This thread is for ideas and suggestions for future Elder Scrolls games, and to keep all the discussion in one series of threads.

We have a long way to go before we get another ES game. In the meantime, similar topics will be closed and referred to this one.

Note there is a separate thread specifically for http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1601186-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation-31/ suggestions for future games. Please keep discussion of Skyrim in the correct forums.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1602330-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-80/

Hey new to these forums so a first post from me haha I would like ESVI to have multiple versions of Lycanthropy. Personally I think there should be a baseline of at 4 or 5. Each with their own pros and cons and abilities. They should be:


Werewolf.

Werebear.

Wereboar.

Werevulture.


These are all in the ES lore and I believe it would be great to have more variety when choosing you lycanthrope. I also believe that the Khajiit and Argonjan have these choices plus a more racial specific one.


Khajiit: Werelion.

Argonian: Werecroc.

I'd like a little more variety in the bestiary than what we saw in the previous games. Obviously it doesn't have to be too crazy and some of the creatures would depend on the province that is the setting for the next game.

For example, I'd like more types of daedra that were not in Skyrim to come back, such as Xivilai and Clannfear. I would also love to see some creatures that were in the really early games to make a comeback as well, like lamias (haven't played ESO yet but I have heard they are in there), lizard men (I am curious as to what exactly happened to them), or medusas. Also some of the aforementioned types of lycanthropes that have not made an appearance in a game would be neat to see.

i like what lachdonin wrote about the spell system http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1602330-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-80/page-7. especially about the bolt and ray casting types, although perhaps we should call bolt as "arc" (projectile spells affected by gravity) to avoid getting confused with shock spells.

though i'm still not sure about the details of how the spell matrix works exactly.

but i like the idea of controlling the spell "parameters" like magnitude, duration, aoe, mana cost, etc.. by giving it novice, adept, expert, etc.. variations. since a master fire mage may not necessarily want to keep blasting master level spells all the time, so being able to craft lower versions of spells that costs less mana would be a good option.

basically, the player's highest level perk will give them 100% of their current relevant stats so if their highest fire perk is adept, and the magnitude they chose for a fire spell is novice. (novice being one step lower than adept) then the magnitude of that spell will be around 50% of your current destruction skill. but if the player's highest fire perk is master, and they chose novice magnitude for a spell, then that spell's magnitude would only be around 25% of your current destruction skill.

the key point here is your highest perk in the relevant subset of a school of magicka will always give you 100% of your stats for that school of magic. so if you use that perk level as a spell parameter. (ie : master magnitude, master aoe, master duration, etc..) this will give you 100% effectiveness of your current stats compared to choosing lower perk level as a spell parameter (ie : novice magnitude, novice aoe, novice duration, etc..) this will only give you around 25% effectiveness of your current stats but also with only 25% casting cost of a master parameter.

the percentage drop depends on the number of "steps" between your highest perk and the chosen perk for the parameter. so let's assume that there are 4 tiers (just an example) novice, adept, expert, master. let's also assume that the player has the master perk.

if that player crafted a spell with novice parameters, then they would only be getting 25% effectiveness of their destruction skill level. if they used adept parameter then they would get 50%, expert would get 75%, and master parameter would get 100%.

this allows the players to control parameters of a spell while at the same time letting it scale with the player's relevant school of magicka level.

oh hey, there.

apparently we're supposed to give away fish sticks or something to new members. still not sure why (i'm also new). anyways, here's a fishy stick.

http://www.sfreporter.com/santafe/imgs/media.images/5685/Fish-Sticks-by-Jacob-Pfeiffer.widea.jpg

am i doin it right?

anyways, aww yiis. werelions and werecrocs.

I never understood the fish stick thing, what even is a fish stick?

In terms of bestiary, i'm personally not too concerned about multiple were (Werelions, Werecrocs etc) types. But an expanded bestiary in general would be cool. Especially with a mix of normal wildlife and fantastical wildlife, both hostile and non hostile.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General:Fishy_Stick

Wait, i get it now.

Fish sticks are Fish fingers, i suppose i should have realised seeing as Americans have different names for many things.

