This thread is for ideas and suggestions for future Elder Scrolls games, and to keep all the discussion in one series of threads.

We have a long way to go before we get another ES game. In the meantime, similar topics will be closed and referred to this one.

Note there is a separate thread specifically for http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1602936-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation-32/ suggestions for future games. Please keep discussion of Skyrim in the correct forums.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1603226-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-82/

Thanks Pluto-subscribing to continue listening to discussions

In response to C4B4L from the last thread...

Those changes are pretty minor and were made for the sake of balancing. On that note, Mysticism was completely nixed in Skyrim. I don't have a problem with shifting around what magic goes where, but it should be done properly. Removing weapon summoning from Conjuration and placing it under Destruction would, in my opinion, create some pretty bad balancing issues. Destruction is already one of the more popular schools of magic, and Conjuration is comparatively niche.

When it comes to the magic schools being a concept, its worth noting that they are the only concept that has characterized TES magic gameplay; we have every reason to believe Bethesda will continue to use this system. If they decide to create a new system of magic, then that's fine. It may even be awesome. But since we are talking about the system currently in place, and describing the magic using terminology from that system, I think its important that we keep the definitions straight. Or as straight as we can at least.

What are peoples' thoughts on a complete revamping of magic?

P.S. Thanks Pluto

Unnecessary, i think, and also rather counter productive. Skyrim's magic system is the best the series has had, it just lacks the volume to make it particularly interesting. It also functions as a pretty good potential platform for a better Spell Crafting system than what came before. And it's still deeply rooted in the lore and behaviours of magic in-universe.

The system just needs fleshing out, not revamping. We don't need to mimic Dragon Age, or go super over-the-top like many Japanese games. The model, as it stands, fits into the world of Tamriel, and changing it, rather than expanding on it, is the wrong way to go.

Talking specifically about Elemental Weapons, there may definitely be some room for fitting them into the current model (it actually would work well within the Battlemage concept) but it's less am issue that requires an overhaul, and more one that just requires more variables to the spells. Something which Skyrim excels at over earlier games, even if it's poorly utilised.

I got to thinking a lot more about magic spells for The Elder Scrolls VI.

Since Todd Howard said that The Elder Scrolls VI won't be released for sale many years from now and he talked about wanting the technology to catch up in MicroSoft's Project Xbox Scorpio video. I think by 2021 or 2023 when The Elder Scrolls VI gets released for sale there should be like fire burns grass and foliage to actual ashes compared to just the burnt textures that foliage changes to in Far Cry 2, Far Cry 3, and Far Cry 4.

Morphing should also be done better in The Elder Scrolls VI. I want to see food like fruits and vegetables actually decay as time passes by. Unreal Engine 4 does this very good.

I also want the land of the province wherever The Elder Scrolls VI is set in to be bigger than The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's video game world maps combined, filled with lots of content to do.

People say that bigger isn't always better, yes this is true, but I hope Bethesda Game Studios employees can take their time to fill the video game world map of The Elder Scrolls VI with content that has uses.

I also want Bethesda Game Studios to implement naval combat mechanics if the province of The Elder Scrolls VI is set in a province that's near the ocean. I would like to be able to have my ship fight against one ship or see two ships or four other ships fight each other in the distance on the ocean.

I would also like to be able to build my own ship(s) from the ground up from scratch, like cut trees to make the wooden planks for the ships hull and body, etc.

So, every province on Tamriel?

Sarcasm aside, there are problems associated with implementing naval combat in TES. First, a lack of cannon. While the Redguard may have them, no one else uses them, which dramatically changes how combat works. It would make it almost entirely boarding-focused, which while this may be appropriate, is definitely not what people are going to expect, and thus will complain about. There's also the fact that... No one's handled sailing that well, at least in a first-person dynamic. Blackwake does a tolerable job, but frankly... i'm not entirely confident about Bethesda's ability innovate something like that.

Using a ship in TES is going to require a rather different approach than the pathetic paddle boats of the Witcher, or the Barque of Assassin's Creed. It would be a welcome addition, but i just don't see it working out well. And Vehk knows people have enough to nitpick about.

I would very much welcome being able to just board ships when fighting them on the ocean and not have cannons.

