it does not seem to be) then why would they bother honestly? Most of us probably just shrug and let it go, and so will most of their additional customers over the next months and years.

Now you're thinking like an EA executive, fixing bugs costs time and money, if it doesn't sell extra copies then why bother? For a consumer it's a very strange attitude to take (I also don't really agree that bugs don't hurt sales but it's pretty much impossible to have any concrete figures on that). Pathfinding issues are obviously bugs, they should really be fixed.

I didn't really notice that many problems with companion AI, maybe that's because I'm expecting them to be a liability in combat. They don't always charge straight into enemy crossfire, that's all I ask of them . Dogmeat though seems to always get in your way and shove you aside somehow, that can get rather annoying.

In other words, you have nothing to respond to upon our valid points on what you stated. Sorry, but there's nothing impressive of the NPCs in this game, think the only improvement they ever got was "Instead of crouching behind a wall, let's make you LEAN on the wall and shoot from behind it!", and before you say it, yes, some of the NPCs did use stimpaks outright when damaged enough, this isn't new.

If I had already worked for 3 years as a worker bee in a studio and then another three as a team leader / designer, and I actually KNEW what was involved here, I'd be more in a position to be certain one way or the other.

But instead I used the word "might."

Game breaking bugs: I agree, they really should be fixed. But NPCs that do dumb things do not count as "game breakers" except by standards that are absurdly high. It is like arguing that a book or movie that you just didn't really enjoy "was broken" and so you deserve to get your money back.

So only bugs that are game breaking should be fixed and anything else is 'absurdly high' standards? Again, as someone who paid money for the game, would you not want that game to be as bug-free as possible? I'm finding this way of thinking really strange (and a lot of people on these forums seem to think that way). There seems to be now a slippery slope where games are released in an increasingly buggy state, I believe this kind of thinking is one of the causes.

I understand of course that in the real world it's not possible to fix every single bug but there should be at least an intention to fix everything that can be fixed. Simply going 'this is not gamebreaking, so screw this' is not ok.

Mine never do the get caught thing. If that's the way they handled it., it certainly simulates a broken field run pretty well. I also think I've had the doorway problem twice and only with elevators which they refuse to enter. maybe the AI's better with more processing or I'm really lucky or you're really unlucky. Anyway pathing for a specific known area is quite a bit easier than an open world. There's room for improvement ( really wish they could jump upwards or across) but definitely satisfied with the improvement.

That being said, I'm on "the you guys are really hard to please " Please feel free to invalidate my opinion because I didn't provide sufficient rebuttals but it won't change either of our minds

Thank you very much. I couldn't understand what you ment, but I do now. Greatly appreciate for your explanation. I hate when I don't understand.

i'm usually of the impression that the AI in this game is better than previous ones, but i've now experienced one little thing I dont like

why is it that when you exit a building because you're retreating from enemies, do all the enemies immediately appear behind you as soon as you exit?? So enemies can teleport? xD so far this is my only complaint on AI

No. The AI has extremely precise aim, even too much so when they are firing from under cover, around corners, etc. They SHOULD miss 90% of the time when firing like that because it is actually suppression fire, but they wind up hitting you about 90% of the time instead. Modders made the same mistake in FWE for FO3 and it's very immersion-breaking.

However, it's true that the AI in FO4 is more dynamic than pretty much any other game today, especially any open world type of game where the environment is dynamic and not static.

If you want to claim that you have "valid points" then stick with discussing the actual facts of what the game does rather than posting things that it obviously does not do such as enemies being inaccurate with firearms. That is totally false and all players can see it by playing, let alone watching videos of others play.

Watching the AI fight eachother in Fallout 3 was really fun. They would take cover and pop up from cover to shoot at each other. Sure there was no animations for that cover taking, but it was there.

Now they seem to have applied those skills to fighting the player. Always love using proper infantry tactics in games rather than the more old school FPS way of just blasting into large hordes. The Assault Rifles that most of my opponents are using look out of place when used by people not in power armour. Might need to do some modding of my own once someone makes a decent AK model and mod.

I'm very well satisfied by the AI.

Except the close-quarter-Fat-Man blaster and the veteran-baseball-pitcher-throwing-bombs. Those two are kinda bullcrap.

On launch day on my first trip to downtown Boston I was sneaking along some tall buildings with my bolt-action and then heard a fatman launch. I couldn't see him, so I assumed I was safe...I was wrong.

Got a achievement from it.

This is why you're ignored.

What other games do you think have better combat AI?

Companions are way more personable than they were in BGS's FO3 or Skyrim (barring Serana, who I think the the 'original' FO4 companion in this sense). Their extra dialogue and animations actually make them good company. For once they are Companions, and not merely Followers.

FEAR has been known to have one of the most active combat AI's in the video game industry, with the AI announcing where your last presence was in the combat, the enemy actively flanks quickly around your position, leaping over obstacles, ducking towards cover, call for backup which prolongs firefights even further, or even retreat and never return, possibly fleeing outright. Fallout 3-NV AI has been known to run from time to time from scenarios that look grim, but FO4? No. None of the AI has been noted in any playthrough, or through my gameplay, along with NPCWars vids show anything of that sort when it comes to Fallout 4.

Condemn Criminal Origins has a more impressive enemy AI, with thugs grabbing anything within their reach, even using the environment (ex.: Bits of a wooden plank off a wall ripped out of the environment in their desperate moment to defend/assault you), fake out exposed regions in melee combat to hit you with a counter attack and if successfully hit, some will even retreat where numerous thugs, hearing the conflict, would flank and silently creep up to your position from behind to ambush you.

Two are just examples of good AI, There's far more games out there that have a more impressive combat AI than FO4.

I've seen many different mobs retreat in FO4, multiple times: raiders, Super Mutants, bugs, dogs, mirelurks, though never ghouls, deathclaws, or scorpions.

Agreed, alot of times as they are being decimated, they do not behave "normally," and fight "valiantly" to the last. But they do occasionally retreat, when the situation affords it.

@GiantRat: expecting the devs to fix "every bug" is unreasonable, accepting that they fix "no bugs" is also unreasonable. The reasonable balance, for both consumer and producer lies somewhere in between. My point is only, the developer and the publisher have reasonable interests in the matter just as players do. As a player, if I let myself be deluded, yes, I'd like to demand perfect games that do everything I want every time I buy one. As a player trying to be realistic, I think it is reasonable that a developer doesn't necessarily fix every bug.

Assassins creed enemies dry humping walls has been ever present since the first game, and has most certainly not gotten better.

Today I approached a lone female raider who was camping near a statue that was close to vault 95 and she started running away from Cait and myself screaming how this ain't worth it. I was kinda surprised given this is my first time seeing someone running away in my 70+ hours. I'm only level 37 too.

lol its not that much better then half life.... Its 2015/16 l would think a game like fallout would have much better AI.