Look i understand BGS will most likely be releasing FO4 and I am not talking about that game. I will use your own words to make my point.

"it will likely be a blockbuster, selling tens of millions of copies" and those tens of millions of gamers will want Obsidian to work their magic for the next FO while BGS works on Skyrim6.

Zeni/Beth/Obsid does not owe iso/topdown view gamers anything and again I truely can't see them wasting $$$ and DEV time on a game that will not sell like an openworld RPGFPS.

That is the future of gaming.

Don't we already have games like Wasteland 2, Underrail, and Pillars of Eternity?

Its not like there's a complete desert of turn-based iso games. They sell to a niche, a niche that Fallout is not inside of anymore. I would much rather that Obsidian give us another Bethesda game like they did with New Vegas, and maybe try to make more changes like Bethesda makes from TES to TES. If they decide to make a game patterned after Wasteland 2, Underrail, and their own Pillars of Eternity, they will ultimately be making a game that has been tried many times before, and will be facing competition from many games that are at their heart very much the same.

I am, but you got the sardonic undertone.

If we take that statement as a discussion principle, then we simply can't discuss anymore. The game will be perfect for those who deem it perfect. End of discussion.

This is so casually spoken by so many, as though it were strange to protest; and yet the reverse is never mentioned, never acknowledged.
If TES were acquired, and released hence forth as Divinity:Original Sin clones... One could make the the mistake of pointing out that it would be just as bad, and for the same reasons; being polar opposite styles. But is is a mistake because the other person will likely agree simply because it's not FPP/whimsy [and that would be bad]; ignoring that the reasoning you hope to point out is that D:OS format is incompatible with the TES planned experience... just as the TES format is incompatible with the Fallout planned experience.


This was not an escape from niche [by Fallout], this was a disemboweling of all that it was. In this case the loss of the isometric and combat system is incidental ~the least of the problems. Think: Forcing John Williams to pen pop-songs.

The fact that TES Adventures Redguard, exists, and is considered a good TES game, despite being counter to EVERYTHING the series was "about", gameplay wise, kinda make that argument invalid.

But that is because the majority of TES fans define TES by its universe, and lore, rather then its gameplay, like most people do with most game series.

I personally would be very interested in seeing a TES game done in the Divinity: Original Sin style.

i'm not against someone wanting a fallout game in isometric style, its a nostalgia type of thing but for the most part gaming has left isometric games in the dust, for their time they were cool, once upon a time the game of life or monopoly was pretty cool, or the sega genesis and super nintendo games, they were fun at the time, but i like first person the best, to me its not even close, its kinda hard to be immersed in the a 2d or top down game once you've moved on to first person games, but apparently there's a few people who like isometric and thats ok but its a real niche thing now days.

If TES were, I certainly wouldn't be spending the next seven years complaining about it, I'd simply move on to another series and be done with it. Gaming isn't that big of an issue where I'm going to get all worked up over the handling, or mishandling of a series by a developer repeadedly for years on end.

I don't see either of these as so. I recall that first person games came first, I mean Bard's Tale is a first person game. Fallout is an isometric title that released 12 years after Bard's Tale; and BT was not the first FPP game for the PC. And then InXile releases an unrelated "the Bard's Tale" in the mid 2000's, and it's also top down; and then they released Wasteland 2 in the style of the Fallout series... Which I was happy to play [being FO starved], but I thought it a shame to copy a different series, instead of expanding upon the Wasteland namesake's format.

It's not a technology issue, it's a style of game , and what those games can offer. It's quite mutually exclusive too. Fallout 1 & 2 cannot best FO3 for what FO3 is good at, but Fallout 1 & 2 are good at being the Fallout series.

As for immersion (as the term gets applied)... It is inconsistent and depends on the game. I see it quite the opposite for some games. I know of two games that I have played, where more than 12 hours had passed before I stepped away ~And I didn't realize it had been so long. The first of these I thought I had played from 7 to 8, but I realized later that it was from 7PM to 8AM. Immersion comes from a high quality game ~regardless of the format, or perspective chosen for it.

So yes... I would certainly buy an Obsidian Fallout done without conditions by Bethesda; and hope that it was in the proper style of the series.

Are you being serious? John Williams being forced to create pop songs is the exact same as Bethesda making a game that is held up as a classic, but contains changes from the series?

Please take this seriously. When you say things like that, you demonstrate a huge disrespect for videogames, and for game developers. And not just the Bethesda developers, but the many original Fallout devs who have gone on record as saying that they are happy with Fallout 3, and the many of them that even made New Vegas.

