[Lindsay Dunn]

the beauty of tes has never been for me at least sharing it with other people i prefer to sit by my self and immerse my self in that world, i dont want anything that would dliute that for me whether its less dev time spent on the game world because MP is being made or if its an MMO parties of people running around if i want an MMO ill go play Guildwars when i want a world to my self i play TES, both have vastly beautiful worlds but they are ment for different things

[joseluis perez]

the beauty of tes has never been for me at least sharing it with other people i prefer to sit by my self and immerse my self in that world, i dont want anything that would dliute that for me whether its less dev time spent on the game world because MP is being made or if its an MMO parties of people running around if i want an MMO ill go play Guildwars when i want a world to my self i play TES, both have vastly beautiful worlds but they are ment for different things

TES games have always has LONG development periods which gives them time to add a crap load of content to their games, if it's that big of a time sink, they'll just delay the game.

Also, you do know what mods right, and that could still play by yourself?

[Umpyre Records]

delays are not something i want first off, and second have you ever played an MMO? they are designed to be played by groups of people and require multiple people to complete 90% of the game, sure you can solo some quests but the fact is even a level 100 would get destroyed on many mid to late game quests by him/herself thats just how a good mmo is made, teamwork is necessary and it can be awesome when it all comes together. And dont expect the open world environments that we all know and love that would kill net work connections expect the smaller segments seen in MMO's like guildwars thats great and all but its not what TES is about. Mods would not be supported nearly as much and in fact you would need to play on entirely modded servers in order to use them at all, the fact is mods create balancing issues and in an MMO they would be cheating straight up cheating, even that house mod you really love wont work because it ether would go in an existing area... not possible or it would be in its own area.... game breaking, with an MMO or multi player game everyone must be playing with the same deck of cards thats how it works, sure Beth could release DLC but mods would not be supported.

[Farrah Lee]

delays are not something i want first off,

Because playing a buggy game is fun? Delays are nessicary, and you wouldn't even know the difference between a delay and a set release since we don't have a release date yet.

and second have you ever played an MMO?

Many, but I'm talking about Co-op, so I don't know why you're bringing that up.

the fact is mods create balancing issues and in an MMO they would be cheating straight up cheating,

1. Do you honestly think anyone wants mods in an MMO?

2. Of course balance is going to change from the host's server to another guy's server because of different mods as I already stated, this's the point of mods, to change the game.

And dont expect the open world environments that we all know and love that would kill net work connections expect the smaller segments seen in MMO's like guildwars thats great and all but its not what TES is about.

Oblivion already only loads a certain amount section of the open areas at a time, I don't see this being an issue as long as players are restricted to being within X yards of the host.

Mods would not be supported nearly as much

Why, our modding community is incredibly active.

and in fact you would need to play on entirely modded servers in order to use them at all

That's the point, how is this bad again?

even that house mod you really love wont work because it ether would go in an existing area... not possible or it would be in its own area.... game breaking, with an MMO or multi player game everyone must be playing with the same deck of cards thats how it works, sure Beth could release DLC but mods would not be supported.

Already addressed this.

[Kelly Tomlinson]

you are assuming that a game like oblivion would be supported on a peer to peer networking model, that is the only way you would be able to use the co-op function as you describe it. I'm telling you that a server based model would be the only way to store that amount of information and provide a consistent game experience, the argument about mods on a peer to peer system is still relevant, in peer to peer net working models ether both people have to the the exact same mods in the same load order or they would both need to be playing official versions, the later is what will be required to play online together. As was said both players must have the same deck of cards from both a technical and balance stand point, not everyone has fiber connections and to be playable by most (which is whats needed to get a feature shipped in the first place) a server based networking model will be necessary. the fact is that while its great to think about in reality you would end up cutting away a lot of the things that make the game fun. So sure buy your own server and run it out of pocket to get your perfect moded multi player experience but for the VAST majority this will not be possible

Oblivion is split into cells as most games are but each of those cells takes up a large amount of memory, now on PC's we can handle much more than oblivion currently throws at us but the entire community is hindered by the fact that this is a multi-platform release and there for continuity is required across all fronts, you cant waste dev time and money on a feature that will only ship on one of the 3 platforms, thats bad business, BGS is trying to turn a profit that means getting good games out the door in a timely manner, more returns for them etc... delaying ship is a hard decision and a loss of money for the company .

The theory of multi player is great but Co-op and MMO style play are a waste of developer time and money and technologically unstable for a current gen games (as whatever BGS is currently working on is stated to be).

shooting down my points by assuming that your system will run on a P2P sycronis networking model shows a gross misunderstanding of the technical side of the equation

[Eve(G)]

i think the biggest problem with making an ES game co-op or MMO in any manner would be the total reworking of how many skills function.

