An Odd Question about CHIM : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:03 pm

Mk said it was Kim.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:48 pm

I agree with El Breton's first explanation, but I like Naajaw's pixel theory, as that has always been a thought in the back of my head while considering Chim. BTW El Breton, I don't think you digressed in your's, seemed very spot on, and it made sense too.

I always pronounced it as Ch'I'm, but I am most likely wrong, interestingly I always pronounced Chimer like I do chimney.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Do you recognize the existance of other people as reality? If so, then yes.

Historical records suggest that results would range from the abrupt disappearance, without explanation, of one person, to generations-long feud, to a world war. It depends on the people in question.

Around here, the main result of that is usually either to offer brief, polite greetings, or ignore one another...

Wow. For the first time in a long time I'm not sorry I came into the Lore Subforum. Thank you.

[and props to Lorus for that clockwork watch anology, makes more sense to simple minds, like mine]

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:29 pm

I have read the Loveletter. I recall perusing Vehk's Teachings once. I guess I'll take a closer look at them. Are there any specific Lessons I should look at?

My experience thus far with Kirkbride's texts is that it's a lot like looking at your own nose. You know it's there, and you can get a vague idea of its shape, but it's just outside your direct line of sight. Also, if you stare at it too long, you'll go cross-eyed.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stare at my nose for a while. Really hard.

The nice bits are very nice - but other bits would give Oroubouros a stomach/headache.

I thought it was pronounced Chim (with a silent p)

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:40 am

Relatedly, how does one pronounce CHIM? Is it "CHĬM", "KĪM", what?

As in "CHIM Basinger."

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Dont know about in theory... but somehow I think that two beings with CHIM will be smart enough to avoid such needless confontations? Maybe I am wrong though. :shrug:

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:07 pm

Dont know about in theory... but somehow I think that two beings with CHIM will be smart enough to avoid such needless confontations? Maybe I am wrong though. :shrug:

Partially why I came to adopt my theory. Though it would seem to me to be more WISE rather than smart, if you get what I'm saying.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:39 pm

Partially why I came to adopt my theory. Though it would seem to me to be more WISE rather than smart, if you get what I'm saying.

Wise, smart... the point is that one who becomes a part of Godhead will not be dumb enough fight another who is also a part of a Godhead... unless CHIM is not becoming part of the Godhead :shrug: . Still, no omniscient, onmipotent and (omnipresent?) being will be dumb enough to fight another like him(her)self.

But I am just repeating myself here, so I'll drop it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:53 pm

If you're explaining CHIM, then you're getting there, but still have to take it the next step, being: All of the cogs make up the watch, and one of them may realize that it is part of the watch (to give thoughts and feeling to watch-cogs). But at the same time, it also knows that it is the watch, in it's entirety - it's existence is the individualistic reflection of the entire watch, a manifestation of a concept that is beyond the understanding of the other watch-cogs.

The reason why everyone is having such a hard time explaining it is beacuse its unexplainable. Its a paradox, an oxymoron. Nivrana meet Satanism. Its no logical, not possible.

Talos had CHIM (if you can trust Mankar Camoran)
CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled.
- Mythic Dawn Commentaries

Well I don't. The man couldn't even name the Daedric realms correctly, not to mention that he failed at CHIM. He learned his [censored] from Dagon, not exactly the most reliable source. Mankar is operating on the same assumption many on the lore forum do (the one I outlined earlier).

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:02 pm

Well I don't. The man couldn't even name the Daedric realms correctly, not to mention that he failed at CHIM. He learned his [censored] from Dagon, not exactly the most reliable source. Mankar is operating on the same assumption many on the lore forum do (the one I outlined earlier).

Sermons and Teachings mention it too. Two-Headed Ruling King and Master, respectively. So I think you can forgo such exact definitions, it's pretty clear what Mankar means there. Tiber jumped.

Mankar is also rather fond of the term Master btw.

I think of CHIM as realizing your nothing but pixels in a game. Because, every time it's mentioned, there seems to be something about realizing that nothings relevant.

Not a game, the game is a symbolic interpretation of an idea. The idea, the people and the world solely exists in your head.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:07 pm

Not a game, the game is a symbolic interpretation of an idea. The idea, the people and the world solely exists in your head.

Sort of like waking up to realising that you are a dream, a thought, in someone elses mind, and as such, dont really exist unless that someone wills you to exist; yet, you exist because if you didnt exists, you wouldnt think, act, etc. Complex little thing CHIM is. :shrug:

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:15 pm

So does Chim give super-powers and what not? I guess it could, but no readon it necessarily should.

And the "one stands there but none stand there yet", does he refer to Chim or something else? Because, the way I've understood it, once someone stands there -- that's it. Game over.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:03 am

Well I don't. The man couldn't even name the Daedric realms correctly, not to mention that he failed at CHIM.