Could attach Balistas on the ships edge and just fire huge arrows into the other ship(s).

Agreed, there's ways around it conceptually, but the mechanics form a bigger hurdle. Would you be able to aim the weapons while manning the helm, or would you be relying entirely on AI crew? Then there's trying to sort out the pathing behaviours for other ships (and Bethesda generally has terrible pathing) which would be particularly problematic near any sort of dock or pier. And those are just 2 problems i can think off in my tired, pain-killer dulled stupor.

Making any sort of sailing function in TES would require a significant amount of work, and would have to be a rather substantial element of the game to justify. A single province doesn't really cut it, even Summerset... and doing multiple provinces comes with it's own problems. Hammerfell would probably be the most appropriate option, but it would only really offer a significant enough element if it included Yokuda.

I mean... i love sailing. Joined the Navy i loved it so much. I would love to be able to sale around Tamriel. But there are more useful systems in more pressing need of being dealt with... It's definitely something for the future, but i don't really know if it's time.

I dont know if the elder scrolls is based on Raymond E Feist, but magic in that novel is a bit less over the top, summoning fog, levitation, manipulating animals.

In the elder scrolls you can basically conjure up a sword in the middle of someones head.

Good thing no one ever suggested that. I'm not suggesting changing the existing Summon Weapon/Armor spells in any way (though I do think there's a problem with how they grant a skill bonus for the thing you summoned, but that's a completely separate issue). What I'm suggesting is to have additional types of summonable weapons and armor, which take on specific elemental properties, and those draw on different schools of magic.


From the previous thread:

Again, never suggested otherwise. In fact, what I suggested is one way in which they can remain consistent in the lore* while also offering more diverse gameplay options**.


* Isn't it weird how all the master thieves in TES are rogues, who have detailed knowledge of locksmithing and specialize in stealth and security? If sneaking around and opening locks was as simple as waving your arms around for a spell, wouldn't that mean the master thieves should instead be mages? My suggestion of an Open Lock spell drawing on both Alteration and Lockpicking/Security skills resolves these problems, allowing Open Lock spells to exist, but also requiring specific knowledge of locksmithing that is necessary according to lore. The amount of skill you need in Alteration+Security for an Open Lock spell, that is equivalent to lockpicking solely on the Security, is certainly debatable, as I can't really guess what would balance well.

** In Morrowind and Oblivion, if you're skilled in Alteration, you can deal with locks. All you need is the spell for it. This has the unfortunate side-effect of marginalizing the Security skill because Alteration can do the same thing plus more, leaving no practical reason to be specialized in Security (and while you can certainly pick it for flavor reasons, it leaves you at a disadvantage, which again is inconsistent with lore which says you should be better at lockpicking with Security, and just makes no sense thematically). With my system, it diversifies this. You can be skilled in Alteration but be crap at locks. Or you can be good in Alteration and be good at locks. And if you're serious about being a thief, you have equal options of going the pure physical route (Security only), or magic-assisted (Alteration+Security), but in either case you still need to know how locks work to pick them, which is only logical.

Like what? Honestly i haven't seen much other opinions on the matter. Battles or at the very least least smaller scale fights but way bigger than we have seen before. Navel battles also. The obvious we know will happen or at least hope it dose. Like expanding on Skyrims magic. I agree the magic system of Skyrim works. Just needs more depth. Graphics, yes that's all well and fine. But when Todd said the team had something in mind and they don't have the tech or time to do it now. I think it's something hard to do. Skyrim's introduction of dragons at the time was very fascinating to see. I've never seen any other game do it. You can be attacked in almost any place in the open world. You can even see dragons flying way in the distance. It sold the fantasy world a lot. I think they need something new. Not just graphics and bigger and more. That's hopefully coming. But a suspect a new system is on the way for TES VI.

I'd also like to know if anyone in this forum has an idea or hope of what it can be.

The only ideas i have in mind are Battles/More NPCs on screen/navel combat/large cities

Watching dome eso gameplay on youtube last night as the host was speculating on next tes


I was somewhat impressed in spellcasting. Animations compared to dkyrim as well as movement


Is eso the same engine? Any crossover of programmers from Skyrim. Howard have any input in eso gameplay?

