[Katie Samuel]

The fact that I enjoy Morrowind over Oblivion in every way disproves what you just said.
Pretty doesn't mean immersive.

I love them and Daggerfall as well, but their graphics were great when they came out and, even if Oblivion is aged by today's graphics, I still love hiking in it and just looking at the scenery. It still looks amazing, to me. Anyway, I didn't say they make or break an Elder Scrolls game, but Bethesda tries to make nice looking games, and graphics are an important addition. I don't need amazing graphics, but they are a nice, and expected, bonus from Bethesda. People still seem angry about those dynamic shadows being cut from Oblivion.

[Anthony Santillan]

The fact that I enjoy Morrowind over Oblivion in every way disproves what you just said.
Pretty doesn't mean immersive.

I think what he meant was that, despite anything Bethesda has every done or failed at or whatever, they always manage to make their games look good, even if they aren't the graphical pinnacle of their times, people will still look at them and say "Damn, that looks pretty cool." They're also pretty good at creating graphics that age gracefully.

[james tait]

They do in an Elder Scrolls experience, where we see a huge, open world from first-person view and in real-time. Bethesda has always made pretty games.

The fact that I enjoy Morrowind over Oblivion in every way disproves what you just said.
Pretty doesn't mean immersive.

I love them and Daggerfall as well, but their graphics were great when they came out and, even if Oblivion is aged by today's graphics, I still love hiking in it and just looking at the scenery. It still looks amazing, to me. Anyway, I didn't say they make or break an Elder Scrolls game, but Bethesda tries to make nice looking games, and graphics are an important addition. I don't need amazing graphics, but they are a nice, and expected, bonus from Bethesda. People still seem angry about those dynamic shadows being cut from Oblivion.

Geez guys...THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR DISCUSSING GRAPHICS. Please take this "outside".

[Chloé]

Two points:

1.) It's not impossible that TES:V could use directx 11 I know of a few ( could be tons I don't truly know how many there are) games that allow multiple versions of directx. Bioshock for instance allowed 9 and 10. And the step up in the actual coding of the game probably isn't but so much different. Probably just minor keyword differences and calling the use of different interfaces when writing the classes So even if the developer doesn't get a hold of DX11 till the last minute it's possible (although probably not likely) they could implement it quickly. They would be quite stupid to implement 11 and not 10 however.

2.) I personally don't think they would wait until quakecon to announce the new game (at least not a game of this magnitude). I see it as a way for the game and quakecon to get exposure if they do it just before (which legally they would have to anyway). If they announce that TES:V will be previewed at quakecon, all of us pay attention to quakecon and all of the quakecon guys pay attention to TES:V. Win-Win for Bethesda (a win for us as well :celebration: ) If ( I say if because there are some here that do not believe as the rest of us) they are tot announce the game soon I believe this is how it will happen. Be it game informer or website or both, It will be announced before quakecon and used to draw attention to quakecon.

[chinadoll]

Two points:

1.) It's not impossible that TES:V could use directx 11 I know of a few ( could be tons I don't truly know how many there are) games that allow multiple versions of directx. Bioshock for instance allowed 9 and 10. And the step up in the actual coding of the game probably isn't but so much different. Probably just minor keyword differences and calling the use of different interfaces when writing the classes So even if the developer doesn't get a hold of DX11 till the last minute it's possible (although probably not likely) they could implement it quickly. They would be quite stupid to implement 11 and not 10 however.

Um... adding another supported version of DirectX is NOT that easy. The versions are very different, which is why you can't even run DX11 on Windows XP. They could allow two different versions but it would require much more than a simple change in code to do so.

