[Aaron Clark]

They did allow the Oblivion trademark to expire but that was only a short time after it was registered. They decided to go with Morrowind instead before they bring back Oblivion years later. But it is different with Skyrim as they keep on renewing it for 4 years now. And it doesn't make any sense to keep on renewing a trademark if you don't intend to use it in the near future.

Exactly my thinking. Bethesda has never been a group to waste things, and wasting time and money on repeatedly renewing a trademark they don't intend to use as a deliberate mislead or simply letting it go just doesn't fit in with the group I've been following since 2003.

Aside from which if we as a group were, like me as an individual, to assume a high degree of intelligence throughout Bethesda, then we would know they know that Elder Scrolls is (generally) both fan- and critically-acclaimed, and a cash cow. Collectively, it all comes together into a large, unified theory, at least in my brain:

Oblivion was a "back to basics" approach for TES, where the story was tightly focused on a single thing much like Arena, but it was Mehrunes Dagon himself instead of one of his pawns, at least on the whole. Now that means that Dagon's decades-long gambit for Tamriel has been foiled, and he needs to lick his wounds for a few centuries before trying again. The books are shaking up the status quo further, meaning that, like before Daggerfall, the stage is set and they can start from scratch. If we assume that they are using a pattern, that means that the next game will have far less central focus, far more freedom of choice and movement, and will also be very, very, very big.

This leads me to believe that Skyrim will be as close to Daggerfall's scale and scope as they can manage in a modern game, which is why it is taking so long for them to gather sufficient complete parts to announce in style. It will take time to make it even that far, but it will be so worth it.

[Vickytoria Vasquez]

Exactly my thinking. Bethesda has never been a group to waste things, and wasting time and money on repeatedly renewing a trademark they don't intend to use as a deliberate mislead or simply letting it go just doesn't fit in with the group I've been following since 2003.

Aside from which if we as a group were, like me as an individual, to assume a high degree of intelligence throughout Bethesda, then we would know they know that Elder Scrolls is (generally) both fan- and critically-acclaimed, and a cash cow. Collectively, it all comes together into a large, unified theory, at least in my brain:

Oblivion was a "back to basics" approach for TES, where the story was tightly focused on a single thing much like Arena, but it was Mehrunes Dagon himself instead of one of his pawns, at least on the whole. Now that means that Dagon's decades-long gambit for Tamriel has been foiled, and he needs to lick his wounds for a few centuries before trying again. The books are shaking up the status quo further, meaning that, like before Daggerfall, the stage is set and they can start from scratch. If we assume that they are using a pattern, that means that the next game will have far less central focus, far more freedom of choice and movement, and will also be very, very, very big.

This leads me to believe that Skyrim will be as close to Daggerfall's scale and scope as they can manage in a modern game, which is why it is taking so long for them to gather sufficient complete parts to announce in style. It will take time to make it even that far, but it will be so worth it.

I think you're going a little far in terms of Skyrim's scale. Sure we never know, but I believe Skyrim will be no bigger than Cyrodiil, with technology, games tend to be smaller as there are more details and it takes more time to make a game. That, and working for so long these days is a risk. I'd be surprised for TES V to be more complex than Oblivion.

[Irmacuba]

I think you're going a little far in terms of Skyrim's scale. Sure we never know, but I believe Skyrim will be no bigger than Cyrodiil, with technology, games tend to be smaller as there are more details and it takes more time to make a game. That, and working for so long these days is a risk. I'd be surprised for TES V to be more complex than Oblivion.

I agree. The technology focus today is on graphics and physics, not content. In order for the next TES game to be large, they would need to actually take a few steps back in the graphics and physics department (i.e. similar to Red Dead Redemption where everything is "nailed down", the view is exclusively 3rd person, and the gameworld is relatively empty except for actual game locations).

[Channing]

I think you're going a little far in terms of Skyrim's scale. Sure we never know, but I believe Skyrim will be no bigger than Cyrodiil, with technology, games tend to be smaller as there are more details and it takes more time to make a game. That, and working for so long these days is a risk. I'd be surprised for TES V to be more complex than Oblivion.

I'm expecting it to be at least a little larger then Cyrodiil was in Oblivion. They made the game world bigger in Oblivion then it was in Morrowind, so I doubt they want to stop that trend. :shrug:

[Alan Whiston]

I'm expecting it to be at least a little larger then Cyrodiil was in Oblivion. They made the game world bigger in Oblivion then it was in Morrowind, so I doubt they want to stop that trend. :shrug:

Isn't it funny how the map got larger but the game got smaller (less NPCs, less cities, less quests, etc.)? That's an even more used trend I hope they don't continue.

[matt white]

Isn't it funny how the map got larger but the game got smaller (less NPCs, less cities, less quests, etc.)? That's an even more used trend I hope they don't continue.

I'd rather have more locations in a smaller area as well but I'm simply saying I doubt they will want to do that.

[Tom]

Isn't it funny how the map got larger but the game got smaller (less NPCs, less cities, less quests, etc.)? That's an even more used trend I hope they don't continue.

