Great post Darkie! I agree!

Its like people want a well optimized TURD of a game instead of a well made story, dialogue and atmosphere driven game with a few bugs.

Keep up the awesome work Obsidian, this is a REAL Fallout game to me, unliek Fallout3.

Its almost as if I am back on the release day of Fallout1, this game reminds me alot of Fallout1/2, just awesome game.

Obsidian should be given credit. With the amount of time they had they put out a great game. I'm sure they had been given more time it could have been better polished.

Where do you get your numbers conserning "thousands that cannot play it"? Is there a statistic site on the internet where it lists all the overly dramatic people who mainly are xbox r0xx0rs who started the fallout series with part 3.

You also have a number for games of this length and depth which were launched without a single bug? If so I like to see this specific piece of information.

Nobody is stealing your money. If you don't like it you can return it. Most retailers will take it back and hand you your hard earned money.

I've only encountered a few gltiches, and honestly I've seen every single one of them in Oblivion and Fallout 3 before.

I'm continually amazed at the tiny little touches they've put in. I stopped and stood staring at the "Welcome to New Vegas" sign outside of McCellan, and just noted how well the textures and models were arranged for the perfect look. I can forgive the highways looking kinda repetitive, when I can see the dust blowing in the wind off the road. Voice acting on everyone, tons of NPCs filling in the world walking around according to the time...

I've skim-read the thread so... heh. I agree with you to an extent. KotOR 2 was defective from the very beginning, but there were circumstances the average gamer couldn't have known about the development, and Obsidian was already taking flak before anything could be explained. The damage to their reputation was done almost instantly. I like KotOR2, but only because a community of people that liked it created some of the most efficient patches I've ever seen, just about every aspect of - at least the core - quest issues were repaired, and I suspect some Obsidian devs were involved in that process.

The thing with Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout 3, and all of these open ended games is the work on them seems to be spread so wide during development that the bugs just pile up. I'm not an expert on game development but I assume there is a process by which areas are created, and then green lighted when they've been finished and tested. For a more linear game these areas are just levels. Entire maps making up single levels that can be played and replayed until most if not all of the bugs are found and squashed. They can forget about that area and concentrate on the next. They could release each level to the public and have it stand up, as a complete game. What they do is put them all together and have all these completed and bug free games making up one big bug free game.

Deadlines approaching, they may start to work on a few levels at once, or maybe from the start have dedicated teams with assigned areas and levels. It's not exactly a good thing to have players saying, "Oh well, look at the size of it, you have to expect these things." Because essentially the size and scope shouldn't matter. Is it possible that it could be cleared and tested by area, so it's essentially many small games being green lighted as bug free and ready, all wrapped in one big one? I don't see why not.

The DLC of Fallout 3 had bugs galore, and they are tiny in comparison to Fallout 3, but also small when compared with other major titles that you can play through entirely without experience a single problem. "I played three hours and only had one crash." Isn't a good thing. "I played this game in its entirety in one sitting." Is a good thing. Is to be expected. Is what it should be before the title is given the go ahead. The DLC was made for an already broken game.

I can understand PC games having problems, and write off maybe 70% of bugs and issues reported, as being a problem with the players' systems. The problem is their end, not with Fallout: New Vegas. The other 30 or so % though, it's just not acceptable. For consoles, I don't think there is any excuse for releasing what is obviously unfinished or broken. Because now devs have the option to patch these console games, it's almost like they know they can get away with errors, and so aren't as thorough with grade A quality, before the games are released. They're just not releasing polished titles. So for the 360 and PS3 audiences, I think they have every right to rage against Obsidian and Bethesda Softworks, and excuses from the community defending Obsidian, "It's a big game. It's to be expected." Frankly is a cop-out, and you're cutting them far too much "slack".

Oddly enough, I find myself wondering if the PS3 isn't the most stable platform at launch. I haven't had any issues at all with my game, save for one. A while back, in Freeside, my framerate got really low until it suddenly froze. I waited for about a minute and it popped back into life, hit start and saved, then I turned the PS3 off for a few and when I went back to the game shortly thereafter, everything was smooth as silk.

Well, you know. 30fps Fallout smooth.

They are there though. Every console review I've read has mentioned some bug, glitch, or problem. This is because the reviewer can't play for a couple of hours, and then write his review, and say: "In the time I spent I playing I didn't experience any bug! Well maybe one bug, but it was only temporary. So I give the game a 10/10." They all have to play it to completion, which for a game of this scope means they'll skip a horde of side-quests and what have you and spend a day or two following the main quest and only occasionally wandering off it to do other things. There's too much there for any review of F:NV to really make a judgement on the whole thing.