Yeah, the Nomenclature needs a bit of work, but i'm glad you like the concept. I pictured the ability to have almost mortar like spells, being able to conduct what basically amounts to magical carpet bombing, and shenanigans like that. Partially in response to CaptainFez from the last thread as well, i think the actual visual appearance of the spell would be best suited to be based on it's Magical Effects. So, a Shock Spell and a Fire Spell would look different, even if they had all the same variables. Which seems weird, at first thought, but I envision something like Lightning Bolt being more of a Ray than a Bolt...

It's something somewhat separate from actual Spell Crafting. Just like Sharpening, Fitting and Tempering are separate from actual crafting, Augmentation is separate from Spell Crafting. You go in, tweak the variables on some spells to make them more efficient, or hit harder, or have a bigger radius etc, rather than making an entirely new spell. But you get a Stress % that limits how much you can tweak it, with each modifier having a cost. The more potent the Augmentation, the more stress it causes, and if it exceeds 100%, the spell just doesn't work any more (For the sake of simplicity, i'd just say it wouldn't let you hit Confirm, preventing you from actually pushing it beyond 100% Stress). Basic Spells start at 0%, and thus can be played with on the fly to a greater extent than spells you've made yourself.

This also ties in a bit to what Baronaatista was saying about being able to manipulate spells on the fly. It's not true Spell Crafting, which would require a station, but it's also not leaving you without a way to react to changing circumstances. I still think the actual creation of new Spells should be limited to some sort of workstation, but it leaves room for some flexibility. Coincidentally, i think a similar approach should be taken with Enchanting, Durability and Alchemy, basically dividing them into the Deep Crafting and a more On-The-Spot model to increase the versatility.

Agreed. We have a rather convenient grading system already in place, why not use it instead of resorting to sliders?

One thing the system i've been playing with, and the variables therein, doesn't handle well though, is the idea of Touch Spells. Which, frankly, i don't think is a problem, as the idea of a Touch Spell has always been silly. Frankly I'd just as quickly leave the idea dead and buried as try to figure out how to make it work. Even D&D is moving away from them for anything but Healing.

hmm.. as for being able to manipulate the effects of the spell during battle, i like the way this mod did it. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57235/?

this basically allows the player to "charge" a low-tier spell into something stronger by charging the spell longer, leaving you vulnerable to staggers, so that players don't have to fiddle with menus too much during battle.

^this is a bit different from a real spell customization during battle though.

but in mods like requiem where changing your equipped armors are forbidden during battle, "crafting" a spell during battle seems a bit too OP.

that would be like tempering/crafting your weapon or armor during battle, and i was thinking that spellcrafting would be similar to how crafting weapons and armors could work.

ie :

-you need to have a crafting station

-you need to have the right materials : like soulgems, fire/frost/void salts, runes, books, scrolls or whatever other components.

-it would have it's own spell crafting skill tree

-etc..

otherwise, i think it's gonna be too OP since it's still technically a "crafting" skill.

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edit :

btw, if you look at the link i posted about spell charging and spell chaining. i think these are two must-have mods for combat mages.

spell chaining allows you to combine the different effects of different spells, while "spell absorption", allows you to charge a spell, absorb it into yourself and this effect will be added to your weapon attacks.

^imagine charging a lightning spell, absorbing the charge and then bring out your daedric nodachi and then just smashing foes with additional lightning damage.you can easily swap the elements during battle, so you can charge and absorb fire and ice spells into your weapon as well.

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edit :

another must-have mod for me is the bound armor spells.http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/10197/?

there's another bound armor mod floating around but i dunno what happened to it,

Or they could have it like in Morrrowind and Oblivion where really good spells were extremely expensive, that way we can have something to spend out money on. I hate being in late-game and having so much money but nothing to spend it on.

iirc, back in morrowind, you can just buy a basic spell and then go to a spellcrafter NPC and customize your spells. so i'm not sure if people actually bought vanilla high-level spells since it's so much easier to craft custom spells.

as for stuff to use my septims on, i'd probably spend it all on skooma.

yea, an entire requiem playthrough while high on skooma, or you can use mead/ale as a chaser if you don't like the visual effect of skooma. haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUmSYOHyhkg

This was my last post on the spell crafting issue on the last page of the last thread. Not sure if people saw it, but I ask a couple questions I'm interested in the responses to;

To summarize;

- I don't think you should be able to access any kind of spell crafting while in combat. I somewhat enjoy the idea that it would require a Witcher 3-like meditation 'stance', though I'm fine with it just being through the magic/spell menu. Not in combat though.