Yeah, I first thought Morrowind to be bigger, but it seems true, Oblivion is larger. Thing is, more than half the map has nothing but ruins and dungeons, maybe that's why I thought Morrowind to be bigger, there were actually cities and such, and not as much as wasted landmass and you actually got to get off the main roads and citites for quests unlike Oblivion that I do so for the landscapes and exploration. Because really, in a huge map like this, you only have a handful of cities, the rest, the vast majority, being pure wilderness with nothing to see. I think they missed an opportunity here.

[Lavender Brown]

Yeah, I first thought Morrowind to be bigger, but it seems true, Oblivion is larger. Thing is, more than half the map has nothing but ruins and dungeons, maybe that's why I thought Morrowind to be bigger, there were actually cities and such, and not as much as wasted landmass and you actually got to get off the main roads and citites for quests unlike Oblivion that I do so for the landscapes and exploration. Because really, in a huge map like this, you only have a handful of cities, the rest, the vast majority, being pure wilderness with nothing to see. I think they missed an opportunity here.

Same here. Morrowind's map was masterfully created in such a way that it effectively immersed the player into perceiving the world as much bigger than it really was. The distant fog effect really helped as well.

[Jose ordaz]

The way I see it there's only 6 things that can happen regarding these trademarks:

1. Bethesda announces the game before the first trademark expires, and somehow fulfills the requirements of it being used in commerce without actually releasing it.

2. Bethesda files for a new trademark before these expire, but the trademark is for another name. Unlikely because of the fact that they renewed a Skyrim trademark as early as March.

3. Bethesda files for a new trademark after these expire, and the trademark is for a new name. Unlikely because it doesn't make much sense to register it in the future when they could just do it now.

4. Bethesda lets these expire with the intention of using another trademark for the game. Unlikely because, imo, none of their other names really fit, and because Skyrim is the only one they have 3 trademarks for.

5. Bethesda, for some reason, lets these expire and is forced to wait anywhere from a few months to a year to get a new Skyrim trademark. Left with no hope of an announcement for months, the people who regularly post in this thread slowly go insane.

6. Bethesda lets the trademark expire and announces the game as The Elder Scrolls V, and adds Skyrim to the title when they get a new trademark.

Am I missing any other possibilities?

Oh, and I made a calendar showing all the important dates coming up http://i48.tinypic.com/2jezm7n.jpg. Not much time left...

And I made a new, updated timeline that's more accurate than my last one. Check it out http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1795/timeline11.png.

Edit: Added Stain's idea

[Klaire]

The way I see it there's only 5 things that can happen regarding these trademarks:

1. Bethesda announces the game before the first trademark expires, and somehow fulfills the requirements of it being used in commerce without actually releasing it.

I'm voting for this option. It would be nice by now to have someone here with inside info as to how that could be done. There has to be some way they don't lose their trademark and still manage not to announce it. I can't imagine this whole trademark-issue being the limiting factor here.

2. Bethesda files for a new trademark before these expire, but the trademark is for another name. Unlikely because of the fact that they renewed a Skyrim trademark as early as March.

Which is why my latest favourite site is that of the trademark office....

3. Bethesda files for a new trademark after these expire, and the trademark is for a new name. Unlikely because it doesn't make much sense to register it in the future when they could just do it now.

Imo highly unlikely, because that would be a very costly business, although the income of TES V would cover that nicely of course :hubbahubba:

4. Bethesda lets these expire with the intention of using another trademark for the game. Unlikely because, imo, none of their other names really fit, and because Skyrim is the only one they have 3 trademarks for.

Not so much worried about the name, because "Oblivion" wasn't province-related either. I do agree that it doesn't make sense to have the merchandising trademark as well as the booklet trademark for a game we'll not see for some time to come.

5. Bethesda, for some reason, lets these expire and is forced to wait anywhere from a few months to a year to get a new Skyrim trademark. Left with no hope of an announcement for months, the people who regularly post in this thread slowly go insane.

THE HORROR !!!!!! oo:

[Mrs. Patton]

I may have found a way they can extend the trademark extension!!!

According to http://www.uspto.gov/teas/petinfo.htm they will get a "Notice of Abandonement" at the end of their last extension. They then have an extra 2 months to file a "Petition to Revive" not to lose their registration of that trademark. And it's not even that expensive!!! $100 per application.

That seems to be their last resort however.

EDIT: Of course I was too quick with posting this.... :facepalm:
I didn't read the fineprint: "Advisory: Filing a petition to revive an abandoned application does not stay or suspend the time for filing an SOU. During the pendency of the petition, you should file an SOU or any further extension requests that come due. Also, a petition will not be granted if it results in an SOU being filed more than 36 months after the issuance date of the NOA."...

So the extension will only last the few days they have between the ending of extension 5 and the 36 months deadline after the NOA....
So for the Merchandise Trademark that would be from the 27th of July untill the 29th of July (36 months deadline).

Which in turn is a good thing, because then we may not have to wait that long anymore.

Sorry to get everybody's hopes up...

[Myles]

snip

What about my suggestion that they could announce the game anyway and simply call it The Elder Scrolls V and leave out the title until they're able to reapply a new trademark?

[alicia hillier]

What about my suggestion that they could announce the game anyway and simply call it The Elder Scrolls V and leave out the title until they're able to reapply a new trademark?

Oh yeah, that's possible too.

[Neil]

Oh yeah, that's possible too.

But why announce anything at all at that point? