[gandalf]

So... It means that there won't be any Skyrim game/trademark from Bethesda because they don't make it on time? All because this "Use Of Commerce" term ?

[Myles]

I have a rebuttal to your post, mr_pelion, but you know what, forget it. I don't know why I even bother arguing with you guys. It's as pointless as arguing with a wall. You guys clearly don't like this trademark and will go to great lengths to find excuses, no matter how implausible, as to why it can't possibly be used by Bethesda for TES V, if at all. But, believe whatever you want. Quite frankly I'm tired of seeing a new excuse every day that you guys have come up with to explain why the trademark cant or wont be used. What used to be a fun thing to speculate on has devolved into me and a few others fighting off a horde of pessimistic nay-sayers. Way to go guys, you successfully took the fun out of this topic. Clap clap clap clap clap.

As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. You can argue with the others all you want, but I'll just watch it from a distance, facepalming.

[ZANEY82]

I have a rebuttal to your post, mr_pelion, but you know what, forget it. I don't know why I even bother arguing with you guys. It's as pointless as arguing with a wall. You guys clearly don't like this trademark and will go to great lengths to find excuses, no matter how implausible, as to why it can't possibly be used by Bethesda for TES V, if at all. But, believe whatever you want. Quite frankly I'm tired of seeing a new excuse every day that you guys have come up with to explain why the trademark cant or wont be used. What used to be a fun thing to speculate on has devolved into me and a few others fighting off a horde of pessimistic nay-sayers. Way to go guys, you successfully took the fun out of this topic. Clap clap clap clap clap.

As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. You can argue with the others all you want, but I'll just watch it from a distance, facepalming.

Hey Antibody. Some of us enjoyed watching you quash the naysayers. Don't leave the crowd hanging man.

[He got the]

snip

Antibody chill. Go drink a soda, watch some TV, sleep a little then come back, they simply don't understand how this works, let me try my hand at it.

Ok, before i start, you guys need to understand the simple mechanics of what is going on, the game needs to be announced before the earliest (related) trademark expires. "But why?" you ask. If Beth decides to announce a game titled 'Skyrim' without the proper legal work, they could run into a variety of legal problems, not the least being that another company can get their hands on the trademark and ask a large amount of money for the trademark back.

Now lets say that whatever they are working on wasn't announced, the trademark goes by without a single peep of 'Skyrim', but we also find out that Beth has kept the trademark. That's ok. This means that some sort of proof was shown to the legal offices so we know for sure that they are working on something called Skyrim with a substantial amount of work on it done.

"But they can just file for an extension, can't they?" No they can't, because this is the final extension, and if they don't do something now then they will have to wait anywhere from a couple of months to a whole year to get a trademark again.

"So why are we looking at that specific date?" Because all the trademarks are linked, even if they are about separate things they are all for Skyrim. Each trademark is for a large portion of what Beth are selling, if one goes down, we can expect the rest to go down too. But if the earliest one stays up, we can expect the rest to stay up too.

Does that clear anything up :wink_smile:


EDIT / PS:

Anybody who believes anything a Beth developer says is a fool, just sayin' :whistling:

(seriously dont trust the dev's...ever!)

[Dean Ashcroft]

why all the naysayers?

I prefer to think that the trademake means something, rather then jsut throwing my hands up and saying 'it'll come when it comes'

yes the trademark is the biggest thing we have to go on, you remove that and this thread is pretty pointless, as we dont have anything else in the way of dates.


EDIT: I hope you arent put out by all this negativity antibody, you are a driving force in this thread.

[Jeremy Kenney]

Some of you best stay out of this thread for the time being, so let's cool it - OK?

[Brooke Turner]

"But they can just file for an extension, can't they?" No they can't, because this is the final extension, and if they don't do something now then they will have to wait anywhere from a couple of months to a whole year to get a trademark again.

I wasn't able to find anything related to a limit on the number of extensions, can you post me a link?

Also, I like Skyrim as a setting and would love TESV to be set there.

[Bad News Rogers]

I wasn't able to find anything related to a limit on the number of extensions, can you post me a link?

Also, I like Skyrim as a setting and would love TESV to be set there.

I just checked this and I think it might anwser your question... even though I'm not totally sure: http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/process/tm_sec1btimeline.jsp
Hover your cursor over step 14 on the diagram and it gives a short explanation. If you calculate the total time between the NOA and the date marking the end of the last period of the fifth possible extension, you get something of about 36 months.