- Spells, just as weapon damage, should scale with skill at least somewhat, and it shouldn't be necessary to constantly tweak damage as skill level increases - only if the intent is to sacrifice other parameters for greater initial damage.

- I don't see how what's been suggested is truly significantly different (in terms of actual spell-crafting) than what I proposed. One way or another, there are effects and parameters. The effect sets the basic properties of the spell (fire damage, teleportation, magical shield) and the parameters do the rest. One way or another, you are tweaking those parameters. If you guys seriously have something against sliders, that's fine. Adjusting a spell down to 'novice' damage rather than moving a slider though... that is a visual / incremental difference and nothing more. I too would prefer to see some tweakable element that could provide some unique functions - my thought is casting method is a way to achieve that - different casting methods have intrinsic properties of their own, pushing and pulling effects/parameters in different ways.

- I do enjoy the concept of the 'spell-matrix' where adding/adjusting parameters has costs to the stability of the spell, which would be sufficient to make standardized 'spells' useful, while still allowing variation.

This is somewhat only a variation of the magicka cost element in previous systems though, which gets to my overall point in this conversation; if the proposal is intended to be something that is legitimately different than what has come before, how do you propose to do that? Nothing I've heard/seen so far convinces me that it is anything more than a 'skin' on the old system. That's also not a knock; I don't really see too much trouble with the old system (or whats been proposed - though some of it seems a bit convoluted) - practically, it allowed for creating customized, tactical spells / variations of spells for specific purposes. Sure, the interface was not the most attractive, but it did what was intended and was relatively easy to understand. My only problems with it were those I've listed; it required the use of a spell altar which in Oblivion I believe could only be found in the Imperial City Mages Guild? And it created ridiculous cluttered spell-lists if you actually used it much. I also don't really see an alternative; I ask the question again, if spell crafting is not tweaking the parameters of an effect, what is it?

- If it requires an altar to create a spell, what exactly is happening at that altar? With alchemy you need a mortal and pestle, you need alembics and calcinators, you need fire and tubes to connect them, etc. Smithing of course you need a super-hot forge, ingots, leather, wood, hammers, tongs, benches, molds, etc. Enchanting is less clear, but it least makes some kind of intuitive sense - you would need a place to put the weapon/armor, likely some engraving/written enchantments, and perhaps some kind of magical device to extract and imbue soul energy. Spells don't have to do with anything concrete though. So why the altar? Do you need to write something down - equations, incantations? If it's about writing, why can't you just carry a book around? Or is the altar enchanted with a spell crafting... spell. ? It just seems unnecessary to me, and it just seems to me - if I could concentrate, focus my will and throw a fireball; the same process that allowed me to do that, the same power/concentration that I'm tapping into, should allow me to (provided I have the skill) make that fireball explode or burn longer, etc. Or if it's the magical equivalent of equations; physicists can solve problems with a notepad and a calculator in a field just as well as they can at a desk.

- I also like the idea of charging spells... the way the system was designed in Skyrim, it really felt like it was supposed to be there, and I can't understand why not.

Been busy with Overwatch so haven't been here as of late...

Anyways on the point of spell crafting I personally feel it really isn't needed. I feel if they take the time to create a large spell pool of unique and interesting spells then custom ones aren't needed. I feel like it would also allow for better balance and synergy between spells if they were all designed to be used together. Something I would like to see however is a way to augment spells in a way similar to ESO or Dragon Age: Inquisition where you can augment/modify spells to slight change/boost how they work.

It seems that a lot of the spell crafting conversation has focused on making spells in one school of magic. Should you be able to combine spells from different schools? Some combinations would be purely to save button pressing (like conjure sword and ironskin). Others could lead to incredibly powerful spells that could throw the balance off (think adding invisibility to any offensive spell). I would love hear everyone's thoughts of on this.

Combining effects was one of the parameters for spell manipulation I (and others) was discussing earlier, and I think fits nicely as a heavy stressor on the 'spell-matrix' concept Lachdonin put forward.

