[IsAiah AkA figgy]

No, this is not correct the way I understand it. How do you know that "spending money on it" is considered "Use in Commerce"? If this were the case, then why have they not yet filed their "Statement of Use"? This isn't about keeping a trademark, but actually obtaining one. They're still technically applying for the trademark and must file a "Statement of Use" by 7-31-2010, 8-14-2010, or 9-11-2010 (depending on which trademark) or else they will be considered abandoned. According to the rules I've read, they cannot file the required "Statement of Use" until they can prove its use in commerce. So my question again, if they're meeting the requirement for "Use in Commerce" then why have they not yet filed the "Statement of Use"?

I apologize for the questions, but besides the pre-order idea, I have yet to have a good answer to these questions.

I can't seem to find an instance where the statement of use was issued before the product was released... I'll see what I can dig up, but all the ones that I looked at so far were after the product release.

[Richus Dude]

snip

snip

Example: I could spend all the money I want on Twinkies, and remove the cream filling to make a Twinkie Cake Castle, but if I applied for a trademark I would not get it until the TCC could be bought and sold publicly. Like a TCC tour.
Right now ESV is still privatized to Bethesda, the company.

[edit] and don't get any ideas about this. Consider the TCC patent pending.

[Rachell Katherine]

I would like to speculate that, regardless of the trademark issue, I will love this game no matter what. :celebration:

[Amiee Kent]

Example: I could spend all the money I want on Twinkies, and remove the cream filling to make a Twinkie Cake Castle, but if I applied for a trademark I would not get it until the TCC could be bought and sold publicly. Like a TCC tour.
Right now ESV is still privatized to Bethesda, the company.

[edit] and don't get any ideas about this. Consider the TCC patent pending.

Don't worry, I'm sure your idea is safe. I'm not so sure on your explanation, as there is apparently at least some debate on what exactly 'use in commerce' means. To use your genious example: Is 'use in commerce' limited to selling the TCC itself or could the distribution of TCC-branded merchandise, as a means of advertising TCC's future arrival, do the trick as well?

[Jennie Skeletons]

Guys, its apparent that none of us are lawyers, so just relax until the trademark date expires. No use putting extra stress on yourselves because of some ambiguous legal thing, let it go. Just wait it out, if the trademark expires, then that is just one more possibility scratched and a few more with better chances, just chill with me and lurk. :disguise:

Oh and i love the TCC idea, how about a Bounty spin-off :icecream:

[Strawberry]

Guys, its apparent that none of us are lawyers, so just relax until the trademark date expires. No use putting extra stress on yourselves because of some ambiguous legal thing, let it go. Just wait it out, if the trademark expires, then that is just one more possibility scratched and a few more with better chances, just chill with me and lurk. :disguise:

Oh and i love the TCC idea, how about a Bounty spin-off :icecream:

Heehee, the stress is gone!! Uh, now what do we talk about?! Haha, we are going over every detail of the trademark because frankly, I am having fun speculating, and I don't mind learning random trademark facts along the way... there just isn't anything else to speculate on, but certainly hasn't gotten my panties in a bunch If the next piece of info was that Bethesda Softworks just hired an orangutan expert as a consultant you bet I'd start learning about the gentle hairy giant too so that when we speculate about all their monkey-business we can speak intelligently (oh and don't you dare tell me they aren't monkey's and that they are Great Apes.. I've been doing my research!) Haahaa...

[P PoLlo]

Heehee, the stress is gone!! Uh, now what do we talk about?! Haha, we are going over every detail of the trademark because frankly, I am having fun speculating, and I don't mind learning random trademark facts along the way... there just isn't anything else to speculate on, but certainly hasn't gotten my panties in a bunch If the next piece of info was that Bethesda Softworks just hired an orangutan expert as a consultant you bet I'd start learning about the gentle hairy giant too so that when we speculate about all their monkey-business we can speak intelligently (oh and don't you dare tell me they aren't monkey's and that they are Great Apes.. I've been doing my research!) Haahaa...

My sentiments exactly... erm, well not 'exactly' to the letter, but the general gist of what SyltStryder said

[Cameron Wood]

Don't worry, I'm sure your idea is safe. I'm not so sure on your explanation, as there is apparently at least some debate on what exactly 'use in commerce' means. To use your genious example: Is 'use in commerce' limited to selling the TCC itself or could the distribution of TCC-branded merchandise, as a means of advertising TCC's future arrival, do the trick as well?