[Colton Idonthavealastna]

I just checked this and I think it might anwser your question... even though I'm not totally sure: http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/process/tm_sec1btimeline.jsp
Hover your cursor over step 14 on the diagram and it gives a short explanation. If you calculate the total time between the NOA and the date marking the end of the last period of the fifth possible extension, you get something of about 36 months.

That is exactly what I needed. Thanks!

[Agnieszka Bak]

Im going to pour over every single detail WHEN it is announced. Im going to scour these forums to squeeze every last bit of information i can out of them to hype up an out of this world game that seems to defy belief.

Then when its released im going to scream on these forums because it did not live up to my hopes, and is "just" an extremely good game.

[removed]

[aisha jamil]

That is exactly what I needed. Thanks!

You can also check how these stipulations have worked out for the Skyrim trademarks by feeding the registration numbers - which you can find in the fourth post of this very thread - to the search box on http://tarr.uspto.gov/ page

Edit: use the first series of numbers for each of the trademarks listed in the post, and check 'U.S. serial number'... I didn't do that the first time I tried

[Damian Parsons]

You can also check how these stipulations have worked out for the Skyrim trademarks by feeding the registration numbers - which you can find in the fourth post of this very thread - to the search box on http://tarr.uspto.gov/ page

I'm actually pouring over the TARR info for the Oblivion trademark and comparing it to the Oblivion timeline... here is what I have so far:

??/??/2002 - Begin of Development
08/30/2003 - Initial Application for Trademark
09/??/2004 - Oblivion Announced
06/28/2005 - NOA mailed to Zenimax (begin first 6 month period)
12/19/2005 - First Extension filed (begin second 6 month period)
03/21/2006 - Oblivion Released for PC and XBox360
04/26/2006 - Statement of Use filed
10/10/2006 - Trademark Registered

And for Shivering Isles:

??/??/2006 - Begin of Development
08/23/2006 - Initial Application for Trademark
01/18/2007 - Shivering Isles Announced
03/26/2007 - Shivering Isles Released
06/26/2007 - NOA mailed to Zenimax (begin first 6 month period)
12/20/2007 - First Extension filed
06/19/2008 - Second Extension filed
12/22/2008 - Third Extension filed
06/26/2009 - Fourth Extension filed
06/28/2009 - Statement of Use filed
09/01/2009 - Trademark Registered

It seems that there is no predictable method to how Zenimax applies for trademarks.

[Victor Oropeza]

I'm actually pouring over the TARR info for the Oblivion trademark and comparing it to the Oblivion timeline... here is what I have so far:

??/??/2002 - Begin of Development
08/30/2003 - Initial Application for Trademark
09/??/2004 - Oblivion Announced
06/28/2005 - NOA mailed to Zenimax (begin first 6 month period)
12/19/2005 - First Extension filed (begin second 6 month period)
03/21/2006 - Oblivion Released for PC and XBox360
04/26/2006 - Statement of Use filed
10/10/2006 - Trademark Registered

And for Shivering Isles:

??/??/2006 - Begin of Development
08/23/2006 - Initial Application for Trademark
01/18/2007 - Shivering Isles Announced
03/26/2007 - Shivering Isles Released
06/26/2007 - NOA mailed to Zenimax (begin first 6 month period)
12/20/2007 - First Extension filed
06/19/2008 - Second Extension filed
12/22/2008 - Third Extension filed
06/26/2009 - Fourth Extension filed
06/28/2009 - Statement of Use filed
09/01/2009 - Trademark Registered

It seems that there is no predictable method to how Zenimax applies for trademarks.

No, but that doesn't really matter where Skyrim's concerned, because you have proof that they've filed (and have been granted) their last possible extensions on the three related trademarks. Add to that what you've just posted, making it seem that they're not liable to discard their trademarks even after multiple extensions, and you're likely to see some sort of an announcement concerning whatever the Skyrim trademarks turn out to be.

[Oceavision]

No, but that doesn't really matter where Skyrim's concerned, because you have proof that they've filed (and have been granted) their last possible extensions on the three related trademarks. Add to that what you've just posted, making it seem that they're not liable to discard their trademarks even after multiple extensions, and you're likely to see some sort of an announcement concerning whatever the Skyrim trademarks purport to.