But most important to me, the culture of the game would change for the worst. The ES forums have some of the most helpful, cheerful, and just plain nice people on them. The interesting discussions of lore on this forum, the amazing work posted on the modding forums, and the helpful playing advice on the general forums would disappear very quickly if ES became an MMO. If you don't believe me just look at the official WoW forums. Anything interesting or helpful is drowned in a sea of tears from whining kids (well i assume, and hope, they are kids) crying about how "X skill is OP" or "X class is OP." Their are ten thousand posts a day about "which build is best?" or "which class/race is best?" or "Can someone run me through X dungeon b/c its TOOOOOOO HAAARRD!!!!?!?" The game would stop being about doing what you enjoy, and become a series of chores that must be completed in order for your char to not "svck."

As someone posted on this thread earlier, I would hate to see TES series become another Final Fantasy. Every FF game was better than the one before it (in general). That all stopped once they made FFIX a MMO. FFXII was just terrible (who the hell thinks hours of grinding for items is one of the "best aspects" of MMOs?). FFXIII isn't even an RPG IMO.

In the end, I think I would cry like a teenage girl that got dumped on prom night if ES became an MMO.

[Ashley Tamen]

I would love for Bethesda to release an Elder Scrolls MMO.

Just think about it for a moment.

The majority of the users here are people who love in depth RPGs that do not appeal to the casual gamer. If Bethesda made an MMO, then they could milk those casual gamers on a monthly basis meaning they would be rolling in money. Rolling in money means that they don't need to appeal to casual gamers with their single player games anymore and would be free to make them challenging, exciting, and in-depth again.

An MMO is a win win win. Casual gamers get their casual game. Bethesda gets to be rolling in money. We get single player RPGs that are not "mainstreamed" for large market appeal.

[naome duncan]

I would just like to say:

SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO RUIN THE ELDER SCROLLS SERIES BY ADDING ANY SORT OF MULTIPLAYER!

[Unstoppable Judge]

if they release multilayer, they need to have a main game first, like release it as a DLC, because a lot of people don't want it, and if it is brought in later a lot of people will buy the game just for that, if its just online a lot of people will be mad and never buy it. as indicated by the person above

[Enny Labinjo]

I would just like to say:

SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO RUIN THE ELDER SCROLLS SERIES BY ADDING ANY SORT OF MULTIPLAYER!

Because hiring a mercinary, wannabe assassin or mage totally destroys TES lore.


Oh wait, we've already had that happen, where is your argument coming from again?

if they release multilayer, they need to have a main game first, like release it as a DLC, because a lot of people don't want it, and if it is brought in later a lot of people will buy the game just for that, if its just online a lot of people will be mad and never buy it. as indicated by the person above

1. As the OP/mod stated, you can't tack on multiplayer after the game is released, it would need to be developed during the production period or else it wouldn't work for a damn. EX: See Bioshock 2's laggy as hell multiplayer, or even the Multiplayer TES4 barely working mod.


2. You are seriously in denial if you think small minded people are going to avoid buying the next TES because it included OPTIONAL co-op.

[Auguste Bartholdi]

Well this is a nice civil discussion.

I think that co-op could work, but there would have to be some changes depending on the type of co-op. First of all, I don't really like the 'sidekick' option. That just seems like the developers saying 'we didn't really know what to do with multiplayer and were to lazy to figure it out, so here's some tacked on nonsense to shut people up. Hey, at least it's not Capture the Flag." If that's the best they can do, I'd rather not have it at all. So there's two options that I can think of off the top of my head that might be able to work:

1) Team Effort: This is your classic co-op. Think Baldur's Gate. The players set up the game together and play the game together. The primary challenges in this sort of design would revolve around challenge scaling. The easy (and worst) way to do this would be to simply scale HP. A far better way would be to scale encounter size and then include an AI that can coordinate multiple NPCs into a viable fighting force. The advantages of this sort of co-op would include the ability to choose who you play with, the ease in choosing who gets rewards (you can't all be the Archmage. Sorry), and that it's easy to scale encounters for. The primary disadvantage is that the players have to coordinate play times, since all are needed for the game to progress.