The answer to this would be a different trademark for the merchandise. There are currently three pending trademark applications for "Skyrim": one for merchandise, one for game manuals and magazine publications, and another for the game itself.

@UnknownK: Good thought and I concur. It'll be well beyond this summer before we figure this trademark stuff out anyway...but it doesn't mean we can't have fun with it!

[Adriana Lenzo]

The answer to this would be a different trademark for the merchandise. There are currently three pending trademark applications for "Skyrim": one for merchandise, one for game manuals and magazine publications, and another for the game itself.

Yes, I already kind of regret putting merchandise in there as I know it's a different use of the name Skyrim and would require another trademark. Hence, the filing for the three trademarks we all know about.
But how about the advertising part? I've already posted http://inventors.about.com/od/definations/g/Commerce.htm, but in it the author clearly asserts that use in commerce could also mean advertising (read the 'in practical terms'-part)...



P.S.: Look, I know we aren't lawyers and this sort of speculation makes us go round and round again until the friction attracts lightning, but imo there's little else to speculate on atm

[Georgine Lee]

P.S.: Look, I know we aren't lawyers and this sort of speculation makes us go round and round again until the friction attracts lightning, but imo there's little else to speculate on atm

We can speculate on what would be included in a "Collector's Edition"...

[Scott Clemmons]

We can speculate on what would be included in a "Collector's Edition"...

Perhaps a 'making of' which includes a separate chapter on the trademarks-debacle, with exclusive footage of developers reading these threads and grinning...

[Project]

Nothing we didn't already know but i Figured it's worthy to be shared

What i Sent the trademark office:

What is considered use in commerce for a video game? Must it be available
for public to sell? And/or what must be provided for a statement of use of the
video game to go through?

What I got in Reply:

Thank you for contacting the Trademark Assistance Center (TAC) regarding use in
commerce information.

SPECIMEN:

A specimen shows how your trademark (mark) is actually used on your goods or in
connection with your services. Generally, you must submit a specimen before the
USPTO will register your mark.

For instance, a specimen for goods could be a tag, or packaging, or a picture of
the mark actually on the goods; a specimen for services could be an
advertisemant showing the mark used to advertise the services.

If you file your application under Trademark Act Section 1(a), also known as a
use-in-commerce application, you should provide your specimen at the time of
filing or the USPTO will require one before allowing your application to
proceed. If you file your application under Trademark Act Section 1(B), also
known as an intent-to-use application, you must provide your specimen when you
file your allegation of use. The fee for filing your allegation of use is $100
per class of goods or services in your application.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

General information about specimens is available at http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#Application006
. More detailed information about specimens is available in Chapter 900 of the
Trademark Manual of Examining Procedure at http://tess2.uspto.gov/tmdb/tmep/0900.htm
.

STATEMENT OF USE:

A statement of use (SOU) is a signed statement that the trademark is in use in
commerce. You must file an SOU within six months after the mailing date of the
notice of allowance (NOA) or within a previously granted extension of time for
filing a statement of use.

The NOA is written notification from the USPTO that your trademark has survived
the opposition period following publication in the Official Gazette and the
USPTO has allowed the trademark for registration. It does not mean that the
USPTO has registered the trademark. Receiving a NOA is another step on the way
to registration.

If you are not using the trademark when you receive the NOA, you must file
extension requests every six months from the date of the issuance of the NOA.
If granted, an extension request gives you an additional six months to either
file an SOU or file another extension request. You may file only 5 extension
requests, so you must file the SOU within 36 months of the date of the NOA.

FEES:

You must pay a filing fee of $100 per class of goods or services for filing an
SOU.

[FITTAS]

But how about the advertising part? I've already posted http://inventors.about.com/od/definations/g/Commerce.htm, but in it the author clearly asserts that use in commerce could also mean advertising (read the 'in practical terms'-part)...

I had assumed this as well until I noticed that statements of use were always filed AFTER the games' release which causes me to retract that assumption until we see an example that does not conform to this sequence. Regardless...this is still hope!

snip

Hmph. They answered your question without actually answering your question...typical government response! :banghead: Thanks for trying anyway!

[Felix Walde]

Nothing we didn't already know but i Figured it's worthy to be shared

What i Sent the trademark office:


What I got in Reply:

That's pretty much what I suspected as well. "Use in Commerce" is simply showing the trademark office what the final product looks like.