Does anyone believe they should add another playable race? I for one would love the Imga to become a playable race. Or introduce a whole new one I think that a bipedal Rhinoceros race would be awesome like Rocksteady from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Or much harder to achieve a bipedal Elephant where perhaps helmets would morph similar to Argonians and they would continue down the trunk.

That was possible in past games.But I don't see how invisibilty and a offensive spell would be op at least not with the system that breaks it as soon as you do something or witth a good AI.And in Skyrim it wasn't even helping if you used it in combat since most of the time they would still hit you.But on of my favourite spells in Oblvion wasa a powerful destruction spell that had 100% magic resist on self for a few seconds that way I could use it against Lichs without having to worry about spell reflection.

I was thinking you become invisible before combat. Casting an offensive spell would break the invisibility but if the spell were fireball+invisibility for some duration you would only become visible for a fraction of a second if at all depending on the mechanics. Good AI would help as being seen for even a small amount of time could make the player vulnerable (like in Skyrim how you can't just cast invisibility in the middle of combat and lose the enemies as you pointed out).

If different schools could be combined, how many spells should the player be able to mix? Even if you can only combine two different spells, that allows for essentially 4 different spells to be cast at once. Now obviously magika is a constraint that could prevent this system from being overpowered. That being said, the system would need to be well thought out to prevent exploitation.

If you regulate it through Magicka cost, and limit the players ability to control that cost by limiting their influence over things like Radius, Magnitude and Duration, you can alleviate a good deal of the exploitation problems we saw previously. Bear in mind, of course, that i'm also talking about this from a perspective in which Magicka is the most static of the Resources available, so using magic is always about rationing your finite pool.

It's like digital opium, isn't it. Its almost painful to put down. For a completely off-beat style of game for Blizzard, and an entirely new IP, they've totally nailed it. It's a good thing i beat Doom before the launch, because i just don't have enough hours in the day to play Overwatch and another game...

I don't think it's necessary either, but it does allow for players to experiment and innovate. Very few games really have any sort of Spell Crafting in place, and they get along just fine... But having one allows for players to do things in ways the developers may not anticipate, which can vastly increase the versatility of a Magic system... and break the game... But hey, gotta break a few eggs...

Well, some tempering and maintenance should be able to be one on the fly. Things like sharpening a blade should be as on-the-fly as recharging an Enchantment. And slight manipulation of a Spell should be in a similar category. Find yourself getting low on Magicka, and unsure how much longer you have in a dungeon? Slap on some Efficiency Augments to make every last point count. Know you're about to go up against a tough enemy, and have Magicka to spare? Amp up the power a bit before the final confrontation.

It's not something you can reasonable do in the middle of a fight, but in the few moments of quiet between battle? Why not.

Full on, proper Spell Crafting, however, should require a workstation of some sort.

Doesn't that mitigate some of the allure of such a system of spell creation if in fact a single category might necessarily involve three times the work (in the case of elemental spells) just for a single spell type? I'm not saying I don't like the idea, and honestly I think if they started the ground work early, implementation wouldn't be a problem for them. I just don't see where you can make the system modular unless we resign ourselves to palette swaps.

Also, I feel a little foolish for spending all that time talking about my ideas for the spell system after you explained what you meant by matrix stress (to my understanding we were both talking about the same thing). I'd really be in favor of the continued absence of spell creation if we were given the ability to tweak spell parameters along the lines of a matrix system and with increasing skill level. It might also be an opportunity for them to deliver on the concept of combining spells like they talked about in early previews for Skyrim. This could also be tied into the matrix system. Say, the ability to mix a rally and heal spell or combining a lightning and fire spell into a vortex of pure energy. I'm sure you could sit down and think of some interesting combinations.

Anyway, this is a bit of a forced shift in topics, but the more I've thought about it, I'm really curious what people think about the settlement building system in Fallout 4 and its implementation in ES VI. As I talked about in some other thread, I'm not so sure I want them to bring it into ES VI the way it currently is. I would much prefer a more limited system, where we have different options of improving our own personal settlement(s) and can build our own home there but it is pre-fabricated. Item placement could still be done, but the layout is preset. I feel like this option would allow them to make settlements more interactive. Anyone who has played FO4 knows settlement building is fun, but NPC AI doesn't really work so well with how freeform it is, and settlements have this weird vibe to them because of it. At least in places like Diamond City, it seems like everyone is going about business as usual, but settlements have weird outcomes most of the time I'm in them (doing useless work, getting stuck on roofs, standing oddly in a large group at night, etc.). It also bothers me that settlers have no personality and are literally just named "Settler". The idea of being able to build my own settlement is great, but the execution ended up making me luke warm to the idea as a whole.

