Except neither of them were. Both are 'Chosen' from square one (as opposed to the prophecy with Alduin not being explained until half way through the main quest) and Oblivion went as far as to tell you the ENTIRE ARC in a single line of dialogue. Even in Arena and Daggerfall, your character was special. Highly capable and highly respected, basically the James Bond of Tamriel... Your birth ALWAYS marks you for prophecy, being Dragonborn was nothing new. You were just slightly better with a very esoteric skillset, and that set you up as being marked for a particular prophecy.

The extent of you being "chosen" in Oblivion is limited to the ramblings and dreams of an old man who could predict the future and the Elder Scrolls themselves. Still the point is anyone with enough skill could have accomplished what the Champion of Cyrodill did. The dude had no special skills or anything. He functioned and acted in a way that any normal human is capable of, albeit with tremendous capability depending on what the player decides but they are still a normal person nonetheless.

The Dovahkiin on the other hand was overpowered from the start. You happened to be the only person sans Miraak who could permanently kill a dragon, could learn powers which required normal beings decades to master within an instant, you are pretty much a subgradient of the Chief Aedra Divine and you are arguably one of the many aspects of the most powerful being in existence.

Tell me that how the COC's background is comparable to that.

While technically true (Hero, Event, yada yada), there is a marked difference between how Daggerfall and Morrowind and Skyrim are set up. Sure, we might be a part of some prophecy, but that doesn't mean the entire arc of the MQ needs to be devoted to "Ahhhh, the [BLANK] has foretold your coming!". I think that's what gets people the most, is when how the entire story is basically about you being prophisized doing something wacky. Nobody cares if the Agent was or not, because the story didn't revolve around it at all hours of the day.

Frankly, I too kind of want to move away from it a bit. Its not something that needs to be remarked on at all hours of the day, and it hasn't been a well written to not make it overtly cliche either.

^Uriel's own wacky visions, but those are subdued. It sort of depends on how you deal with your own character, whether they were under divine auspices or some otherwise unlucky schmuck. Basically a reverse Morrowind, without anyone to upstage you.

Some things that I think TES 6 could benefit from are:

The return of classes and skills such as unarmed.

-Needs no explanation, this so called "streamlining" is getting rid of a lot of replayability in my opinion.

An improved melee combat system that allows for parrying with weapons and shields for a more fluid combat experience.

-One way I thought that this could function would involve timing attacks. For example, if an enemy and the player attack simultaneously the character with a higher weapon skill has a higher chance of parrying the attack, leaving the other open for a riposte. This would also make it possible to defend yourself when dual wielding weapons.

-This would also require better AI that don't spam attacks and then randomly block for no reason.

-If AI could also circle the player and wait for an opening to attack, instead of running straight in with no thought for self preservation that would also be cool.

Quick cast defensive spells that allow characters to defend from attacks.

-Some suggestions for this could be a spell that needs precise timing, but if used correctly can deflect an incoming spell. Against melee users, the ability to push back an enemy to open them up for an attack would help for melee defence.

Improved stealth

-Enemies don't forget you if detected and will constantly be in an alert stage once they know something's up (Their friend gets shot with a bow and they actively look for you).

-Being able to pin yourself against cover and peek round.

-Audio cues when you get spotted, even if that's just an enemy shouting that they found you.

More mobility and verticality in area design?

-In my opinion this isn't that important but it would be cool to be able to climb structures to some extent.

A guild progression system like that in Morrowind

-In Morrowind you actually had to be competent at your craft to progress through the ranks of a guild, nuff said.

A more lifelike world

-People acknowledge the state of the world after events.

-Dynamic NPC inventories: clothes change, inventory is affected by what an npc does and their schedule (If an npc is on their way to the market, they have more gold on them. After they purchase goods, these can then be stolen by the PC from their inventory).

-Random events happen to NPCs such as going to other cities on errands(In the case of shopkeepers, their apprentice will take over for the time that the shop owner is gone)

-People actually change in wealth depending on in game events

-Actual town size towns instead of hamlets being called cities.