To be fair though, I think The Elder Scrolls is better for having borrowed the concept of Perks from Fallout. The Elder Scrolls system is honestly fairly boring. The FEV Mutant SPECIAL/Elder Scrolls "Constellation" progression system offered a lot more depth then previously. Admittedly, you need mods to fully realize this system, but eh. Points for trying.

Actually, playing through New Vegas again for the first time in a few years...I'm honestly annoyed with Obsidian's handling of Fallout.

Guys.

Guys.

Put down the guns.

Guys.

But in all seriousness...New Vegas is a brilliant game, but one that gets a tad too cute with its references. The Mojave Wasteland is the frontier of NCR territory...yet somehow, every. single. person. you meet seems to herald from . The Hub, The Den, New Reno...heck, you even have a NPC that directly references the Cathedral from Fallout 1.

Okay, cool. Continuity! How can that be a bad thing, right?

You meet the Enclave Pilot that crashed the Vertibird outside of Klamath. You can find a crashed Highwayman with Microfusion Cells and a storage trunk in the back.

It's the same problem I had with Fallout 2...too many references.

The NCR, Followers of the Apocalypse, The Great Khans, the Brotherhood of Steel, Enclave...

All these big, iconic factions from the franchise's history. Resulting in all those new factions in New Vegas - Caesar's Legion, Mister House, The Boomers, The Fiends, Powder Gangers, The Three Families...

They...don't get out much. They all get their chance to shine, sure, but outside the Legion (Which has a whole host of problems all its own)...they have no real presence in the game's major storyline. It's strange that Mister House himself is almost immediately relegated to secondary importance immediately after you meet him - at least until it comes time to just kill him outright.

New Vegas just...it tries way, way too hard to be like "Hey, remember the old Fallout games?" much in the same vein Fallout 2's pop culture references bodily drag a person out of immersion. Obsidian had a lot of fantastic ideas and factions to explore in New Vegas. It's just a shame so much more time was devoted to the "Old Standbys". The NCR kinda had to be in the game in some capacity, but the rest I would have preferred to have been implimented more akin to the Enclave...very small impacts that the player almost has to go out of their way to find.

I want a game that uses the setting and tries something new (Like what Bethesda did with Lyon's Brotherhood - namely, removed that large stick protruding out the Brotherhood's backside), not a game that is banking on the nostalgia distracting the player from the fact their world design is the epitome of laziness. I found an abandoned shack today. It had two tin cans and a Healing Powder. This was worth the time and energy to design and implement, especially the time I took diverting off The Highway™ to go investigate. Meanwhile, there's a gigantic motel-looking complex next to Repconn Headquarters that is completely boarded up.

But that's just my two cents on the matter.

Its pretty interesting how many of the buildings in the Mojave are boarded up. I wonder if they were banking on the modders using them as locations for their own stories, which they have in droves. But yeah, you're right, I never really thought about it before, but there is a whole bunch of Californians knocking around the Mojave. You'd think it'd be primarily soldiers, but recently I was in West Side and was talking to a man running a store there named "Kalamth Bob". Yes, he is from Kalmath, right around the time some tribal passed through, how he made it from the prosperous California to a impoverished scrap heap that prides itself on compelte independence from the NCR's empire I don't really know.

I was passing through the 188 and a traveler remarked they'd walked from the Hub. They were going to rest there a few days and hit the Strip fresh.

They walked to the boundary of "Here There Be Dragons", Caesar's Legion a very real and present threat, to visit The Strip. Which is three casinos and a hotel.

I mean, I guess it's got one more casino on New Reno, but seriously? At least the guy from Reno had a valid reason to be in the backside of beyond! (Even if the whole time I'm just like "Huh. Doesn't THIS sound familiar.")

I think you can walk for a few minutes on the road from the 188 and be in clear sight of the Legion's fort on the other end of the river.

...Snipers? The Legion does have them, but nobody seems afraid that they are going to eat a .308 if they stare across the colorado too long. The Ranger's atleast talk about intercepting Legion patrols nearby Cottonwood, with long range firepower of course. It makes me wonder how intense the conflict actually is beyond whats presented in game, since the majority of the action seems to have taken place before the games start. The Legion taking Nelson and bombing Searchlight, and the desperate situation at Camp Forlorn Hope (Was it named Forlorn Hope before or after the Legion started the siege?). Just recently it was New Years in my game, going into 2282. Maybe they werent counting on characters with a hundred hours in them, but I would have loved if the war was a bit more dynamic, maybe even with a actual frontline instead of scattered skirmishes between squads of Legionarys and Troopers (Which always have the troopers win)

That's because NCR Troopers are better equipped then the standard Legionary.

Heck, the average Powder Ganger is generally better equipped then the standard Legionary.