I'm curious how others feel though or what they think should be done to improve upon it. Do you even want it in ES?

maybe spells can be changed on the go via gestures while casting a spell. for instance you can gesture to either place a rune/wall, throw a ball, create an aura, cast on self, etc. that way, you can have spell effects without the need to superficial spells only different in delivery.
it may be a be tricky as it changes spellcasting from just pushing a button to more dynamic, but it does open up some more creative applications of spells on the fly.

Well, if you look at the number of excellent mods that have come out for settlements, including mods allowing settler naming, and their use as resource-producers, as well as expanded object placement (such as through walls) and a larger array of objects, there's quite a bit of potential for improvement in that area of the game. I myself find it an extremely engaging part of the game, especially given that Fallout 4features a ruined, pre-civilised world in which you are one of the last survivors from the old-US, and hence are uniquely poised to help rebuild.


As for ES, the settlement builder would work in a number of circumstances. For instance, in the lore, we hear of attempts by the Imperials to civilise the swamps of Black Marsh - perhaps players could be contracted by various competing factions in a Black Marsh setting (East Empire Company, Thalmor, Great House Council and the Argonian Tribes) to become governor of a new settlement aimed at spreading their culture. Roles for settlers could be expanded to include religious orders and Knights, as well as shopkeepers selling various goods produced by each faction, and varying styles of government. From a marketing standpoint, settlement features are likely indispensable, and will be regular features in future BGS titles.

Why? Is this a practical/realism issue or a balance issue? Can you describe what would take place at a Spell Altar/Workstation that wouldn't be possible elsewhere?

This is where I draw on outside inspiration, because the actual understanding of the mechanics behind Magic in TES are so vague or poorly discribed. If we operate on the 'Circuit' theory of how magic works, then creating spells becomes more like engineering than anything. If you have a structure whose design you are extremely familiar with, you can just slap it together out of experience. You know the angles, where the load stress is, and what the measurements are. But if you're desiging an entirely new structure, you need to do considerably more drafting work before you even get to try putting up posts. If we interpret Magic in TES as having an almost scientific basis, the same should generally apply.


Which brings me to my inspiration. There have been some pretty cool moments in Warcraft novels about the workings of Magic, but nothing beats Teclis uncovering how the Vortex of Ulthuan works, in the Tyrion and Teclis novels for Warhammer Fantasy. Pervading magical theory assumed it was an Enchantment constructed into the fabric of the continent, but Teclis determines that no Enchantment Matrix can withstand that sort of power without collapsing. Instead, he discovers that it's structure is that of a Ritual, and an ongoing one at that. He does this through seemingly innocuous methods. Maps, diagrams and experimentation. He basically charts out the flow of magical energy and then applies different structures to the flow to determine the spells stability, and it's construction. He treats the spell very much like an electrician trying to go over the wiring in your house. He later uses this knowledge to unravel the Vortex and destroy the world, but that's another issue entirely...


The point is, most of Teclis' work in the story isn't making [censored] up on the fly. It's him, sitting in a study, drawing on paper and doing maths. Because in Warhammer, Magic is Science. And TES behaves in a very similar way, even if the underlying mechanics have never been made clear.




I think, one way or another, we have to expect some range of palate swaps. The basic spells can remain distinct enough, but when you start getting into the ability to make your own spells, the least convoluted solution is to just allow all variables for all spells. So, sure, you could make an Invisibility Mortar with a 10 meter blast radius (basically a Fireball but with the Invisibility effect instead of Fire Damage) but smetikes absurdity is the price if versatility.




Yeah, frankly, I think I could settle for neither and just have spells scale with skill, and have a robust spell list to draw from naturally... But Spell Crafting is something LOTS of people complain though, so I'm trying to find a satisfactory, versatile solution that doesn't just resort to the abomination in past games.