I get where you're coming from, Lachdonin. Hey, at least you admit you have some bias. Although, to be fair, I am biased in favor of each game haha. I did add the caveat that the tone at least fit more after the Oblivion Crisis, but yeah, a lot of the time during it the tone didn't really always match.

But I can definitely see many of the flaws in the games, and while I personally think Oblivion was the weakest of the last three main installments there are still some redeeming qualities to me. I actually started the series with Skyrim, but I have a soft spot for MS-DOS games and late 90s/early 00s games anyways since I played a bunch of them when I was a kid, so it was much easier for me to get behind the earlier games (although a couple of them I couldn't get into at first).

Anyways, this is a pipe dream, but I would love to see the next game have at least some measure of a collaboration between Eric Heberling (composer for Arena and Daggerfall) and Jeremy Soule, but still primarily be Soule. Make it happen, Bethesda.

I imagine Bethesda felt it was necessary to create a colorful, happy Cyrodiil in order to provide a stark contrast with the demonic Deadlands. They probably felt that a dark, gritty Cyrodiil would have lessened the dramatic impact of stepping through those portals.

Well... Combat, AI, Dialogue, Stats, Gear, basic interaction, quest design, crafting, basic movement... As much as i love their games, many of Bethesda's mechanics, systems and executions need a lot of work before they're anywhere near their current potential, let alone over the next decade... Something like real-time sailing is a lot to add, and i'm personally of the preference that current inclusions be refined before more are half-added.

• Someone at Bethesda please read "Magician" by Raymond E Feist.


• Distant terrain can be rendered in lower framerates, because the change only slightly over time.


• Try making the mouse cursor framerate, independant of the graphics framerate, to reduce mouse lag. Only works when the cursor is not used for looking.


• Remote Triggered Area Preloading. (like in Metroid Prime) from a distance, you can send your follower/dog to the door to listen for enemies, in the meantime the game loads the area.


• Not every plate you knock over has to be saved, it causes save game bloating. Only important quests, player owned areas, unique items, etc have to be saved. The rest can simply be reset to reduce save file size. Maybe let player choose what to save and what not.


• Make all NPC's killable, its more immersive. When an essential NPC gets killed they are instead "found barely alive, by a concerned wanderer and brought to the temple for healing, and back to health a week later"


• Using blunt weapon on non-essential npc's knocks them unconscious, and thay get the same treatment as essential npc 's


• Make all corpses with essential items turn up in the hall of the dead. Ready for looting / reanimating.


• Doing enough damage to an enemies arm makes them drop thier weapon (like in Deus Ex 1)


• Bring back levitation/high jumping.


• Option to turn V-sync off in the game menu, V-sync forced on caused alot of sluggish response in skyrim.


• House building with Custom sections in a matrix grid, for example "wall section", "floor section", "staircase section", "bridge section", "undergound tunnel section", "underwater section", "roof section"


• Also maybe upload textures to sections.


• Also maybe merging 2 sections in the same place.


• Option to make any area your house and a safe location, after it has been "completed".


• Use more and better 2D backgrounds for the skies, il make a top 10 backgrounds video on youtube soon.


• Skyrims Werewolf transformation was cool, including it having penalties. Keep that kinda stuff. Maybe make werewolf transformation activate on death, with a cool slow-mo unleash.


• When werewolf powers in cooldown custom items such as healing potions should auto-activate right before death.


• Vampires were terrible, except transforming into a cloud of bats and faster reflexes (slow motion power).


• More places with underwater sections. Maybe even an underwater town.


• Custom armor and weapons, with placement and thickness affecting what bodyparts are protected and how much, like add premade plates to block damage from to certain directions to certain body parts.


• Capturing souls can also be used as stand alone summons like pokemon mentioned earlier, each with a different personalities, some aggressive, others stay close and protect you.


• Maybe combine souls with other bodies, your faithfull dog dies? put his soul into a bear or human and he will protect you even better than that whining lydia.


• Capturing souls and consuming them may eventually grant partial transformation abilities, like night eye, smell vision, superstrength etc.


• Hint system for scouting desired items/powers. for example inn keeper tells you about howling of werewolfs somewhere.


• Seeing an enemy use a type of spell/item you like? use you werewolf/vampire powers and follow his scent, to where he came from. Can also be used for finding hidden levers / secrets.