[Charles Mckinna]

*sigh*

here are pretty much the confirmed facts.
- ZeniMax bought the tradmark of 'Skyrim' thati s going to expire July 31st.
- Bethesda have stated they will do another Elder Scrolls game
- Bethesda are currently developing a game.
- Obsidian have said Bethesda are not currently working another Fallout game.
- Pete has said that E3 is a bad place to annonce a game, has instead said QuakeCon would be better

My conclusion.
If the trademark is indeed releated to TES5, then I suspect an annoncement before July 31st, with a bigger reveal at QuakeCon (hence so they pull in both ID and Bethseoft fans to the same event, helping both companies). This is the theory that makes the most sense to me, if fits all the facts.

[Emilie Joseph]

*sigh*

here are pretty much the confirmed facts.
- ZeniMax bought the tradmark of 'Skyrim' thati s going to expire July 31st.
- Bethesda have stated they will do another Elder Scrolls game
- Bethesda are currently developing a game.
- Obsidian have said Bethesda are not currently working another Fallout game.
- Pete has said that E3 is a bad place to annonce a game, has instead said QuakeCon would be better

My conclusion.
If the trademark is indeed releated to TES5, then I suspect an annoncement before July 31st, with a bigger reveal at QuakeCon (hence so they pull in both ID and Bethseoft fans to the same event, helping both companies). This is the theory that makes the most sense to me, if fits all the facts.

I can pretty much agree with that.

[xxLindsAffec]

*sigh*

here are pretty much the confirmed facts.
- ZeniMax bought the tradmark of 'Skyrim' thati s going to expire July 31st.
- Bethesda have stated they will do another Elder Scrolls game
- Bethesda are currently developing a game.
- Obsidian have said Bethesda are not currently working another Fallout game.
- Pete has said that E3 is a bad place to annonce a game, has instead said QuakeCon would be better

My conclusion.
If the trademark is indeed releated to TES5, then I suspect an annoncement before July 31st, with a bigger reveal at QuakeCon (hence so they pull in both ID and Bethseoft fans to the same event, helping both companies). This is the theory that makes the most sense to me, if fits all the facts.

Well, if all things go right, my friends and I MIGHT go to either Blizzcon or QuakeCon, whichever we can afford/take the time and effort to do. We all love Doom and Quake to bits, so TES V being there would just make my forever.

[Syaza Ramali]

Bingo. Could be an iPhone app for all we know.

Yeah... Right

Why would they trademark Skyrim in 2006, then keep renewing it for about 4 more years, that must be one hell of an iphone app...
but in all seriousness I don't think that it could be the title for the MMO.
Because a MMO that takes place in only one Provence would become boring to hardcoe gamers real soon. They would make it spread out across tamriel and call it something about Tamriel in general. Since I believe the trademark is for a downloadable app, another for a game manual, another for merchandise, it will be TES:V. Will not use DX11, I don't see a big difference between DX10 and 11 anyway besides the tessellation or w/e so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Nothing to wait 2 more years for the next gen consoles over.

[Andrew Lang]

I can't imagine the irritation of TES fans on this forum when 12'th August Bethesda won't show new TES game...

Come on, I think there is more misinterpretations than signs which can confirm a new TES. We don't know anything. We're searching confirmation too hard trying to persuade each other that next game from Bethesda is a new TES. I really, really want to play new TES but I have bad feelings about announcement Role-Playing Game on QuakeCon. Who knows - maybe 'Deathmark' is FPS and not a super-extra Skyrim expansion. Bethesda made some good FPS games (Terminator games like Skynet etc.).

We don't know anything. We don't even have a straight confirmation about next TES title. I also don't think that Bethesda dump TES universe but I think we should cool down with these E3, Quakecon things and don't compose oneself too much. Maybe too pesimistic but some opinions here have too much expectations.

[Matt Gammond]

I can't imagine the irritation of TES fans on this forum when 12'th August Bethesda won't show new TES game...

Come on, I think there is more misinterpretations than signs which can confirm a new TES. We don't know anything. We're searching confirmation too hard trying to persuade each other that next game from Bethesda is a new TES. I really, really want to play new TES but I have bad feelings about announcement Role-Playing Game on QuakeCon. Who knows - maybe 'Deathmark' is FPS and not a super-extra Skyrim expansion. Bethesda made some good FPS games (Terminator games like Skynet etc.).

We don't know anything. We don't even have a straight confirmation about next TES title. I also don't think that Bethesda dump TES universe but I think we should cool down with these E3, Quakecon things and don't compose oneself too much. Maybe too pesimistic but some opinions here have too much expectations.

I can't imagine the how irritated you nay-sayers will be when they actually announce it.

Actually, nobody is going to be irritated come August 12. They'll either be happy about seeing it or they wont care because it wasn't announced before August. The day the Skyrim trademark expires is July 31st, and if there's no announcement before then, then nobody will care about QuakeCon because we'll know that they can't announce it or show it off there. The fact of the matter is that if they let the trademark expire, posting in this topic will be absolutely pointless until they get a new trademark, which could take anywhere from a few months to a year.

[sally coker]

I won't be irritated, trust me

I don't want to be seen as nay-sayer, but when I read in interview words from Pete Hines - "But as far as new announcements, I think we would either do those kinds of things and maybe be more inclined to do them at events like QuakeCon." Why I should not believe him? Don't believe that announcement of something (maybe not TESV) could be/will be on QuakeCon, not earlier. So this trademark thesis was logic, but when Pete Hines suggested an annoucement date later than July 31st, some people don't let some sad thoughts.

[JaNnatul Naimah]

Remember folks, that all of this "July is the last month" deal springs only from an assumption that they must announce the game publicly to keep the trademark. What if that's not the case? Do they show the trademark folks their work to prove they are doing it? Can they set an official date with the trademark folks in which they will announce it publicly in order to keep the trademark? If even one of these is true then the announcement could come at Quakecon. Hell, it could come next year for all we know.

I think what is most important to realize is that, despite our great information gathering, we've really hit a brick wall and are now simply making assumptions. And you know what they say about assumptions...

[Jose ordaz]

Remember folks, that all of this "July is the last month" deal springs only from an assumption that they must announce the game publicly to keep the trademark. What if that's not the case? Do they show the trademark folks their work to prove they are doing it? Can they set an official date with the trademark folks in which they will announce it publicly in order to keep the trademark? If even one of these is true then the announcement could come at Quakecon. Hell, it could come next year for all we know.

I think what is most important to realize is that, despite our great information gathering, we've really hit a brick wall and are now simply making assumptions. And you know what they say about assumptions...

But like I've said before, it doesn't really matter what they do. Lets say they can and do convince the USTPO that they're using it without announcing it publicly. Well, they can't actually keep that hidden from us. If they file a Statement of Use and the trademark doesn't expire after July 31st, we'll be 100% certain that they'll be using it, and will likely announce it soon. Whatever they do with the trademark can easily be viewed by the general public. No matter what happens, we'll get our answer on July 31st in the form of whether or not it expires.

[Alexandra walker]

I'll stick with the IRC prophet on this one: If Atlus can make E3 announcements, Bethesda certainly won't have a hard time pulling it off.

I'd imagine there will be something at QuakeCon. There's no point in Hines saying something like that without delivering. I'm sure he'd like the environment, but... E3 announcement with a QuakeCon Debut works nicely, really. The press shows up for E3. You announce TESV, show the logo, and offer some merchandise. But no gameplay, no demos...

Instead, you do all that in the midst of a massive fan event, where you can really get down and dirty with the players. Take TES to a different audience, while also being able to show off, for example, some possible demos of what idTech 5 could do as a future TES engine. Of course, for grins, you'd spawn a bunch of guys with guns, and proceed to cheer Carmack on as he chases Todd Howard around the demo world with a chainsaw and a BFG.

[adam holden]

I'll stick with the IRC prophet on this one: If Atlus can make E3 announcements, Bethesda certainly won't have a hard time pulling it off.