-Random NPCs that wander around such as mercenaries that take jobs, then will actually go to a location and carry the job out.

-Disposition so that people react accordingly to what you do to them.

Character choices and roleplaying

-The ability to be the bad guy and start/join a bandit gang.

-Choices that matter, such as having to make difficult decisions that result in different outcomes.(Something akin to The Witcher or Mass Effect here).

All of these are my own ideas and are my personal opinion on what should be in TES 6.

-Edit-

Some things I forgot to add are:

-The possibility of exploring skills like magic further than what is known by ingame NPCs to make it seem as if the player character is actually leaving a legacy by discovering things. Sort of post-mastery skill progression.

-More unique items. It might just be me, but collecting all of the unique items was a part of the game I thoroughly enjoyed, I feel as if in fallout 4 this has been detracted from in the form of legendary items which are essentially just generic items that have a special ability. Make these items look and sound unique too.

-Another dig at fallout 4 - more interesting locations to explore. The only problem I had with this in fallout 4 was that in between the interesting areas, there is a wealth of boring and generic locations seemingly put into the world for the purpose of gathering crafting materials. This needs to be addressed in TES 6

-Weapon and armor modifications. Something that was really well done in fallout 4 was the crafting, a similar system for creating new gear in the next TES would be awesome.

Murder-god capable of laying waste to entire armies because he's literally genocide re-born? Or should we totally discount what is quite probably the literal word-of-god on the Pelinal thing?

Or how about the Nerevarine being the living vessel for the single most successful Daedric Champion in the history of Tamriel? Or should we totally ignore a Daedric Prince's word on that and take the input of a single old woman living in a tent in a volcanic wasteland?

The Dragonborn, like the other Heroes before him, as a very specific advantage in a very specific set of circumstances. If the Dragons weren't coming back, do you know how useful that ability to absorb Dragon Souls would be? About as useful as a $50 bill in a Roman-era bar. Just like the CoC's penchant for Murder-killing wouldn't have really be useful if it weren't for an invading army, or the Nerevarine's Daedra-soul wouldn't have been useful if he didn't need to wear Moon-and-Star.

Maybe. I don't think the old Class system needs to return at all, and frankly should stay gone as it was. We do need a way that does influence how our characters start out though and influence how proficiently our skills can advance. Frankly, Skill trees could easily cover that. As for Skills...some do, some don't. Some old Daggerfall skills could be incorporated into Skill trees, for instance. Juries out on Hand to Hand for me though.

The question of whether or not they actually are Nerevar to the Daedra in question is effectively nil. This is one of those things that's more up for the player to decide more then anything.

Even then you had to beat a couple of ghosts or pass several tests to even obtain these overpowered relics in the first place. I'm perfectly aware of what Pelinal is capable of in lore, however, this is kinda of moot since we don't even know if it's canon that COC was in fact the person who became the Divine Crusader? I'm mainly talking about the vanilla game otherwise we also have to take into consideration COC becoming Sheo as well.

Definitely agree with you on the removal of the class system. I hate having to have an archetypical label for what my character is. Regardless of whether he is more skill in magic, swords or archery I feel as though those labels place way too many restrictions on what my character can do if I am RPing. I just want my character to be whoever I want him to be. Yea I know you could create your own classes, but then again I feel creating your own class ruins the entire point of the class system in the first place. There is also the fact that classes don't do much besides affecting the level of some of your skills.

To be fair, this is a "feature" of every single protagonist in general and not exclusive to the CoC. They aren't anything remarkable compared to other heroes. As far as the main games go, the Dovahkiin is the only one so far that has abilities that sets them apart from the previous heroes. (I guess it can be argued the Nerevarine did to some extent.)

I agree, I'd much rather have a more mundane hero. I mean, yeah, blablabla Elder Scrolls blablabla prophecy, but at least don't hit us over the head with it constantly like Skyrim did. Keep it more in line with Arena/Daggerfall or even Morrowind. Hell, it would be great if screwing up were an option, too. Imagine either passing the torch or receiving it from a failed "Hero."

