while you're correct that most of the game industry is a bunch of suits lying and taking advantage of gamers, this has been the result of corporatization of gaming when investors figured out it was going to be a cash cow. But obsidian is one of the very few companies left that is actually made of gamers and cares about the games and players. So if you're going to fly off the handle like that either direct it where it's deserved or shove it. These people are one of the few hold outs who hasn't given in to marketing pieces of crap to con you out of your money so it sickens me that you would spout such filth at them.

It sure will help to insult and demean the few gamers left in the game industry and show them that their hard work and dedication isn't appreciated by snots like you. so GTFO, your opinions aren't valid, your statements are trash, and it's gamers like you that are helping to further destroy the gaming industry. This is why the games that do well are the slapped together crap with little gameplay but good graphics and no bugs because they aren't complex enough to have many. It's because gamers like you would rather have a polished turd than a rough diamond. Of course EA has the money to weed out every bug, and it shows in their shallow copy+paste products.

I would respect this response if it had actual substance and not the same thing that everyone has already cried about at length.

Yes, I would respect it if it was well thought out as to why this game is a failure and what ruined it if the opinion were well stated with thoughtful comments to defend the position.

However, this post has none of these things, making it a cookie-cutter complaint the likes of which we have seen over and over.

So, in short: The patches are coming. And yes, we have noticed the bugs, too.

Please go troll somewhere else about the bugs, please...we already know about the....the industry didn't put a gun to your head to buy it. It was your choice to get it. If you're that displeased and upset, then, sorry? It seems most people here love the game. Obsidian had to work with, what I consider, a quite...what's the word...unique...engine. If you absolutely had to gripe and insult something, look at the Gamebyro engine, not Obsidian. Obsidian should be thanked for at least keeping the atmosphere and overall mood and humor of what a Fallout game, in my opinion, should be.

Personally, I loved Fallout 3 too, but not before Fallout 1 and 2 and now...New Vegas, if I so had to choose if someone put a gun up to my own head. But since they're not, I love them all. Fallout 3, to me, was a Fallout game in its own right, but to me didn't provide as much of a feel for it as Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas has. Granted, I found it was an interesting way to present what would happen in a place like D.C., but I feel out west is what brings out the true Fallout feel. Obsidian did a great job.

People here, including you, of course have a right to bash Obsidian, but it's quite melodramatic because of the scope of what you're saying. They're thieves? Sure, just as much as EA or Lucas Arts, Microsoft, Sony, and every other single company in the gaming industry. Tax creditors, the grocery store you go to, the bank, every time you go to fill up gas, the pharmacy; they're just as much as 'thieves' as Obsidian and they're not even directly related to the gaming industry. How about the movie theater? "My god, this movie was horrible! It was confusing, the dialogue svcked, and the plot was full of loopholes! Don't watch this movie people! Don't spend your money at this theater, these people are thieves!" to which most people would react by saying, "Lolwut?" as you storm out the door. I'm afraid what would happen if you got stuck in heavy traffic on the freeway.

Seriously, no one can be pleased these days. One tiny thing out of line and everything goes to complete chaos. It's, in my opinion, quite annoying. Listen, I don't mean to sound insulting towards you, but I, just like many others here, are tired of hearing senseless bashing on companies because of one or two things...or many small things that displeases someone so much they want to vomit. As people said, it's a big game, it's BOUND to have bugs somewhere along the lines. And no game is completely bug free, despite what game it is, especially in this case because it covers a large area and there's many different buildings, items, NPC's, quests...something's bound to be awkward there. Can't count the number of times where I see a brahmin trying to catch up with the rest of the caravan but was stuck in a rock for a little bit before finally getting on course, but NPC's have never been all that bright overall in...well, many different games. The perfect AI, in my opinion, would probably turn into freakin' Skynet if we go too far. I even spotted some typos in the first two Fallouts, but I didn't go insane over them, even if I am a grammar Nazi....and typos are really the least of anyone's worries...typos, like bugs, also happen.

To sum it all up, don't blame Obsidian. They had to work with a difficult engine which technically started with Dark Age of Camelot, believe it or not (But it's more known for Oblivion. I have Oblivion as well, yes...the bugs in there are obvious too, but I rarely complain about them...). Be at least somewhat happy they brought back many classic things. I'm just drooling over my Vault 13 items. And besides, the game just freaking released, of course there will be many bugs still roaming around somewhere....but through patches, and in some cases, unofficial patches, will become less and less apparent and overwhelming. So far the 'worst' thing I've seen is a brahmin trying to kiss a rock somewhere near Novac. All I did was laugh, but I didn't rage and say, "I want my money back, this company is full of thieves." One or two bugs, or heaven forbid...five of them....and "Oh lord, the world is ending! Save yourselves from this torture! This ruining of a great franchise!" As Elrundir said, melodramatic indeed. I agree there. Just a few bugs and it's the end of the world because the thieves stole your money....