• Lower quantity of npc's/followers but higher quality


• Maybe option to make any character a follower is possible, if done would probably be best to focus on hand signals over vocals, or else the voice actors might commit suicide.


• Maybe use potions also as parfume for repelling/manipulating animals and humans.


• Wearing rare enchanted items for a while, lets you permanently learn its spell/enchantment (like in Final Fantasy tactics advance). This also means you can slowly work towards an ability that you actually want, instead of struggling through a dungeon only to have the final reward being a "make skeevers fight for you shout".


• Most spells/(spell effects) should be rewards, only few should be buyable.


• Spells can be a combination of magic schools.


• Conjurating melee weapons/armor can be a combination of conjuration + ice magic, condensing air vapor. Maybe Alteration can make them last longer. More immersive than "creating a mountain of stuff outa nowhere". Once ice spear is created it can be thrown.


• Conjuring bows should be from wood using nature magic. Pulling a bow out of the ground. Maybe combination of conjuration + restoration.


• Wearing an outfit+full helm makes you anonymous. Any crime you commit and get away with will not affect you. (might piss of the muslims)


• Get rid of powers that end up useless near the end of the game (argonian waterbreathing? kinda useless once you get an necklace of waterbreathing)


• The attribute raising system wasn't super terrible, as long as you can raise each attribute just as much, so you dont have to "plan" your levels.


• Make sure the game doesn't become to easy at higher levels. Like skyrim's "-100% spell cost", "743923 point damage sword", or the "can't see me dancing in front of your face, sneak level".


• The way to manage Overpoweredness can be, focusing more on getting more options, more items/powers/transformation.


• More penalties to items/powers/transformations.


• More creative+realistic spells like , fog, slow moving silent calm spell, dead thrall ANY creature not just humans.


• Immersive fasttravel (like in Morrowind)


• More vertical level design, (like Skyrim's Markarth)


• Every day you speak to a person, disposition raises , with the final stage requiring a quest. When npc's are "friends" you also raise thiers, where some npc's you can ONLY befriend them through talking/helping thier friends.


• Start of the game should always be with only 1 or 2 other people, to create an emotional connection to the characters, and also play an important role in the main plot, maybe even a love interest, or a figment of your imagination, or even both. (hadvar was a slightly decent example).


• No more black soul gems, make player "work" for thier enchantments like in morrowind, its basically a player generated quest.


• Mixed bloodline, getting the appearance and racial power from your mother, but the passive bonus from you father, you can use your imagination. May piss off the gays though.


• Less fresh fruit and lit torches in ancient dungeons, use more types of glowing mushrooms and underground growing edibles. (was that really a dungeon full of monsters? or was it the mushrooms?)


• (side)quests need more 1:Less, but higher quality.


• (side)quests need more 2:Have a usefull reward that doesn't become obsolete later on (like werewolf powers from Companions questline)


• (side)quests need more 3:flesh out backstory of a character or place (ill met by moonlight)


• (side)quests need more 4:To keep you wandering what happened, more mysterious quests (like Frostflow lighthouse)


• (side)quests need more 5:raise important questions about how you look at the game world (forsworn conspiracy)


• (side)quests need more 6:have an real/emotional connection to the player or game world


• (side)quests need more 7:use magic whisper voices and hallucinations caused by enchanted helmets, specially when a complicated backstory has to be told. (like The Staff of Magnus quest)


• (side)quests need more 8:hidden stories (Rorikstead) actually tied to a quest/reward.


• (side)quests need more 9:Horror, atmosphere, fog, whispers, moving shadows, scary music, items being repositioned.


• Dont use quest markers. The old fashioned morrowind journal was fine, as long as it actually shows some good directions and hints.


• (don't read this one) In terms of plot, maybe more ambiguous story, maybe eventually realizing you were the bad guy all along, like in Morrowind. Where you might be the chosen one or simply someone who is believed to be, a Selffulfilling prophecy. If in Valenwood the main character may even be a mortally wounded soldier that lost his arm, and has been revived by the forest, never knowing if you ever actually existed in the first place or just a creation of the forest. The replacement arm the forest gives you lets you use nature magic, manipulating the forest to aid you. Only later do you realize you never had nature magic, the forest was just helping you as long as you don't go against it.