Considering how the expansions have been handled in all 3 games, it's a safe bet that yes, the two are one in the same.

I'm not saying that Skyrim's handling of it was... great. It wasn't. The number of Shouts should probably have been carved way down (which would have expanded Magic as well) and the whole Dragonborn thing should have kicked in later as to make it more a focus of the questline and not the game as a whole. They also shouldn't have pulled the 'N-n-n-n-n-n-n-Nerevarine!' stupidity as early as they did.

But being 'special' isn't the problem. In fact, it's more of an issue (at least to me) if you're 'Normal', because it falls into the trap "You can do anything you set your mind to". Many people seem to think that having a mundane individual rising above the din and achieving greatness is more fulfilling, and being 'Special' is pandering. But i see it the opposite way. When effort is all it takes to achieve Hero status, what's the point? Why isn't the world full of Heroes? Why even bother with the threat when it's literally just a matter of trying really hard. The 'Special Snowflake' dynamic is more pressing, more natural, and frankly, far less pandering. Not anyone can accomplish a task. Ulfric Stormcloak has no more ability to stop Alduin as does Jimmy the farm-hand. It doesn't matter what people may WANT to be or do, that WANT isn't enough.

'When everyone's special, no one is' works in reverse too. Because it assume an even playing field for everyone. Which castrates any real sense of impending doom.

The main difference between TES and other games, however is... You don't HAVE to engage in that story if you don't want to. Don't want to be a Hero? Don't do the main questline. Simple as that. The games already have a built in avoidance mechanism for anyone who doesn't want to be the 'Special Snowflake'. But if you take that away, if you change the system, you strip those who DO from being able to.

But if the main quest is centred more on mortal issues, such as an invading army, subterfuge, politics etc. Then our non-prophesied normal player character can do the main quest. It doesn't have to be set around a divine world ending threat.

The two don't need to be mutually exclusive. What I would like to see is the more esoteric stuff start coming into play much later on in a theoretical MQ, while at the same time being very, very sparse with the whole prophecy business. Hell, you don't need to frame it through that narrative in the first place.

TES usually doesn't go for this, but it would be cool if there were radically different branching paths in a MQ that still ends up leading to the same logical conclusion with the Big Bad dead on the ground. If Skyrim were a radically different game, the game would have opened up after A Blade in the Dark quest was completed. We would either focus on the Blades and actually rebuilding them in-depth, the "traditional" route which leads us to Paarthurnax and going from there, the Civil War quest lines that would require dealing with the Stormcloaks or Imperials (Which would be similar in structure, since getting rid of the dragons is probably pretty big priority), or an Independent route, which would mean gathering Companions or connections with the various guilds in order to get the job done. It would require Skyrim being a much different game then we got, but I think having different ways to progress through the MQ would be nice for once. It gives us the player, regardless of the whole "chosen one" if it has to be there far more agency then we're usually given.

It probably isn't the series style, but I wonder how a game where there are people around to compete with the PC would play out. People would be fully aware of their capabilities, for one, and they might do a better job of sending thugs or collecting bounties. Sort of in the style of the Ebony Warrior in Skyrim (though there's the whole "he prolly a god Beth seems eager to forget about" thing). Or Gaenor, who the EW is most likely based on.

Closest we've gotten are the followers we find in Skyrim. I'd love to see that be expanded and actually find people doing their own thing around Tamriel. It's kind of lonely being the only One-Man Army at a given time.

I mean, I already play the games in a similar way but having it be part of the base game would be amazing.

i would also like to see this, however i think for that to work, we need a bigger game world.

Maybe an alternative would be to be able to choose a class that affects your starting gear and skills, sort of in a similar way to Dark Souls, as opposed to affecting skill/level progression like in previous TES games. That way you can ultimately play how you want but it kick starts you for a certain way of playing the game.

-Edit- On another note, I would personally like to see a survival/hardcoe mode since the game is likely to be in Hammerfell or Elsweyr.

the fact he becomes Pelinals Successor means he is likely Shezarrine

I really hope the developers take some notes from the mod community.