It does make me wonder why the seemingly jumped the gun on the Skyrim application though. Even though Oblivion was delayed in its release it still didn't make it to 5 extensions.

[Chris Duncan]

It does make me wonder why the seemingly jumped the gun on the Skyrim application though. Even though Oblivion was delayed in its release it still didn't make it to 5 extensions.

Well, my personal line of thought on this is that they didn't accurately assess how much time and resources FO3 would take up from the outset of the project (for instance, at the beginning of the project size and scale of the DLC wasn't clear or something like that). I can't verify this line of thought. However, it would seem likely that FO3 did disturb their usual rythm of development because they couldn't devote a sizeabe number of their team towards another project. If you look at the past, as someone else has already posted, they've always applied for trademarks relating to their next TES-game pretty shortly after releasing the last one. That was probably the case because they knew they'd already started work on it or were going to in the very near future. Obviously, this flow of things changed after the last TES and I can only imagine it's because of FO3.

[DAVId Bryant]

Sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn't coming back to the thread, I simply meant that I'd stop trying to convince the people being pessimistic to be... less pessimistic. That's not going to happen, so why bother? I'll still be posting but I'm not going to try and convince people anymore, let them believe whatever they want to believe.

[herrade]

Well, my personal line of thought on this is that they didn't accurately assess how much time and resources FO3 would take up from the outset of the project (for instance, at the beginning of the project size and scale of the DLC wasn't clear or something like that). I can't verify this line of thought. However, it would seem likely that FO3 did disturb their usual rythm of development because they couldn't devote a sizeabe number of their team towards another project. If you look at the past, as someone else has already posted, they've always applied for trademarks relating to their next TES-game pretty shortly after releasing the last one. That was probably the case because they knew they'd already started work on it or were going to in the very near future. Obviously, this flow of things changed after the last TES and I can only imagine it's because of FO3.

Staggering how much can happen if you're not here constantly....

I agree with you. I think they had their hands full with Fallout and of course changing the game engine. It all may just have taken more time than they anticipated when they filed the trademark.

[Je suis]

I'm actually pouring over the TARR info for the Oblivion trademark and comparing it to the Oblivion timeline... here is what I have so far:

It seems that there is no predictable method to how Zenimax applies for trademarks.

Having more eyes on the trademark rules will help us arrive at a more rounded conclusion, so I appreciate you spending the time on it. I noticed that in all of the dates, the Statement of Use always followed the game's release. I checked all of Bethesda's previous games and they seem to follow the same pattern. Unless either I am grossly mistaken or 'Skyrim' is released this summer, we may as well cancel the party because that would suggest an announcement is not a sufficient use in commerce. Breaking down the 3 Skyrim trademarks:

1. Clothing, namely shirts, t-shirts, sweatshirts, sweaters, jackets; headgear, namely, headwear: must be used in commerce by 9-11-2010
2. Computer and video game user instruction manuals; magazines, books, and pamphlets concerning video games; computer and video game strategy guides: must be used in commerce by 7-31-2010 (an announcement with a GI article would be sufficient)
3. Computer game programs; downloadable computer game programs offered via handheld computers, wireless telephones and mobile and wireless devices: must be released by 8-14-2010 (if they have to follow previous patterns).

Well, gentlemen, I do fear we may be heading back to the drawing board on this one. While I am still certain an announcement is near, by shear force of hope and timing, I find myself not so certain of the things to come... Sorry, folks... :confused:

[Enny Labinjo]

Well, my personal line of thought on this is that they didn't accurately assess how much time and resources FO3 would take up from the outset of the project (for instance, at the beginning of the project size and scale of the DLC wasn't clear or something like that). I can't verify this line of thought. However, it would seem likely that FO3 did disturb their usual rythm of development because they couldn't devote a sizeabe number of their team towards another project. If you look at the past, as someone else has already posted, they've always applied for trademarks relating to their next TES-game pretty shortly after releasing the last one. That was probably the case because they knew they'd already started work on it or were going to in the very near future. Obviously, this flow of things changed after the last TES and I can only imagine it's because of FO3.