One would think that it would be relatively simple to make some box art before July 31st...

[Allison Sizemore]

I had assumed this as well until I noticed that statements of use were always filed AFTER the games' release which causes me to retract that assumption until we see an example that does not conform to this sequence. Regardless...this is still hope!

True... I'm just hoping for the best, by which I mean: we get an announcement this year

That's pretty much what I suspected as well. "Use in Commerce" is simply showing the trademark office what the final product looks like.One would think that it would be relatively simple to make some box art before July 31st...

I agree with Stain in that it doesn't say much. Specifically, I don't think this clears up what 'Use in commerce' means, it just clears up how you can prove it. Well, at least... I think it does that... :unsure:

[I love YOu]

I agree with Stain in that it doesn't say much. Specifically, I don't think this clears up what 'Use in commerce' means, it just clears up how you can prove it. Well, at least... I think it does that... :unsure:

Sure it doesn't say much, but my interpretation of it (and unfortunately I do have to read a lot of this government garbage as part of my job) is that "use in commerce" is merely a proof of concept in that they have to present a physical copy of the final product as it will appear. It still does not address whether the trademark office needs to see the game as well though, which may be the reason why games (at least all of the ones anyone has checked) are submitted after their release.

[Donatus Uwasomba]

Sure it doesn't say much, but my interpretation of it (and unfortunately I do have to read a lot of this government garbage as part of my job) is that "use in commerce" is merely a proof of concept in that they have to present a physical copy of the final product as it will appear. It still does not address whether the trademark office needs to see the game as well though, which may be the reason why games (at least all of the ones anyone has checked) are submitted after their release.

Well, if your interpretation holds true then all they need is http://tess2.uspto.gov/tmdb/tmep/0900.htm#_T90403e, which means a specimen needn't be an entire game, but just a picture or something of the like illustrating the use of the mark.

[Damian Parsons]

At the deadline coming up, does Zenimax have to show use in commerce, or do they have to file a statement of use?

The TARR for Skyrim says "Current Status: A request for the fifth extension of time to file a statement of use has been granted."

It looks like they need to file a statement of use.

[Dean]

At the deadline coming up, does Zenimax have to show use in commerce, or do they have to file a statement of use?

The TARR for Skyrim says "Current Status: A request for the fifth extension of time to file a statement of use has been granted."

It looks like they need to file a statement of use.

"A statement of use (SOU) is a signed statement that the trademark is in use in commerce." If they file a statement of use, they would also have to prove the use in commerce, which in turn requires a specimen.

[Cagla Cali]

Well, if your interpretation holds true then all they need is http://tess2.uspto.gov/tmdb/tmep/0900.htm#_T90403e, which means a specimen needn't be an entire game, but just a picture or something of the like illustrating the use of the mark.

Based on that it would appear that a trailer with game footage may be acceptable... hmmm.

[JD FROM HELL]

Based on that it would appear that a trailer with game footage may be acceptable... hmmm.

Yes, reading this got my hopes up as well, but then I read how it ended in "...and the goods are sold or transported in commerce." and I didn't know what to make of it anymore :shrug:

[Alyce Argabright]

Yes, reading this got my hopes up as well, but then I read how it ended in "...and the goods are sold or transported in commerce." and I didn't know what to make of it anymore :shrug:

Well, if nothing else, I am going to make trademark law reform an important part of my platform when I run for office.

[Far'ed K.G.h.m]

Well, if nothing else, I am going to make trademark law reform an important part of my platform when I run for office.

LOL :laugh:

[GPMG]

"A statement of use (SOU) is a signed statement that the trademark is in use in commerce." If they file a statement of use, they would also have to prove the use in commerce, which in turn requires a specimen.

Notice "A statement of use (SOU) is a signed statement that the trademark is in use in
commerce."

It sounds like Skyrim has to be used in commerce (i.e., for sale) for them to file a statement of use, and then to prove use in commerce they have to show a specimen. Which would mean it's not sufficient just to show a specimen, it also has to be available to purchase.

[lucy chadwick]

Notice "A statement of use (SOU) is a signed statement that the trademark is in use in
commerce."

It sounds like Skyrim has to be used in commerce (i.e., for sale) for them to file a statement of use, and then to prove use in commerce they have to show a specimen. Which would mean it's not sufficient just to show a specimen, it also has to be available to purchase.

That would definitely explain why the SoU was filed well after the release date of the previous games.