For example: Body slide and RaceMenu.

Why wasn't something like this included in Fallout 4?

I can hardly bring myself to play Skyrim anymore because of the terrible character customization. I've often wanted to revisit it, but since I'm not that great with mods, it has kept me from starting back playing it. I really hope, if nothing else, they at least do a good job in this aspect.

Dunno, I use to consider the COC as Pelinal come again and Sheogorath as well. Given that Pelinal is known for being psychotic at times, I think it fits in perfectly with the COC also mantling the Mad God Later on as well.

However, it seems everyone else I talk to believes it to not be canon.

Well Fallout 4's customization is far more superior than Skyrim's ever was for sure. I mean for the first time in a Bethesda game you can actually be fat. As far as I recall Amiel Richton was the only character in the history of Bethesda games before Fallout 4 that was actually fat.

My essential TES VI checklist:

-NO MORE SEPARATE INTERIOR CELLS: Seriously, this one has been a very long time coming. If Beth wants to wall-off cities because of their density, that's one thing, but every cave, ruin and building should be directly integrated into the rest of the world, not sectioned off with a loading screen.

-MORE ENEMY DIVERSITY: Enough with the generic wolves, bears, skeletons, and mountain lions. 90% of Morrowind's monsters were cool, original, otherworldly things, let's go back to building Nirn as a place that's drastically different from Earth.

-BETTER, MORE DIVERSE COMBAT: Games like Dying Light and Chivalry have proven that First Person Melee can be done well, so I doubt people will be as forgiving of the series's overly simplistic combat in the next entry. Giving us weapon types that function differently ala the Souls series (poking spears, bashing maces, slicing swords) is a must.

-FALLOUT 4's LOOT AND LEGENDARY SYSTEM: Borderlands did it right first with their randomly generated "badass" foes, and FO4 definitely made the right choice by incorporating it into the typical Bethesda structure. The potential for unique loot made dungeons worth exploring and encounters worth enduring, as opposed to the typical Skyrim experience of finding yet another carbon-copy Ebony Long Sword.

-BRING BACK SPELLCRAFTING: Creating broken spells was hours of fun. This is a minor addition that offers major value, and it was sorely missed in Skyrim.

-NO LOADING SCREEN ENEMY SPOILERS: A minor one, but it svcks to avoid spoilers on a game for months just to have a random loading screen hit you with "Hey, did you know there are Falmer in this game? Bet that would've been cool to discover on your own! LOL"

1-Argee

2-Agree

3-Agree

4- Haven't player FO4, so N/A

5-Agree

6-Agree

Really, as long as they include Orcs (especially female Orcs), I'll be somewhat happy

I don't think it should be. More than prophecies, more than demi-God heroes and weird metaphysical paradigms, TES has ALWAYS had world-ending mystical threats. From the Reign of Jagar Tharn to the awakening of Numidium, Dagoth Ur, the Oblvion Crisis and the Alduin... There has always been some kind if existential threat, and there always SHOULD be.


But this is where Skyrim excelled, conceptually, because it offered alternatives. Unlike Daggerfall, where the mundane, political squabbles were part of that mythic threat, Skyrim offered the political angle as a totally seperate Quest line. It created a situation where you could still deal with a mundane issue without being that 'Special Snowflake' rather than linking the two together. This division instantly creates more potential fantasies which you can act out through your characters.


Which I suppose is a decent launching point regarding quests in general... There are basically 3 models of Questing in RPGs... Lots of quests with few choices. Few quests with many choices. And a hybrid of the two. TES typically focuses more on the former category, while Fallout on the latter. Which, I think, is appropriate. Given the number of factions, depth of the world, context of its regions and ease of communication and history makes having a more divided, choice-driven series of quests more limiting. So, instead, the design favours numerous largely self-contained stories focusing in specific regions, factions or even individuals, as opposed to a few stories which feature branching and alternate endings.


