I agree for the most part. I think that the capital city should be done in a similar fashion as Vivec or maybe IC. I feel like cities could do with an increase of scale by maybe 1.5 but only to the extent that major portions of the city/citizens don't feel like they're filler.


As for settlements, I like the size as they were in Skyrim or even a lot of what I've seen of the settlements in Morrowind. A few Skaal village-sized settlements would be nice, I think.


I think one of the more important aspects to me for settlements, especially smaller ones, is having architectural diversity. They could do this very well in a Hammerfell game, if they made crown, forebear, and lhotunic settlements look architecturally different. Even Dragonstar-related factions should have their own nordic-inspired styles as well. Some imperial-inspired stuff would be nice as well.


I want to move away from similar-esque villages all around.


If we had the option of managing a city/settlement, I'd prefer to have the chance to manage/build/rebuild it to perhaps the size of Kvatch rebuilt/typical sized city in Oblivion, like Bruma, Chorrol, or Skingrad.

This is a tricky subject to tackle. I for one think, and I think a lot of people agree, that the current scale for TES cities is far too smalll. I walk around Whiterun and I don't feel like it's a city. If anything it's a small settlement. It's funny to me when I talk to the Battleborns or the Greymanes and they tell me they have been in Whiterun since the beginning... Oh really? How long ago was "the beginning?" Five years? Ten maybe? Judging by the size of the population it couldn't have been too long ago. There are maybe 15-20 NPCs tops in the entire city. That's two maybe three family's and hardly a city! On top of that only a handful of those NPCs are "fleshed out" with more than a single line of dialogue let alone a deep or interesting narrative. That's a problem to me.

Now I am not an advocate of making a city of several hundred NPCs all able to carry on in conversation with the PC for hours. I understand the technical limitations to that as well as the sheer amount of work and time that would go into a project like that. And I also understand that to throw in several hundred NPC bots who have no dialogue attached to them and that the PC cannot interact with would go against much of what Bethesda has established in their past games but there needs to be some kind of a balance. It's difficult for me to feel like I am in a real, breathing city when there are only a handful of NPCs walking around. But it's also frustrating to see a beautiful simulated city that I, as the PC, can hardly interact with. I'm not sure I have any answer to this conundrum but it is something that desperately needs to be answered. I need more families then simply the Battleborns and Greymane's to make up a Capital city...

Edit....

Okay, so I may have been a bit hasty with my "15-2- NPCs tops in the entire city" comment. Turns out there are around 70+ NPCs in the entire city but that seems to be counting NPCs that never really leave Dragonsreach, and NPCs that are delegated to outside the city in outskirts. Regardless of what the exact number is it still feels dismally small. I'm not sure what a good number would be but I just feel as if the city feels more like a little kid's playset than a living, breathing, real city.

If it came down to it, I'd be fine with the solution being to have one large city and a few smaller outlying settlements, as in five tops, with sizes ranging from Riverwood to Whiterun sized and the real city being Vivec or IC sized and housing most of the character interaction and general non-dungeon/wilderness content. I don't think any of the provinces would really work well for that, though, so it would probably require doing a portion of one province again.

Frankly, as awesome as it would be to have multiple IC sized settlements, I don't see Bethesda ever getting enough time to make that work.

What are you talking about? Video games developed by Bethesda Game Studios could use more animations and schedules for the NPC's. All while preserving the style of video games that Bethesda Game Studios develops.

Taking notes from CD Projekt RED's The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt to develop The Elder Scrolls VI won't damage the The Elder Scrolls video games that we come to know from the way Bethesda Game Studios develops them as long as they stick to the way they develop their video games.

All video games developed by Bethesda Game Studios needs more animations and schedules from their NPC's and bigger cities now with the power the hardware the PC's, PlayStation 4 (PS4), and Xbox One have.

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the hordes of generic nameless NPCs that Witcher and Assassin's Creed games use. I do want bigger settlements, but since the problem is man-hours they might need to cut the number of settlements down to make that work.