2) Equal, but Separate: This is the closest to a MMO that I would touch. Pretty much it revolves around a player owned server that multiple players can log onto and play the game as they please, helping each other out as they wish. The Evochron series of space sim games uses this, as does Minecraft. So do most PC FPS games, although in that case your options are limited to choosing who to shoot. To be honest, this would be a bit of a nightmare to design for in a game that is supposed to have a main plot with a beginning and an end. As such, I wouldn't expect to see this, although it does lend itself more to the sandbox mentality than the previous option. The advantages to this system would be that you are not chained to another player (or group of players), and that if the server is well managed, it can become what MMOs could have been if people didn't svck so much. The disadvantages of the system are many. First off all, how do you scale encounters for an unknown number of players in such a way as to present a consistent challenge? Second, this sort of multiplayer would almost have to mandate that no one could achieve the top tier of guild advancement when playing multiplayer. Either that or it would be first come, first serve. Fourth, while the first option wouldn't require too much effort to implement ( not a trivial amount, but certainly a manageable amount), this sort of multiplayer is the kind of concept that games are designed around, rather than merely being a nice feature. It would take tons of time and therefore money to incorporate into a series that has never had multiplayer before (not counting Battlespire). Again, while this would be a neat take on the Elder Scrolls series, I just can't see it being feasible.

[Camden Unglesbee]

Hello all,

I just wanted to continue the discussion of the very likely TES MMO being developed by ZeniMax Online right now, as well as TES:V and Fallout 4 which are both in development by Bethesda Game Studios.

Rumor of TES MMO and Fallout 4(check ZeniMax Online website as well for clues in the FAQ):
http://systemlink.gamersguidetolife.com/2010/10/bethesdazenimax-working-on-mmo-fantasy.html
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/10/18/rumor-elder-scrolls-mmo-in-the-works?icid=sphere_s4

Rumor of TES:V:
http://blog.machinima.com/insidegaming/2010/11/23/rumor-bethesda-working-on-elder-scrolls-v/
http://www.loudmouthedgamers.com/blog/2010/11/27/rumor-elder-scrolls-v
http://www.devicemag.com/2010/11/23/elder-scrolls-5-unofficially-confirmed/

Cheers to all of it being true!

Also in regards to the actual thread:

One of the things Bethesda has stood strong on is never adding any sort of online/multiplayer experience to their games (Elder Scrolls in particular). As the OP suggested, the engine, for one, is not built for such a task. Bethesda also prides themselves on creating the best, most memorable, immersive, epic, detailed and truly satisfying single player experiences they can make. By creating a co-op/multiplayer/online portion to the game, it would take away from the single player experience, and Bethesda feels that both aspects of the game would suffer and not be up to the standards that the fans are used to from Bethesda. That is exactly why ZeniMax Online has been created. In particular, they will only make MMORPGs, but they have full access to use all of Bethesda's IPs [TES and Fallout (Fallout Online is being created by Interplay which is the original creator of the Fallout IP)]. If you also check ZeniMax Online's FAQ, there are many hints that their in-development MMO is in fact an Elder Scrolls MMO. We won't know anything in regards about this MMO or TES:V and Fallout 4 until ZeniMax Online and Bethesda release more information, but it's likely all projects are in the works.

[DAVId Bryant]

Repost from the speculation thread:

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon# tweeted that he "had a good morning going over MMO stuff" earlier today. Since he mentions driving back later on in the post, it is almost certain that he went to talk with the folks at Zenimax Online (up in Hunt Valley, MD, hour and a half-ish from Bethesda HQ in Rockville).

In related news, ZO seems to be on the market for several client relation positions, like an HR manager and a network operations manager. This probably means that they are getting ready to reveal what ever they are working on, which would fit into the timeframe for developing an AAA MMO title from the ground up.

[Roddy]

Repost from the speculation thread:

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon# tweeted that he "had a good morning going over MMO stuff" earlier today. Since he mentions driving back later on in the post, it is almost certain that he went to talk with the folks at Zenimax Online (up in Hunt Valley, MD, hour and a half-ish from Bethesda HQ in Rockville).

In related news, ZO seems to be on the market for several client relation positions, like an HR manager and a network operations manager. This probably means that they are getting ready to reveal what ever they are working on, which would fit into the timeframe for developing an AAA MMO title from the ground up.

It's clear ZO is making a AAA MMO. We just need the confirmation now that their MMO is TES. If that is the case, I wonder how TES MMO and TES V would compare.

[Kortknee Bell]

It can't be a Fallout MMO. We know as much from the leaked court papers.

Ah, but you were not here for that. Bethesda Softworks and Interplay went to court.

Here's a link:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/maryland/mddce/1:2009cv02357/171540/

[Roy Harris]

I read up there on the other page that it is impossible to add multiplayer once the game is released, but i'm too lazy to quote here, but wouldn't it be possible by adding the multiplayer modes to TES 5 without haveing anybody able to use them? Then after half a year of work, they'd have this very basic multiplayer feature in TES 5, which they now update to be fully functional, or atleast partially functional for beta testing?

[SHAWNNA-KAY]

ok i love the idea for co-op, but my only question is what happens when one of the other players dies?