I actually much prefer this model to, say, Fallout or The Witcher, in which you have fewer stories but more branching. It makes the world seem larger and more alive, because everything doesn center around a singular plot. New Vegas was probably the worst example of this, where practically every quest points you to the Hoover Dam conflict. The world ends up feeling more alive, because you end up with people who either don't know about other problems, or just don't care.


Some branching is alright, but too much causes multiple quest lines centered around the same story, which limits the total number of stories you can deal with. Again, New Vegas is a great example here, because while it included many quest lines, there was really only one story. And that limits the ropeplaying opportunities available.


For the sake of clarity, I like to divide things up. I like things having clearly defined meanings which allows you to quickly sort through what you want in order to get to more specific ideas without having to pick through everything just to get there. That's why I lime categorical dialogue branches (which are heavily favoured in the new Dialogue system) and inventory tabs and a clean and concise Journal system. And that's why I like to break up what are traditionally considered 'Quests' into categories...


Quests: multi-stage story driven adventures. Ranging from Potema and the Foresworn to the Guilds to Alduin or Dagoth Ur, these are the primary stories of the game. Minimal decisions, minimal use of Radiant features, and a focus on characters and storytelling. These are the things that might get referenced in future titles. At minimum, I'd say 6 of these (4 guilds, the main/mythic quest, and a more mundane/political one) but I would personally rather more. Skyrim had at least 10.


Missions: Short adventures of little to no historical significance that are of a more personal or social orientation. In my time of Need, Aryen Family Sword, Missing Husband, that sort of thing. These allow for more decision making and branching, because they're insignificant to the history if Tamriel, even if they may subtly change the gameworld you experience. Limited use if Radiant systems for the placement of objectives, in some cases.


Jobs: simple tasks generated through Radiant systems that offer m type more than a single outing or source of income. Bounties, Resource collection, Merchant Escorts and the like.

Nah, leave that mess of an old system gone. It belongs in the Construction Set, not the game-proper. That doesn't mean some kind of Spell Crafting system isn't sorely needed, but bring back the old one is like sewing a gengrenous leg back on.


Bullox... Double post... That's not what I wanted to do...

Shields are amazing tools, and frankly I've never seen a treatise or manual that discribes them as a strictly defensive weapon. They're a hard, blunt instrument which can easily kill a man if used properly, and with enough force, but which also offers ample protection against all but the heavies strikes (depending on the shield design).


But the issue is mechanically implementing it. Skyrims Shield Bash was a start, but it lacks the diversity and draw-backs to really highlight using a shield... It's a large, cumbersome tool, and in order to make it deadly you need to leave yourself rather exposed... Bit a good, solid hit with the rim is more than enough to collapse an unprotected skull or break a limb...


I really want to see more done with shields, at least offering variets of them, but without making controls and interactions confusingly complex, I dont know how to approach it. I'm rather patiently watching Kingdom Come because of this, because it's an issue they're going to run face first into, and I'd like to see how they deal with it.

I agree that shields could use some more diversity. I think just expanding on offensive abilities for shields in the forms of perks (or techniques, if you'd prefer) would be a start.

Other than that, I'm not sure about making numerous kinds of shields. Maybe just a "light shield" or "heavy shield" would be a nice place to start (better than nothing, at least). I'm definitely not well-versed with weapon categories/nuances, though.

Anyway, something else I've been wanting to talk about. I'd like to see more boss encounters with bosses that don't just seem like more powerful versions of typical enemies that we'd encounter. More boss enemy types that have unique abilities or movement styles would be nice, in my opinion. Like maybe a unique troll boss enemy that regenerates profusely and won't stay down until their corpse is burned with fire by a certain amount. Or something like a dragon boss with unique scripts that allow it to interact with its environment to unleash powerful elemental attacks. Ultimately, more unique enemies, fleshed out boss fights, and abilities/nuances to each enemy type that create a necessity of thinking about one's approach towards different encounters. There could still be some enemies that do basic lunge attacks, like a typical rat, wolf, or bear, but the more variety in terms of ability and movement types, the better, IMO.