I'd imagine there will be something at QuakeCon. There's no point in Hines saying something like that without delivering. I'm sure he'd like the environment, but... E3 announcement with a QuakeCon Debut works nicely, really. The press shows up for E3. You announce TESV, show the logo, and offer some merchandise. But no gameplay, no demos...

Instead, you do all that in the midst of a massive fan event, where you can really get down and dirty with the players. Take TES to a different audience, while also being able to show off, for example, some possible demos of what idTech 5 could do as a future TES engine. Of course, for grins, you'd spawn a bunch of guys with guns, and proceed to cheer Carmack on as he chases Todd Howard around the demo world with a chainsaw and a BFG.

Too much expectations. IMO.

[Haley Cooper]

Okay, yeah I know it's crazy to assign dates and all that jazz, and YES I'll admit there doesn't seem to be much point, but rather than read a back and forth about "yes they will" and "no you crazy!" here are my accumulated known facts and assumptions in a tidy little package for TESV. I'm stickin' with that 6/2 date, mister! Haha

TESV: ((Skyrim))
3/20/2006 – TESIV released (potential start date for concept artist not used/completed on FO3)
10/10/2006 – Skyrim Trademark Application Date
10/28/2008 – Bethesda resources divided into “next big project” and FO3 DLC
10/14/2009 – The Infernal City Release Date set (Amazon.com retracts “200 years” statement)
11/24/2009 – The Infernal City Released
1/15/2010 – TESting Your Knowledge Trivia Begins (Prize: The Infernal City)
3/30/2010 – TESting Your Knowledge Trivia Ends (Prize: The Infernal City)
4/27/2010 – Bethesda Store Returns with TESIV DLC (Skyrim trademark is for clothing/booklets)
6/2/2010 - elderscrolls.com is updated with an announcement of TESV
6/7/2010 – Cover of GameInformer reveals first screens of TESV (July Edition)
6/14/2010 – Bethesda Online Store includes Official TESV merchandise clothing/booklets
6/15/2010 – E3 begins and Bethesda reveals game play footage of TESV
7/13/2010 - Second Elder Scrolls release date is revealed
7/31/2010 – Skyrim clothing/booklets Trademark Expires
8/12/2010 – QuakeCon (possible marketing platform for TESV)
11/23/2010 - Second Elder Scrolls novel is released and release date of 3/15/2011 for TESV is revealed
3/15/2011 – TESV Released


I'll start my checklist of right and wrong on 6/2 and we'll see if I get any right

[Sara Johanna Scenariste]

Remember folks, that all of this "July is the last month" deal springs only from an assumption that they must announce the game publicly to keep the trademark. What if that's not the case? Do they show the trademark folks their work to prove they are doing it? Can they set an official date with the trademark folks in which they will announce it publicly in order to keep the trademark? If even one of these is true then the announcement could come at Quakecon. Hell, it could come next year for all we know.

Sigh. This is not an assumption. They have to prove "Skyrim's" use in commerce, which if you read the rules can have no other interpretation than some sort of public display or announcement of services. There is no and, if, or but about it. Even if TES:V isn't announced by July 31st, some game named "Skyrim" that they're working on has to be announced (or let it die). Given all the evidence (book gaffs, time lines, etc.), it is very likely this game called "Skyrim" that has to be "used in commerce" by July 31st is TES:V.

Instead, you do all that in the midst of a massive fan event, where you can really get down and dirty with the players. Take TES to a different audience, while also being able to show off, for example, some possible demos of what idTech 5 could do as a future TES engine. Of course, for grins, you'd spawn a bunch of guys with guns, and proceed to cheer Carmack on as he chases Todd Howard around the demo world with a chainsaw and a BFG.

I HIGHLY doubt that idTech5 will be the engine they use for TES:V for a multitude of reasons, but mainly because they would have started developing TES:V before ID was acquired by Zenimax Media.