But having them all mention bugs, speaking only about the console versions, means that for any one play-through, you are going to encounter not just one, but many bugs. That's, I don't know how many reviewers in total, but if all report back with bugs, that means the testers before release did too. No doubt there is a list already compiled of what needs to be patched post-release, and work was already going on before release, but F:NV as was... was deemed finished enough to be put up for review. Meaning it could reap a decent score, and get its fixes later. It was released broken, and it passed some level of testing. The bar maybe set at, "Two out of three things work? That's good." Heh.

Probably. :shrug: As a PC gamer I expect bugs glitches and patches, but one of the selling points of a console is generally not having to cope with that kind of hassle. Or at least was. Quality assurance has always been better for consoles. IMO


Edit: Probably. :shrug:

I haven't encountered any bugs at all except for the very occasional "radscorpion gets stuck in rock" thing that I saw in FO3. It's unfortunate that you have bugs, but not all of us do, and from the way people talk about this game, I have to say it seems like you're in the minority.

WWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


seriously, go buy madden 10 or any of the other games that are just copy pasted over and over with no innovation, no complexity and no attempts at originality if you don't want a few bugs. I'm so tired of all you people having a single raider glitch for 3 seconds and then crying rivers over how this is the worst game ever made. This game has more content that probably half the rest of your game collection combined.

Bugs happen when you have the balls to try and make a great game instead of a mediocre game. All the games you listed in your OP are some of the best games in their genre and even outside their genre. For me I would rather more game companies take a risk at doing something difficult instead of the stagnant crap that has become the video game industry.

KOTOR 2 and New Vegas are both good games, stop being such a whiney [censored].

I guess the good old days were video games were actually finished once released are gone.

RIP

FO3 did have bugs but I hardly experienced bugs like this so quickly and constantly.NV froze twice in about...5 hours and FO3 froze once in about 30 hours.

The only bugs I have seen is dead things occasionally sink into the ground, and the absolutely horrendious quick save not saving problem.

Aside from that the game works fine.

For the Record, I loved KOTOR2 (not a good as 1 but fun nonetheless), I also loved NWN2 as well. Though I didn't play MP for it. Why would you want to play a game with so much reading and dialog as MP anyways?

The bugs are glaringly obvious within an hour or two of playing the game. Yes, I do expect Obsidian to test their products properly. If they have a "small testing team", perhaps they should hire more testers? Or have a public beta test? Or maybe they shouldn't charge full price for the game?

In the good old days games were a whole lot simpler.

Lord, some people are so melodramatic. "Ruining franchises?" "Unfinished mess?" "Buggy nightmare?" That's quite a flair for hyperbole you have. Can't you just say "There are some bugs, I'm displeased" and leave it at that?

Obsidian did great with KoToR 2 & NVN2. But those are both originally by Bioware, so they must have been cracking the whip & keep close tabs on them.

I haven't played New Vegas yet, but i have seen lots of the bugs already. I suspect it has everything to do with the outdated engine. How old is this thing already. They been using it since Morowind. Time for a new engine, Bethesda. I'll be picking up my copy tomorrow since i get paid on that day. I however, will not be playing the game until the patches are released for the Xbox version.

Now if you want to see a complete piece of crap game made by Obsidian themselves, with their own engine. Go check out Alpha Protocol. That game had huge, huge potential. But was the biggest POS i have even seen. Im glad i didn't fork over the cash for that one.

Big games generally have issues at release. I'm always just happy to know that the devs are busy scouring this forum, reading the emails they get and working late nights to patch it up. It is also why I am not even going to install this game for another couple of weeks.

With Bloodlines, we had to patch it up ourselves and it was still buggy but still one of the best games I've played.

This is good advice, I should not have gone nuts and did the midnight release - I was hoping.

It is good to know they are working the issues - and I hope they all realize that 9 out of 10 posts are Negative because the vast majority of those are without significiant issues and are enjoying the game. In my view one should never take these forums as an Actual reflection of player feedback - but it is a good place to find the bugs

We need a Rally to Restore Sanity for the internet.

LOL In the good old days you had to use your brain..There was no maps to help you..You didnt have automatic from point A to point B..Back then Clerics were Clerics and warriors were tanks etc,etc..Those days were the true days of working side by side..Its not like these sissy games of today... :whistling:

When were the good old days? I've been playing games since the early 90s. They were largely broken on release then as well. And if they were broken, you had to deal with them being broken; NO PATCHES FOR YOU. It wasn't until the late 90s that we got broken games which would then be fixed, courtesy of the Intertubs.

Anyone who comments on the, "good old days," needs to take their beer goggles off for a while

That was on Unreal, not Onyx; we haven't released any games using Onyx yet.

She said YET. You read it!