[Danii Brown]

I don't understand why people would want an MMO, how would a TES MMO be any different from any other fantasy mmo? MMOs have no depth at all.
Bethesda wouldn't be able to do it better than any other MMO, all MMOs are the same, look at AION, Age of Conan, vanguard, WoW, Guildwars, these
games are not about lore, just grinding. Having thousands of player doing the same quests over and over doesn't improve the game. But I understand
why people like MMOs, I did it too when I was younger, and liked it mostly because of the social aspect in them. But there are already hundreds of
MMOs that can give you the same that a TES MMO would give you. What would a TES MMO deliver that any other MMO can't?

As for cooperative multiplayer, aka LAN. I'm all for. That would give it more of a DnD feeling. The tavern idea I like, to find party members. Though
most questlines are designed for single player which would make it weird for the character who isn't the main character, I don't want it to become like
Sonic and tales.

So I'd much rather have the engine capable of multiplayer, but not integrated in the game. This would allow modders, or "Game masters", to design own
storylines that perhaps would require more players than one. This would require though that the construction set has the tools to make it quite easy to
design new areas, quests and dialog for multiple main characters. Have never looked at any construction set for TES games before, so I don't know
how good the tools are. But I believe this is the best approach for coop play. If the construction set can attract good game masters.

As for the arena mode, sure, for the original game and storyline this might be a fun addition, I don't really care much for this part, but it could attract
the competitive player market. Played the dark messiah multiplayer with some friends a long time ago (basicly a fantasy fps), which was really great.
1v1 Arena battles, 2v2 Arena battles and FFA arena battles. With different kinds of arenas, with pits, chained animals or any scenery. But, it would
crave a good combat system, so it really depended on skill, (for equal leveled characters).

ok i love the idea for co-op, but my only question is what happens when one of the other players dies?

I suppose a reload would do the trick (Worked for NWN1), a resurrect spell, resurrect regent, or a priest.

[Sudah mati ini Keparat]

I don't understand why people would want an MMO, how would a TES MMO be any different from any other fantasy mmo? MMOs have no depth at all.
Bethesda wouldn't be able to do it better than any other MMO, all MMOs are the same, look at AION, Age of Conan, vanguard, WoW, Guildwars, these
games are not about lore, just grinding. Having thousands of player doing the same quests over and over doesn't improve the game. But I understand
why people like MMOs, I did it too when I was younger, and liked it mostly because of the social aspect in them. But there are already hundreds of
MMOs that can give you the same that a TES MMO would give you. What would a TES MMO deliver that any other MMO can't?

Yes most MMOs are grindfests but many do revolve around lore. Guildwars is one of them, it is usually the cheap free ones that bring the MMO market down. Look at Guild Wars 2, it is bringing some amazing stuff into the genre. A TES MMO, could work very easily.

[Jennifer Munroe]

An Elder Scrolls MMO could also be continent-wide which is an extremely common request for TES games but one that is utterly unfeasible if done in the style of Bethesda's recent open world games.

[vicki kitterman]

I just want my buddy to be able to jump into my game and wreck shop on some dungeons. His character, his items, comin' in on my game. I don't care about anything other than that. "I don't want some 10-year-old screaming in my ear ..." blah blah blah is kind of a weird statement against multiplayer ... just don't play with idiotic ten-year-olds.

[Quick Draw]

Only multiplayer i would want would be cooperative play.

But instead of always having to follow the main character(first player). The 'Game Master' would host a world and everyone would choose their characters, skills, etc and play that character in that world. Everyone can do what they want in the Hosted game world and finish quests independently and seperately.
And of course just for the base game play by yourself.

Of course issues would be-

Quest and item Hording.

Monsters would be eaiser to kill with 2+ people and lead to many easy battles with bosses unless developed around coop play.


I think a party of maybe up to 10 would be a decent number for a world the size of oblivion type game world.


But never an MMO, gameplay just becomes shallow over time and everyone ends up looking the same with the best weapons and armor and class builds.

[Destinyscharm]

apparently Oblivions engine is great for online, but it was never made into one, I do think they should make an online game though, but do not focus on it more than single player, do not make it souly online.

[Crystal Clear]

The obsession with multiplayer games has killed game depth over the years...since it takes a lot more time and money to implement unless they cut corners. You will NOT be able to have your cake and eat it too.

[Jade Payton]

No MMO thanks...

but

I would like to see something like Red Dead Redemption or GTA!V I think that style of Co-op would be PERFECT for TES. Just an open world with none of the single player quests but they should add quests specifically for multiplayer. Also in RDR they had forts scattered all over the place that you and your friends could go in and kill everyone in it and you'd get exp.

Also they had the team deathmatch, CTF, etc battles too that you could just party up and go into whenever you wanted.

I think something along those lines would be fantastic.