As for KotOR 2, I for one, loved it. And while I did beat it and it did look to be unfinished, it's understandable, they were rushed to get that thing out the door. That didn't take away my fun with it. In-fact, many people still loved it. If people here love Obsidian's products, then Obsidian has done their job. I don't think Obsidian will give up or crumble because of complaints of a few people. As my history and government teacher once said, the minority, is usually, always screwed.

*sigh* Rant over. Had to get that off of my chest. If it seems really personal, I'm sorry, but I'm just trying to convey a point to overall senseless bashing. It's almost as bad as if a sandwich doesn't taste quite the same because one tiny thing was missing, but will get fixed later on down the road because you figure it was just a certain type of meat you forgot to slap on into it and then it'll taste better. God, now I'm hungry.



Indeed. However for me, 'broken' games usually means someone accidentally threw the cartridges and the discs against the wall. I suppose I was lucky as far as bugs went regarding the early 90's, or I just didn't catch them since I was little and all. I only got annoyed because I couldn't complete a level in a game because I wasn't fast enough, I didn't time my jumps right, my turn-based tactics usually turned back against me, so I'd like to think the actual games weren't at fault, at least from what I've encountered. I rarely played PC games back in the early 90's because I was stuck to my NES and my Genesis....and then eventually PSX, N64, PS2, and finally, X-box,,,,, but the PC games I did play rarely had any issues either. I don't remember the year I played Fallout unfortunately, but I know I'd have had to have played it once, because New Vegas has brought back many nostalgic moments.

Sorry for my book of a post, people....I'm a writer at heart. lol

I have games currently installed that date back to the late 80's (and I have patches for some of them too). The internet was existent in 1969, and had traffic in the late 80's and early 90's, and bloomed with the advent of Win95. There are no Beer Goggles for games that you have at your fingertip, and can run, and can scrutinize at will. Some of my better games are from the 80's and 90's, and early 2000's .

Unfortunately it really is SOP for a game to come out and need some work. That's just the way it is. Some of the greatest games I have ever played started out...badly. Expressing dissatisfaction is one thing. Moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't accomplishing a thing.

So, what then?

Act like a community, work with each other to try and either find fixes or provide CONSTRUCTIVE info back to the devs to help THEM fix it. Is that our job? Nope. Do you want to play this game?

I do.

So rant away but just know, you really aren't making things any better.

Lets lay some of the the blame where it belongs, with the freaking decade old same buggy engine since Morrowind. Though it did receive an update since Morrowind, the same issues arise in all games since with this engine.

It's time to retire the Gambryo engine. Hell, it was time 3 games ago if you ask me. :shrug:

Lets hope that's not "4 games ago" with the next TES/Fallout game.

I agree with the guy you're quoting, actually. It's not just a game, it's a business. And if the customers are mad as hell the developers are going to fix the game or they aren't going to have anymore customers. All epic RPGs will have bugs, this is true. Rarely do they have so many game breakers as FO:NV. And obviously a game that was released 12 years ago will have more bugs and lower standards for bug control than games nowadays.



Do you have a source with the size of their testing team? You're saying it's small, but do you actually know it is small or are you just saying that? Also, do you know what the average size of a testing team is for a large RPG? If so, can you post that and a link to where you came up with it so we can compare the size of Obsidian's to the average? If their team was too small they should have hired more testers. Problem solved.
Also, I can state with certainty that the problems have nothing to do with the different hardware and operating systems people are playing with. Unless you are still using Windows XP (which uses Direct X9 standard) you're going to have issues. If you're on the console, you're going to have the same issues. Maybe the problem is with the engine being overworked and not Obsidian's QA, but if that were true, how come modders have found a way to fix the autosave bug and the frame rate bugs already? It took them about one day to do it. Which is very good, and Obsidian should have fixed it already.

One last thing. These issues could be found within minutes of actually starting the game, and they'd be staring you in the face and ruining your game within hours at the most.


Gaming industry is a business, not a charity. They don't make games because people like to play them and they just love making people happy with their games (although some if not all of them probably do enjoy it when people are happy with their games); they make games to make money. And so long as we are paying money, we will always have the say as to whether a game (and by extension it's developer) has or had some problems.

Whut?
Why would games released 12 years ago have more bugs and lower standards? That's counter to common sense.

Truth (and tragedy). Once a game company grows beyond the point where they can make games because its fun... what they make has a hard time showing any soul. Fallout 1 was great because it was just a few guys left largely alone and made the game they wanted.

