[bonita mathews]

7/11/2007 - E3 Private Showing for Fallout 3

That kept them from having to restart the whole trademark process, I am guessing. Like asking a whole bunch of good friends over that won't publicly bash the broken bits of your game.

I think that is what we are going to see this summer.

[Emmi Coolahan]

Are people saying the game may have to be legally released this august? That got me going a bit

And also just interested about that developer comment "potentially a new elder scrolls for 2010". Was this just blind planning from the guy? Or something more... serious about it

[Horror- Puppe]

So, about this whole "must be released" thing, what about Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3? Before they were even announced, did it say that they "must be released" or "use in commerce" for the game trademarks?


It doesn't make sense. Why would Zenimax continue to renew the "Skyrim" game trademark if they have to release it this August??

[Jessie Rae Brouillette]

So, about this whole "must be released" thing, what about Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3? Before they were even announced, did it say that they "must be released" or "use in commerce" for the game trademarks?


It doesn't make sense. Why would Zenimax continue to renew the "Skyrim" game trademark if they have to release it this August??

Probably "Used in commerce" because that sounds like more official trademark language. And this is something I missed the first lime tooking through

Just a thought...

If they were to use the name "Skyrim" in an announcement that included a trailer on their website (which, by definition, is a form of commerce that is lawfully regulated by commerce), or in any sort of public domain which is paid for (TV, magazines, etc.), then they would be within the legal definition of "used in commerce" and could be granted a statement of use. This would mean they don't have to release the game any time soon, but they would have to announce it by 8/14/2010. Thus, we can expect an announcement (if Skyrim is going to be used) before then, but the game does not have to be released.

EDIT: I do believe, however, that they would have to announce before then, as the game manual and merchandise trademarks will run out, and I can't see any way of using them in commerce without an actual product.

So some official cooperate acknowledgement that uses the title in some legally official arrangement. Like a PR show, or limited video game screening.

[Oyuki Manson Lavey]

Are people saying the game may have to be legally released this august? That got me going a bit

And also just interested about that developer comment "potentially a new elder scrolls for 2010". Was this just blind planning from the guy? Or something more... serious about it

Don't get your hopes up. I'm saying I'm not sure I know anything, but I highly doubt it'll be released this summer for a number of reasons. It's just that Bethesda has never submitted a statement of use for a game before it's been released. Since they have to prove its use in commerce by 8-14-2010 according to our interpretation of the trademark rules, either they're going to let it die or release it. Releasing it seems out of the question, so let's just say I'm really hoping there's a loophole we don't now about.

Somebody please prove me wrong here!

[Javier Borjas]

Don't get your hopes up. I'm saying I'm not sure I know anything, but I highly doubt it'll be released this summer for a number of reasons. It's just that Bethesda has never obtained a trademark for a game before it's been released. Since they have to prove its use in commerce by 8-14-2010 according to our interpretation of the trademark rules, either they're going to let it die or release it. Releasing it seems out of the question, so let's just say I'm really hoping there's a loophole we don't now about.

The loophole: "Skyrim" is another Travels game...

... but you actually have me starting to believe that they are going to let it die <>

[Jonathan Braz]

Don't get your hopes up. I'm saying I'm not sure I know anything, but I highly doubt it'll be released this summer for a number of reasons. It's just that Bethesda has never submitted a statement of use for a game before it's been released. Since they have to prove its use in commerce by 8-14-2010 according to our interpretation of the trademark rules, either they're going to let it die or release it. Releasing it seems out of the question, so let's just say I'm really hoping there's a loophole we don't now about.

Somebody please prove me wrong here!

Dude, I think we are missing something, and I think it has to do with the MMO, which supposedly "missed its 2009 reveal, and must be “very close to reveal by now”. I think we're missing something WRT the trademark and Zenimax Online. Call me an ass for saying this, but we're CLEARLY missing a big puzzle piece, and this MMO deal is becoming more and more probable as time advances in my opinion...

http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/20/source-bethesdas-elder-scrolls-mmo-missed-its-2009-reveal/

[Chris Ellis]

Dude, I think we are missing something, and I think it has to do with the MMO, which supposedly "missed its 2009 reveal, and must be “very close to reveal by now”. I think we're missing something WRT the trademark and Zenimax Online. Call me an ass for saying this, but we're CLEARLY missing a big puzzle piece, and this MMO deal is becoming more and more probable as time advances in my opinion...