The Witcher 3's NPC's aren't perfect but they aren't completely dead. I agree I wouldn't like mindless drones everywhere, but they could easily craft some simple NPC's just so it doesn't look so dead everywhere. (Of course also having lots of meaningful ones too)

I'm with Dargor on this one. The cities in The Witcher don't feel alive. They feel crowded. No ammount of animation solves the core issue they have. Their populations aren't NPCs, they're filler. Drones. Cardboard cutouts. By trying to simulate the hustle and bustle of a city, they strip the soul from it. The lack of interactivity, peersonality or even persistence makes it impossible to form any sort of personality or even attachment. It feels like the targets on an obstacle course, just there to take up space and block your shots. I will personally be very disappointed if Bethesda tries to mimic that sort of design any more than Fallout 4 already does (though it has the advantage of persistence, so NPCs can develop quirks that give them a degree of personality).


That's not to say that Bethesda doesn't need to work on things like animations or volume... But those should never come at the expence of the characters themselves. I'd rather a 'city' populated only by 10 fleshed out characters, than Wild Hunt's city of ten thousand drones.


And for the record, I used to think the opposite. Wild Hunt is what changed my mind.



As for the engine thing... The only potential limitation of the Engine proper is the means it uses to process and refresh information. The graphics, physics, audio, scripting... It's all part of a modular system that changes not just with one version to another, but practically between every game running in the same engine.


The arguement that Fallout runs in the same engine as Morrowind, while sorta-technically true, is also horribly misleading. The current version of Gamebryo bears almost no similarities to the engine in 2001. It's not just 'modded', it's been constantly updated and changed. Claiming they are the same thing is like claiming a Pentium 233 is the same as an I7 just because they both run on silicon transistors. And that's not even considering the fact that Creation, while it does use some Gamebryo code, is NOT Gamebryo.


The only real limitations are A: the systems that the games are designed for (IE the consoles, since PC master race and all) . B: Bethesda's ability to use the tools. And C: whether or not Bethesda is using a sequential or parallel programming framework (it's problems with physics at high frame rates seem to indicate it's sequential).


Only one of those has to do with the Engine it's self. And like everything else in a game engine, it's something that can be CHANGED.

The NPC's in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt are absolutely not cardboard cutouts. Just because you can't talk to every single NPC's doesn't meant their lifeless.

Do you talk to every single person you see on the sidewalk when you go outside in the city in real life? Or at the store? I know I don't and I see people doing different stuff talking on their cellphones, sitting on benches, walking their dog(s), reading the newspaper, etc.

More than you may think. It's a very rare day that I DON'T speak to someone entirely new, or engage with seemingly random people.


but you are missing the point, and trying to force your opinion and interpretation of an inherently subjective issue. The Witcher 3s cities feel empty, lifeless and dull to me. Even with the animations, even with the volume, it FEELS like walking through a training simulation full of 'don't shoot civilians' cutouts. And the reason behind that is that I can't interact with any of them, they don't have any unique behaviours, and they aren't consistent enough to become familiar due to the lack of persistence. I see the same people at the bust stop at the same time 5 days a week. Even if I don't engage with them, that consistency creates as sense of familiarity and life. Those people have jobs, routines, a persistent presence... They have a LIFE, and you can in a small way be a part of thst just by crossing paths.


Wild Hunt doesn't allow that. With the exception of a few merchants, or story-related characters, there is no consistency in its characters or their actions. You leave the washing basis outside the city, and the women there change. You don't see a housewife making her daily trip to the well. You don't see the same workers head down to the docks, day after day. There's activity, but there's no life to that activity. It's just personality-devoid drones doing activities, for no reason than to fill space. The game can't even track what pesants in White Orchard are having what conversations. I've hear 4 different pesants correct 4 others on their new name.


The lack of persistence, the lack of interactivity, the lack of routine or personality or individuality just strips all the life from the scenery for me. And again, before playing Wild Hunt, I WANTED that sort of volume. But actually experiencing it just struck me as hollow.