In fairness, for them to actually make naval combat would, by inference, almost certainly mean they had overcome some of their existing shortcomings. Bearing in mind right now their AI, pathing and animations can't even handle ladders - hell, they have to lock you in place during the boat ride to Far Harbor because the float point precision can't handle your character moving on another moving object. All that problem is compounded even more by the fact that you - and any other NPCs - also have your items anchored to you separately rather than being part of your mesh. And God, imagine the physics issues! You'd have to create a separate physics environment for the ship and all local objects, and even then it'd be a nightmare. I guess you could combine all the meshes on board the ship, but even then what happens when the player drops a bunch of cheese-wheels on the deck?

Star Citizen spent years tweaking the CryEngine to support multi-crew ships in order to overcome just some of these hurdles.

I refer you to my http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1603226-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-82/?p=25177288 to your post in the previous thread but I need to reiterate this: Rendering Does Not Work That Way. You can't render arbitrary parts of a scene at different framerates without causing severe visual artifacts such as ghosting, trailing or blurring.

Indeed. I think it's something that can definitely be built towards, but there are a lot of pieces to put together before you can get there. Star Citizen is actually a good example of the issues, as they've spent 5 years trying to resolve JUST these issues, not building a game that allows you to do things beyond them.

I don't expect to see Sailing, in any real capacity, in the next game. Maybe the one after that, but who knows... With that in mind, i think there are more pressing concerns, which would serve as steps to build towards that idea.

Yes it's very hard work. But by what Todd said, they don't have the time or tech hints at something more ambitious. They are expanding their 2nd team in their new studio. Also by the time they release their 2 new projects i think both teams will be much larger. The thing about naval combat is it requires a total different engine. So trying to understand how it will work with the latest example of the boat in Far Harbor is hard to grasp i know. That's why i think a new engine is in the works. Maybe even one that gets rid of Gamebryo.

Lets be clear. They do not use Gamebryo anymore. They use some bits of Gamebryo's code, but Creation IS a different engine. Even the Unreal 4 Engine contains legacy code from the original Unreal engine. It is exceptionally rare for a company to build an engine from scratch, and using older code, either from previous versions or other, licensed systems, is very common.

But Gamebryo is not good. Unreal 4 may use parts of the older one but at least it doesn't come with as much problems as Gamebryo. Maybe some problems that happen in Bethesda games are because of their engine.

Very few, i suspect, because then you'd see it in other games based on Gamebryo. Most of the problems encountered in Bethesda games (beyond the limitations of older 32bit software) aren't present in other games made with Gamebryo, indicating that Bethesda is the problem, not the engine.

That's not to say that there are not improvements to be made, engine wise. But a new engine isn't going to instantly solve all the problems. In fact, it's unlikely to fix many of them, as the limiting factor seems to be more the skills and aptitude of the team, rather than the tools their working with.

One reason i love the TES series is because of it's huge quantity of things to do in it. Side quests included. I don't even call them that, i call them quests and there is of course the main quest. But how about this. The quantity of quests in Skyrim were good imo they should leave that quantity and go for better quality in that quantity. I think they can do it because other RPG companies already proved that they can up the quests from their previous game wile still having quality.

Interesting idea that could work well, but the thing is with many of our suggestions with magic is that it requires more than just adding new spell effects (or bringing back those from previous games) or tweaking the system. Other mechanics not inherently magic-related would need to be fixed up as well. With how pathetically easy Skyrim lockpicking is, unlock spells really aren't necessary. Lockpicking is actually one thing I think Oblivion does better than both Morrowind and Skyrim (although lockpicks are a bit hard to come by, but they are pretty easy to get in Morrowind and Skyrim). If you had a more challenging lockpicking system, there would be more utility to unlock/lock spells.

Another example: I'd also like to see disintegrate armor/weapon spells come back as well, but that would mean bringing back degradation. I certainly want degradation, but the system needs to be much better than what Morrowind or especially Oblivion had. An entirely new spell that I'd love to see would be some form of a repair spell. If we take your suggestion of incorporating schools of magic with other skills, this would be an Alteration + Smithing spell.

The idea of elemental weapons would be awesome, though. I'm a little wary of any possible balancing issues that might present, but if done well it would be dope.