[naomi]

3/15/2011 – TESV Released

That is a relief, i thought i was the only one around to think it would come out in 2011.

[kitten maciver]

That is a relief, i thought i was the only one around to think it would come out in 2011.

There's a decent chance it will come out in 2011, but March 2011 is far too early an estimate. Any guesses of a release date that's less than a year after the announcement are very likely to be wrong, Bethesda simply does not do that. If it's announced in, say, early July 2010, a Fall 2011 release is reasonable, but any earlier than that just isn't plausible.

[Emma Pennington]

Sigh. This is not an assumption. They have to prove "Skyrim's" use in commerce, which if you read the rules can have no other interpretation than some sort of public display or announcement of services. There is no and, if, or but about it. Even if TES:V isn't announced by July 31st, some game named "Skyrim" that they're working on has to be announced (or let it die). Given all the evidence (book gaffs, time lines, etc.), it is very likely this game called "Skyrim" that has to be "used in commerce" by July 31st is TES:V.

"Use in Commerce" does not encompass an annoucement:

a mark shall be deemed to be in "use in commerce" —
( 1 ) on goods when —
( A ) it is placed in any manner on the goods or their containers or the displays associated therewith or on the tags or labels affixed thereto, or if the nature of the goods makes such placement impracticable, then on documents associated with the goods or their sale, and
( B ) the goods are sold or transported in commerce
§45 (15 U.S.C. §1127)

At the very minimum, the legal definition of "use in commerce" clearly requires the product to be on the way to the shelves.
My guess is that "Skyrim" will either:
A. Expire because they applied too early and ran into complications which delayed the development
B. Be used for some other purpose
C. Be the greatest red herring ever

There just isn't enough time left for them to announce the game, hype it, and then release it by July 31.

[roxxii lenaghan]

The trademark expiring on July 31st isn't for the game, it's for:

"Computer and video game user instruction manuals; magazines, books, and pamphlets concerning video games; computer and video game strategy guides"

But the reason we're obsessing over July 31st is because once that expires, the other trademarks are meaningless. And the things this particular trademark can be used for are much easier to make than the actual video game.

[Brooke Turner]

The trademark expiring on July 31st isn't for the game, it's for:

"Computer and video game user instruction manuals; magazines, books, and pamphlets concerning video games; computer and video game strategy guides"

This makes no sense since the game trademark was applied for on October 10, 2006 while the game manual was applied for on November 15, 2006. This would mean that the manuals would expire about a month after the game trademark expires. If the manuals expire on July 31, shouldn't you actually be worried about June 30?

[Hayley Bristow]

This makes no sense since the game trademark was applied for on October 10, 2006 while the game manual was applied for on November 15, 2006. This would mean that the manuals would expire about a month after the game trademark expires. If the manuals expire on July 31, shouldn't you actually be worried about June 30?

No, you're looking at the wrong dates. Go and look at the "TARR STATUS" and look at the Notice of Allowance dates and you'll see that the manuals actually expire before everything else. 36 months after a Notice of Allowance is issued the trademark will expire if a Statement of Use isn't filed.

[Markie Mark]

No, you're looking at the wrong dates. Go and look at the "TARR STATUS" and look at the Notice of Allowance dates and you'll see that the manuals actually expire before everything else. 36 months after a Notice of Allowance is issued the trademark will expire if a Statement of Use isn't filed.

Statement of Use:
a sworn statement signed by the applicant or a person authorized to sign on behalf of the applicant attesting to use of the mark in commerce. With a statement of use, the owner must submit:
(1) a filing fee of $100 per class of goods/services; and
(2) one specimen showing use of the mark in commerce for each class of goods/services.

Statements of use must be filed within 6 months from the date the USPTO issues a notice of allowance. Failure to submit the statement of use in a timely manner results in abandonment of the application.

This suggests that all they need to do is show the Patent office an example of the box. Use in Commerce is an official term and is not used in the above definition.