And it's even more problematic in a game like TES, because you aren't a set character, experiencing a set story. If it was dry and lifeless while playing as Geralt, whose personality and associations were already established, I can only dread how shallow and formulaic it would be when you're playing your own self-made character, trying to create relationships and associations.


It's a subjective thing. In the end, Wild Hunts world feels lifeless and soulless. In trying to create tue congestion and sounds of a city, the sacrificed the lives of the people who would live there. If you feel different, thats fine, but I PERSONALLY don't want Bethesda to stray any further towards that model than Fallout already has. I also don't get Modern Art, that doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.

Bethesda isn't the type to go after those doll like Korean MMO aesthetics although I admit I'm actually impressed by Black Desert's character creation.

Lol I remember Oblivion's whacky character creation system where you could have blue or purple hair.

I doubt you talk to EVERY SINGLE person you see on the sidewalk or in the store when you go outside.

The NPC's in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt are absolutely not lifeless other than Geralt of Rivia not being able to talk to every single one of them.

Point I'm trying to say is not for Bethesda Game Studios to sacrifice and remove being able to talk to every single NPC's. Just give the more animations and more schedules of stuff to do, it can be done, it's not impossible.

It's not problematic in video games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. PC gamers who are modders have made mods making all if not most of the NPC's in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim have a lot more dialogue options, more different types of voices, more animations, and more schedules.

Thankfully! That Korean MMO aesthetic makes me want to vomit, and creeps me out(It's really why I don't play MMOs from over there). Black Desert's character creation was pretty bland to, you really don't get a lot of freedom you mostly just move things up or down.

As for Wild Hunt's NPCs, they remind me of the GTA NPCs, hollow, uninteresting and just there to be there.

You know what game has a weirdly robust character creation system that doesn't play into the dolled-up super model look, but still allows you to play the range between scarred or deformed and picturesque?


EVE Online. For a game that almost never shows your avatar, the amount of detail and control in their creation system is astounding. Black Desert uses something similar, but very much leans on the general super--model aesthetic more.


One thing they really need to get a handle on is basic body morphology. Height and weight are 2 things that Bethesda has always seemed to gloss over entirely, either making every member of a race the same height, or just make everyone the same. They seem to have learned that not everyone is a ripped, 6 foot tall super human with Fallout, but even the way the body carries weight needs to be reexamined.




I'm not saying I disagree with the basic premise, just that Wild Hunt isn't a good example of what to strive for. NPCs don't have routines or lives, because they aren't persistent elements. They're filler that gets refreshed to keep things LOOKING populated, but don't actually follow even simulated lives.


It's similar to the issue I have with Oblivions radiant AI. It feels very fake, though in that case it's an issue with the randomly generated conversations and the dialogue delivery. It all feels very simulation like, as if they're trying to act alive, but just going through the process without the motivation or identity that drives those processes. It's no better an example of the end goal that Oblivion or Skyrim are.

I think that right there is the key. Lach is right when he says the city will be hollow when there is no consistency. Walking through Whiterun I feel my character has developed relationships with the people I see. I recognize Danica who I helped get an Eldergreen sapling for. I recognize Ysolda who I brought a mammoth tusk to because I wanted to help her become a merchant, and I think she is kind of cute. There's also Belthor who my character can't stand but he's the only guy in town who I can sale all my crap to and I've made a good profit off of him.

You can't do that in a Rockstar game or the Witcher unless the characters are specifically designed by the developers for the purpose of your character building a relationship with them because there is no consistency. You don't see John down by the docks everyday because you're not sure if his name is John or Al or even Cindy. Heck, it might not even be the same NPC there every day.

So I am a supporter of the way Bethesda does it, we just need more of it. The key to make them feel more alive is like Ballower's mentioned, NPCs need more dialogue options and they need more places to go and things to interact with aside from the PC. The less the world revolves around the player character the better. A believable, immersive world is one that runs on it's own without the player character pulling all the strings.