Yeah, ive talked about that before in other parts of the forums. I think that the legion is so dangerously underequipped that I am suprised that they managed to survive the first war with the NCR. They have knives and football loricas charging into massed rifle fire, there's only a few ways that can go, none of them good for the legionaries.

Maybe its more about how the NCR is so overextended and bogged down that they haven't been able to take down the Legion, since going from grunt to grunt they are at such a huge advantage over the legion, just maybe they are dealing with such serious internal problems that its impossible for them to actually exploit that.

...Also the Powder Gangers have never survived the first shot of any of my weapons. From the start of varmint rifles and 9mm pistols, to my trusty hunting rifle and .45 auto that im using right now. I wonder what their HP actually is, I should look that up sometime.

It's one of the crimes of New Vegas really. The NCR is everywhere, but generally ineffectual. The outpost over by Primm can't be bothered to cross the bridge and at least relieve the civilians. All it would have taken is a single line of dialogue about them worried the Powder Gangers would bring the Vikki and Vance down on the heads of the residents if they moved in.

By that logic spinoff games should never be made, because they aren't able to fully milk millions from a franchise. Spinoffs exist to target "new" crowds (again, very ironic) and it doesn't HAVE to sell the same as a main title in the franchise. Think Halo Wars, a title that was a part of a franchise even larger than Fallout. While it wasn't exactly the greatest game, it still used the huge franchise name to expand to different parts of the Halo universe, and it did so in a way not possible in normal Halo titles.I hope you see my point that in some instances selling as many copies as humanly possible isn't what the goal is. Furthermore, you're almost implying that the entire community wouldn't be able to handle a Fallout spinoff title. If we've already been given Fallout 4, why would people be raving mad for an Obsidian Fallout? The majority of people that preferred New Vegas were fans of the classics anyway.

Weren't they prevented from acting due to the sluggish NCR bureaucracy? That is meant to be one of the recurring themes in the game anyhow. In game they were meant to be short on manpower and I believe they were, there were far too many men inside the Bison Steve for an operation to be a good idea.

I wish more series would be turned into re-skinned tes games. Sorry but it made fallout relevant and good, and could do the same to a lot of other series and then we'd all have tonnes of awesome games to play. Any great series you could think of, would be better if turned into a tes clone.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, but that statement is just your personal opinion. The words "relevant and good" could mean anything to anyone. In this instance you obviously enjoy the bastardization of the Fallout series but there are many that abhor it.

Most Powder Gangers are standard encounters. Very few of them are leveled encounters.

I had a dream about Fallout 4, in which you could switch between first person and isometric view.

Fallout New Vegas was definitely a step in the right direction and hopefully Bethesda will lean towards it in their design for Fallout 4. Though I doubt Bethesda will exceed FNV's design choices. But the way I see it, so long as they show that they are interested in distinguishing their two top franchises and want Fallout to lean more towards its own thing and go back to its roots then even baby steps are a good thing.

But Obsidian are doing their own thing and we shouldn't expect them to always be open for a Fallout project. And they may very well be a bit snubbed at how Bethesda didn't give them royalties when they were a point off at the metacritic scores.

Yeah, because that is the 'only' thing I implied with my post.

Let me clarify, the amount of money that a profit makes (so long as it is reasonable and not just marginal) does not matter, a profit is a profit for the budget that was set out for the project.

Meaning, a 5 million dollar game earing 10 million earns twice the budget put into the game. It means the game has made a profit on its own merits.

A 70 million dollar game earning 210 million might earn trice the amount of budget they set out for it.

Does that mean that the 70 million dollar game is 'more' profitable? Yes.

Does that mean that a 5 million dollar game is 'un-profitable'? No.

'That' was my point with the post.

That it is not about earning 'all the money'.

It is simply about earning enough money to consider the project profitable.

If the triple-a titles are profitable (and they are) then they can continue making them.

But if a cRPG is profitable within its own budget then I don't see why those couldn't be pursued as well.

i agree about the metacritic scores, i think they were only off by a point, and obsidian had limited time, even though they were snubbed they did say they wanted to make another one, do you think there is any possibility its in early development, i mean fallout 3 came out in late 2008 and NV came out in 2010 i can't remember what month but thats 2 years after fallout 3 so if they're gonna release their own sequel it would expect it to me a couple years after fallout 4 which if fallout 4 comes out either right before christma or sometime middle of next year i would think obsidian would already have some team doing something.

The hell does that even mean? Why do you think limiting Obsidian is a good idea? They did a good job of establishing their own stuff, apart from Bethesda and East Coast.

If anything, I'd rather have them run the story/llore show as opposed to Bethesda that only rehashed the previous titles, because really - Beth's storytelling always seems like an afterthought in their games.

(not surprising, since the main focus is exploration etc.)