http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/20/source-bethesdas-elder-scrolls-mmo-missed-its-2009-reveal/

The fact that the game has been worked on since late 06, when the trademarked was filed, and supposedly missed it 2009 reveal, Todd Howard(?) saying don't expect TES V for a while in 2008, is just too big of a coincidence for me. I'm still banking on this being an MMO

[Carolyne Bolt]

Dude, I think we are missing something, and I think it has to do with the MMO, which supposedly "missed its 2009 reveal, and must be “very close to reveal by now”. I think we're missing something WRT the trademark and Zenimax Online. Call me an ass for saying this, but we're CLEARLY missing a big puzzle piece, and this MMO deal is becoming more and more probable as time advances in my opinion...

http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/20/source-bethesdas-elder-scrolls-mmo-missed-its-2009-reveal/

There seems to be less information available about this MMO than we have on the next Elder Scrolls game, but it is still an unknown variable.

[Stu Clarke]

There seems to be less information available about this MMO than we have on the next Elder Scrolls game, but it is still an unknown variable.

And if with the author's version of Infern. City saying 2010 release for next game, then this would all fit. They'd have to announce this game VERY soon though, like within the next month if it were to be released in August.

[Jimmie Allen]

I think TES:V will not be announced until E3 next year, and that Skyrim is just boring snow and ice and mountains, and that Nords are hairy and cultureless. I wants Summerset Isles only.

Skyrim is not all boring snow and ice. There are some beautiful, colorful spots in skyrim. Was all Morrowind dunmer and ash?

Nope, don't believe you. I also think the moon landing was faked, and that the world will end in 2012.

Somebody please prove me wrong here!

Oooo, ermmm... Off the top of my head:

There are bound to be many trademarks belonging to non-profit organizations, providing items for free through charitable support.

There's also the possibility that Bethesda have to pay to exhibit at shows such as E3 and QuakeCon, and that Skyrim would therefore be contributing economically... indirectly.

Video Games, Films, Books, Music, etc. might be given leeway with the 'use in commerce' requirement, with trailers, adverts, and public demonstrations being acceptable if the office believes the product will definitely follow.

I could argue that 'commerce' is another term for commercial, which doesn't necessarily relate to cash and direct trade, rather that it just refers to public advertisemant (hence: tv commercials), but 'commerce' is defined by all the dictionary and web definitions I could find as 'the buying and selling of goods' <_<

I'm still going to remain hopeful, and bring up that good old 'why they would bother keeping the trademark running if they aren't even close to using it?' argument. Magic 8 ball says... "Outlook not so good."

[Cayal]

An expiration date is just a technicality, especially if you are a company. How do you think Duke Nukem Forever kept all of their trademarks for years and years? Do you seriously think every product that comes to market has done so within the same allotted trademark period? Bethesda is a big company with money, and the government will bend over for big companies with money. This trademark discussion is useless. They'll get an extension if they need one. A few grand in fees is a drop in the bucket to these guys.

[Justin]

Well, the trademarks for Skyrim were put in late 2006, and this article says work began on the MMO in late 2006, so... it's a possibility.

Then again, I'm doubtful that an Elder Scrolls MMO made by Zenimax Online would be called, "Skyrim". I would think that Bethesda Game Studios would reserve names of provinces and such.

[Deon Knight]

An expiration date is just a technicality, especially if you are a company. How do you think Duke Nukem Forever kept all of their trademarks for years and years? Do you seriously think every product that comes to market has done so within the same allotted trademark period? Bethesda is a big company with money, and the government will bend over for big companies with money. This trademark discussion is useless. They'll get an extension if they need one. A few grand in fees is a drop in the bucket to these guys.

You do make a very good point, except that "Duke Nukem Forever" doesn't have a trademark.

Perhaps I could lesson my breathing pace and allow oxygen to return to my brain... I've been thinking about this, and there is the option that they could just refile the application. There's really not much of a window of opportunity for scavengers if Zenimax gets their application in right away. Even though it may take a year to go through the process again, if they announced it soon they would be ready to release it in about a year anyway...and everyone lives happily ever after!

[Marcin Tomkow]

On the issue of 'use in commerce' and the need to release the game in order to satisfy it. Just one simple question.