LOL....obsidion made fallout 1 and 2... or at least black isle did and those dudes made NV... so your saying fallouts been a fail since it was made... at least try to think man

I'm 16 hours into the game and have experienced -zero- bugs, so maybe they're not as glaringly obvious as you think.

Obsidian did a fine job with a fine property.

The fact that it's buggy is just part of the Fallout experience. I haven't played a Fallout game that wasn't bugged to hell. So far, this one's treated better than Fallout 3: GOTY - that froze on me about every 20 minutes.

I am genuinely happy you have encountered not a single bug in 16 hours of playing fallout new vegas. They're glaringly obvious on my game and plenty of other peoples.

Right... those good old days.

You mean the days where you had to consult DOS manuals for two days and rewrite your autoexec.bat and config.sys files 12 times in order to get them customized to run the new game you just bought (f&ck you, HIMEM), reassign IRQ and DMA slots to get the sound to work (and hope that it gave you BOTH sound and midi, instead of one or the other), and then hope you got a clean playthrough on your current save, because no patches were coming to fix any savegame-breaking bugs, short of something you could request from the developers after sitting on hold on the phone for 90 minutes paying long distance at $0.20/minute.

And many games of the era didn't have multiple save slots; the whole game just autosaved as you played - if it corrupted or got hung up on a game breaking bug, you were done.

I've been computer gaming since my parents bought me an Apple ][ plus in 1980 and gave me Ultima I for Christmas that year. You are definitely wearing the rose colored glasses. The biggest difference between now and then is that there wasn't anyone to complain to, so you just went out and did something else instead of fuming on a forum until 4 o'clock in the morning because your computer game isn't working.

Those old games run 100x smoother on an emulator than they did on the original platform; you can't give them credit for that.

This.

All I can ask is, "do you really think Obsidian wanted their game to be buggy?" If you think the answer is, "yes," then I'd like to know what you think they have to gain by it.

I've said this in other threads, other game forums, etc. : games get released with bugs because publishers need to meet their release dates. Bug fixing in software is very hard to estimate (time-wise). A lot of the time developers hit their "tag a version of the codebase for release" deadline before they're done fixing bugs. Unless they have a lot of pull with their publisher or they self-publish their games it's likely that the developer is contractually obligated to the publisher to meet their release date. It's then a matter of what the developer and publisher agreed on for post-release support.

Do I agree with this? No, I think publishers should svck it up and allow release dates to slip a bit to get bugs fixed. However, this costs them money, so then it becomes a blame game between the developer and publisher as to who's responsible. What I see Obsidian as being guilty of is accepting short timelines for projects that they have a difficult time adhering to. Perhaps this is a result of them being overly-ambitious when it comes to features in their games, I don't know. What I do know is that all bugs are fixed given enough time and resources. It's usually a shortage of one or both of these things that result in buggy games.

Some flames have been deleted. Don't call anyone a kid or a troll or stupid or anything else. Just stop it before I get my nunchucks out.

Be sure to add Fallout 2 and IWD 2 to that list too.

Yep, and don't forget about Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Wait...

How about this game...

Kotor 2 - Metascore: 85%
NWN2 - Metascore: 82%
New Vegas - Metascore: 86%

And if we're including Black Isle:

Icewind Dale - Metascore: 87%
Icewind Dale 2 - Metascore: 83%
Fallout - Universal acclaim...too old for metascore
Fallout 2 - Metascore: 86%
Planescape: Torment - Metascore: 91%


Wow, look at that long history of "failure." :rolleyes: Their only game that scores below 80% is Alpha Protocol (76%), and I personally really liked Alpha Protocol. It got beaten to hell in the U.S. for having dated graphics and, essentially, being an RPG.

I dont know, after playing for 20 hrs i'll say this game is better then Fallout 3.. and minus the hiccups its a great game.

Yeah it's buggy, but what game out there do you know of that have been absolutely bug free?

But I do agree in terms that I feel like some of these bugs should have been found during testing since they affect the game so adversely...

The bugs I've seen are nothing to cry over. Boo hoo a deathclaw got stuck on a rock.

Its good too see some people highligting that again.. I guess people don't read the whole thread..

Fact is some of the best games (atleast 2 top 3 games) of all time from my point of view is on that list

I still have Planescape Torment and I actually replayed it last year... its so much better then anything else even nowadays..

Edit: like I said earlier I never had a issue with Planescape Torment,,

I guarantee you that most of them were found in testing and they didn't have time to fix them all before their release deadline. I mean, the PC version got a 250MB patch the day after release. They had to have been working on that before the game was released.

Agreed.

They put me into [DANGER] after playing Alpha Protocol, and I was really looking forward to it.

I think they redeemed themselves with New Vegas. So far, I'm not regretting my purchase.