Actually, that is mostly due to the fact that whoever put those lines in the game got them from a very first-draft text and did not bother to do any fact checking, as should have been done.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Well, yes, that is what I meant. Basically, I just was explaining the nature of existence that a person (or cog in the anology I used) must realize to achieve CHIM. I just left out the next step of the actual realization by the individual/cog, which is CHIM, that you mention. Of course, adding that step probably makes it easier to understand.

So CHIM, then, is the whole thing in Hinduism where the a being realizes it is God (otman or whatever I don't have my notes)...that the IS/ME separated itself and tricked itself into seeing the "second" itself as IS NOT or NOT ME, also tricking NOT ME into thinking it was not IS/ME but a separate entity. Thus CHIM is the realization of IS NOT/NOT ME that it actually is IS/ME. All is one. All is IS.

Close or no?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:47 am

The reason why everyone is having such a hard time explaining it is beacuse its unexplainable. Its a paradox, an oxymoron. Nivrana meet Satanism. Its no logical, not possible.

Wrong.

So does Chim give super-powers and what not? I guess it could, but no readon it necessarily should.

And the "one stands there but none stand there yet", does he refer to Chim or something else? Because, the way I've understood it, once someone stands there -- that's it. Game over.

In context, yes, There Can Only Be One!! ...but that's because Morrowind isn't a multiplayer game. And that's part of why people have a hard time figuring it out. It's being explained by a person whose primary awareness exists in a a different version of reality. And it's not being explained TO YOU. But it is being explained to an identity you control.

So CHIM, then, is the whole thing in Hinduism where the a being realizes it is God (otman or whatever I don't have my notes)...that the IS/ME separated itself and tricked itself into seeing the "second" itself as IS NOT or NOT ME, also tricking NOT ME into thinking it was not IS/ME but a separate entity. Thus CHIM is the realization of IS NOT/NOT ME that it actually is IS/ME. All is one. All is IS.

Close or no?

...what?

Maybe. Sort of. But there's a bit more to it than that.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:33 pm

Wrong.

Excuse me?

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:51 pm

Excuse me?

It isn't impossible.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:43 am

It isn't impossible.

It IS a paradoxical oxymoron and people HAVE filled threads arguing against its existence or struggling with the concept. Of course, they missed the elephant in the room, which was that you can't disprove an impossible idea by touting evidence that it must not exist because- well, duh.

So if that's not what you meant, then post more than one [censored] word next time.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:59 am

It IS a paradoxical oxymoron and people HAVE filled threads arguing against its existence or struggling with the concept. Of course, they missed the elephant in the room, which was that you can't disprove an impossible idea by touting evidence that it must not exist because- well, duh.

So if that's not what you meant, then post more than one [censored] word next time.

It's not an oxymoron. It is a bit paradoxical, but it's absolutely not impossible in the context in which it is presented -- it's quite real. I'm not sure what is meant by calling it "illogical."

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 am

Wise, smart... the point is that one who becomes a part of Godhead will not be dumb enough fight another who is also a part of a Godhead... unless CHIM is not becoming part of the Godhead :shrug: . Still, no omniscient, onmipotent and (omnipresent?) being will be dumb enough to fight another like him(her)self.

But I am just repeating myself here, so I'll drop it.

Point of fact Manuel - If you accept The (censored) Trial then Vivec was dumb enough to fight Azura who (because he was 'all') was himself ... now how dumb is that? and that is another part of why I dislike The Trial - paradox or no ...

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:39 am

Azura is a small part of the Godhead, and probably does not really realize it on a full level (cannot see the I and all that stuff). Azura is just a daedra, while Vehk is "omniscient, omnipitent" all powerful. he and azura are certainly not equal. CHIM is realizing you are the Godhead, as we are already part of it to begin with.

besides, who said that revenge was smart? revenge is pure emotion, and that is what vehk acted upon. he did for [censored] and gigles, he did it to punish azura for what she did to his people.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:34 am

Point of fact Manuel - If you accept The (censored) Trial then Vivec was dumb enough to fight Azura who (because he was 'all') was himself ... now how dumb is that? and that is another part of why I dislike The Trial - paradox or no ...

Daedra do not have CHIM. I asked this question specifically here once. Daedra are part of the Wheel, they cannot have CHIM.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:13 am

You're gonna have to explain that one.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:42 am

Chim is a thing of Anu and Padomay, a thing of I-am-You, a unification of parts, the et'Ada chose sides or echoed the original conflict and split the Aurbis into two halves. Exactly the opposite.

Sp I don't see Mehrunes going for it any time soon, but the Leaper Demon King might be persuaded to make the last leap. Hell, he'll probebly want to leap on because he only jumped into this mess in the first place.

Anybody wants to blow up Tamriel and see what happens?

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:08 pm

You're gonna have to explain that one.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=740988&hl=