I like traveling the roads and entering a village and seeing a old woman bent with her hand on her hips because she has back pain, I like seeing the children play with stick as swords or play in puddles, I like seeing the farmer NPC's pick apples from the apple trees or rake the soil with a rake, etc. It feel like a living breathing world to me.

I also like seeing wolves hunting down to kill deer for food, hunters hunting down to kill rabbits for food, bandits randomly attacking a village, and some dragons attacking a town or a village.

Ok you guys are completely missing my point.

I like the way Bethesda Game Studios makes their NPC's in the video games taht they develop. I'm not asking for them to remove or sacrifice them.

I'm just saying their NPC's need more animations and schedules.

Nevermind I think I am confusing your comment. I see you do like my ideas as well as Lachdonin's.

I think it does too but the NPCs need to be consistent. Every time I enter into a village I should recognize the same, little blond boy running around playing knights and bandits with his buddies and the grumpy farmer with a mustache pulling apples from the tree. If the NPCs stay consistent in their activities and lives then stories and inferences can be made about them. We can develop relationships with them from afar because we know who they are. I don't think everyone needs to have a deep story with multiple dialogue options and choices. I don't ever have to talk to them but if I can recognize them and they aren't just a blank slate performing animation A or B then it'll work.

Yes absolutely I agree 100% with this.

Seeing like ten different farmers picking apples from the apple trees on the same apple tree farm does make the NPC's feel like you can't get a relationship with them at all. Seeing the same ones and maybe even the apple tree farm owner as well is the best way.

I hope Bethesda Game Studios seriously improves the dialogue for the NPC's and their looks to each be different, but to each be part of where they live in The Elder Scrolls VI.

I'd like to go to a cabbage farm and see the cabbage farm owner and talk to her or him, whenever I want to. I don't want to see like ten different cabbage farmers, that are always different people every day when I go to that cabbage farm.

I personally want them to remove the healthbars on NPCS and let the indicators of the NPCS current conditions be based entirely on visual cues. For example profuse sweating, panting and stumbling about when the character is out of Stamina or Magicka and coughing blood or clenching oneself to indicate that one is close to death. It just makes it feel a lot more immersive in my opinion.

While I think the player should also suffer from the same visual effects, I do think some kind of health indicator is still necessary for us and maybe companions.

Yea, Eve Online's character creation was crazy. I do recall that TESO does have a height slider and I'm hoping Bethesda implements that as well.

I totally second this! More options in character creation is always welcomed and if Bethesda continues to use identical character creation for their NPCs this would do the game a ton of help. It's not very believable to walk around town and every male is ripped out of their minds and every woman has a "perfect" slender frame. I want some variety. Short, tall, skinny, fat, give me it all! Along with that some extra walking animations and general idle animations would be nice. Just work around 3-4 and that would be sufficient.

Not just one. ESO has an entire page full of body sliders. The body customization in that game is an absolute delight. If the next TES has even one-tenth of the body customization options ESO offers it will be a massive improvement.

If I remember correctly, didn't ZeniMax Online Studios release a YouTube video about The Elder Scrolls Onlines Player Character (PC) creation system where you can literately change everything including the blood cells and DNA in the Player Character?

That was a parody of it!

What do you mean? So you can't actually do that with the Player Character (PC) creation in The Elder Scrolls Online?

I agree that superior npc schedules should be added. I think Oblivion was on the right track here, but I think that the conversations need to be broadened and improved so that they are not nonsensical. Having some scripted convos as per Skyrim would also be nice and give variety. I don't think thet should repeat, or at least not frequently, however.


This being said, I only think these things should improve as long as there are no hits taken towards NPC interactability or dialogue robustness.


For cities, I think 75 - 100 NPCs is decent for size, at least for now. Capital city should be Vivec-esque, imo. Small settlements could be about like typical settlements in Skyrim, with larger ones maybe being the size of Skaal village or a bit bigger.


Weight/height adjusters are definitely needed.