What about pre-orders?

[Tina Tupou]

So, if this MMO is really Skyrim, then there are no other Elder Scrolls related trademarks to be used... We'll just have to wait and see.

[Robyn Lena]

What about pre-orders?

Now there's a yummy thought! I don't know, but it certainly seems plausible.

So, if this MMO is really Skyrim, then there are no other Elder Scrolls related trademarks to be used... We'll just have to wait and see.

I still don't think it's the MMO. I think if anything, if it is indeed an Elder Scrolls MMO (which we really don't know), it would be a generic name like "Elder Scrolls Online" or something like that.

[Claire]

Battlespire and Shadowkey (and even Arena) aren't technically locations yet they are games in TES... so even if Skyrim is (big IF) the MMO, that doesn't prevent other Zenimax trademarks from becoming TESV, there is the Deathmark trademark still... but I just don't see calling an MMO Skyrim, when it is such a localized name. That is like calling Star Wars: Tatooine or Country of Warcraft, or Second Life: the College Campus...

[BrEezy Baby]

I still don't think it's the MMO. I think if anything, if it is indeed an Elder Scrolls MMO (which we really don't know), it would be a generic name like "Elder Scrolls Online" or something like that.

Battlespire and Shadowkey (and even Arena) aren't technically locations yet they are games in TES... so even if Skyrim is (big IF) the MMO, that doesn't prevent other Zenimax trademarks from becoming TESV, there is the Deathmark trademark still... but I just don't see calling an MMO Skyrim, when it is such a localized name. That is like calling Star Wars: Tatooine or Country of Warcraft, or Second Life: the College Campus...

Makes sense.



Although, what doesn't make sense... How can development on the MMO begin in late 2006, if Zenimax Online didn't even exist at that point? ...Unless it did exist secretly and Zenimax never told us.

[Dylan Markese]

I really don't think that the game needs to be released to be justified as being used in commerce. If the game were present at a E3 or QuakeCon, which are events meant generate revenue, therefore commerce, Beth would still satifsy the use in commerce requirement. Same thing with posting a trailer online, as it could be said that the trailer of the game (which I would assume would have to feature actual gameplay since the trademark is for a game) was meant to increase traffic for the elder scrolls website, which would be use in commerce, as the site advertises and sells (loosely put) games. Thus it would still satisfy the requirement. The game itself doesn't necessarily have to be in trade to be in use in commerce, they just have to justify its appearance as generating commerce. Like I said before, though, I would think they would have to show actual game footage, as the trademark is for a game.

It also makes more sense for them to announce before the deadline on the manuals trademark, as its only a few days before the game trademark, and otherwise they would have to wait months to get a new one for manuals. So expect an announcement before then, but nothing more. They can't possibly announce a game and release it in a matter of 3 months.

[Trevor Bostwick]

I like the idea of pre-orders and then the showing of the trailer.

[Eve Booker]

They can't possibly announce a game and release it in a matter of 3 months.

Agreed. That would be ridiculous.

I am hoping that "Use in Commerce" can indeed deviate from their past pattern and that a simple reveal of the game would be sufficient. This is an unknown to which I have no appreciative answer. Perhaps someone could take some time to research other games from companies to see where their "Statement of Use" lines up with the game's release.

[carrie roche]

We'll just have to wait and see.

Or, we could add a new speculation thread. :celebration:

[Nims]

Anyone want to comment on that?

Although, what doesn't make sense... How can development on the MMO begin in late 2006, if Zenimax Online didn't even exist at that point? ...Unless it did exist secretly and Zenimax never told us.

[NO suckers In Here]

Anyone want to comment on that?

Companies work on products all the time and divide themselves after the products are in development based upon the resources that they would like to devote to it. LL Bean is a perfect example. The original company created hunting gear and boots in a store in Freeport, ME (which is still operational today) but the big business came when Leon Bean began handing catalogs out to his customers who took them home after they left Maine from vacation... now LL Bean has one of the most successful catalog companies-- an idea which began before the creation of this division. Zenimax could have been working on an MMO and realized they needed to devote the necessary resources, perhaps even those that did not migrate Oblivion to FO3 (since we know about half of the artists do not appear in the credits for FO3) as well as the revenue leverage of a separate business division.