Exactly. We've also noticed that most of Oblivion's artists did not carry over to the Fallout 3 team, implying they either left the company or, more likely, that they began work on Skyrim since they now had a strong grasp of Tamriel. That should also indicate that they were working on this game from the trademark's inception, and possibly didn't expect it to take this long. We all remember Oughton's quote about a potential 2010 release.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn't coming back to the thread, I simply meant that I'd stop trying to convince the people being pessimistic to be... less pessimistic. That's not going to happen, so why bother? I'll still be posting but I'm not going to try and convince people anymore, let them believe whatever they want to believe.

I think TES:V will not be announced until E3 next year, and that Skyrim is just boring snow and ice and mountains, and that Nords are hairy and cultureless. I wants Summerset Isles only.

[Laura Cartwright]

I agree with you. I think they had their hands full with Fallout and of course changing the game engine. It all may just have taken more time than they anticipated when they filed the trademark.

Sure, but they could be more active in TES community also. Even If they don't show us new media or announce they could tell us something like "wait people some more time, we are working on something and it'll be great, we are reading your posts etc. and we're taking it into consideration". Now it looks like abandon fanbase or something

[chinadoll]

Having more eyes on the trademark rules will help us arrive at a more rounded conclusion, so I appreciate you spending the time on it. I noticed that in all of the dates, the Statement of Use always followed the game's release. I checked all of Bethesda's previous games and they seem to follow the same pattern. Unless either I am grossly mistaken or 'Skyrim' is released this summer, we may as well cancel the party because that would suggest an announcement is not a sufficient use in commerce. Breaking down the 3 Skyrim trademarks:

1. Clothing, namely shirts, t-shirts, sweatshirts, sweaters, jackets; headgear, namely, headwear: must be used in commerce by 9-11-2010
2. Computer and video game user instruction manuals; magazines, books, and pamphlets concerning video games; computer and video game strategy guides: must be used in commerce by 7-31-2010 (an announcement with a GI article would be sufficient)
3. Computer game programs; downloadable computer game programs offered via handheld computers, wireless telephones and mobile and wireless devices: must be released by 8-14-2010 (if they have to follow previous patterns).

Well, gentlemen, I do fear we may be heading back to the drawing board on this one. While I am still certain an announcement is near, by shear force of hope and timing, I find myself not so certain of the things to come... Sorry, folks... :confused:

Surely, when they renewed the trademark in January, they didn't think they'd be releasing it in August. One of the trademarks was renewed as recently as March. They, and their lawyers, much know something that we don't know, or know of a way to keep the trademark without releasing it. Because if not, then they've been renewing it instead of letting it expire and allowing them to get a new one because... they're not very bright?

[Dewayne Quattlebaum]

Sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn't coming back to the thread, I simply meant that I'd stop trying to convince the people being pessimistic to be... less pessimistic. That's not going to happen, so why bother? I'll still be posting but I'm not going to try and convince people anymore, let them believe whatever they want to believe.

That's the spirit! Everybody has an opinion on this topic and this thread is their way of sharing them with the rest of us.
For now nobody is right and nobody is wrong while we have had no actual announcement.
The ways of Bethesda....

[DarkGypsy]

Surely, when they renewed the trademark in January, they didn't think they'd be releasing it in August. One of the trademarks was renewed as recently as March. They, and their lawyers, much know something that we don't know, or know of a way to keep the trademark without releasing it. Because if not, then they've been renewing it instead of letting it expire and allowing them to get a new one because... they're not very bright?

I would surely hope as well, and I certainly would not actually expect a release this summer, but this would be a serious deviation from the normal pattern unless they know something we don't know. C'mon...what makes you think a lawyer with oodles of law education would know more about trademark than us hacks?

[Rude Gurl]

I would surely hope as well, and I certainly would not actually expect a release this summer, but this would be a serious deviation from the normal pattern unless they know something we don't know. C'mon...what makes you think a lawyer with oodles of law education would know more about trademark than us hacks?

Yeah, that's ridiculous

But yeah, the fact that they've renewed a trademark as recently as March makes me convinced that they must know something we don't. Unless they're currently registering for a new trademark outside of Skyrim and they're just renewing Skyrim because they've got all the money in the world. :shrug:

[Hilm Music]

Yeah, that's ridiculous

But yeah, the fact that they've renewed a trademark as recently as March makes me convinced that they must know something we don't. Unless they're currently registering for a new trademark outside of Skyrim and they're just renewing Skyrim because they've got all the money in the world. :shrug:

Is there a cost (outside of time spent) for filing extensions? I know that there is a $100 fee due at the time the SOU is submitted.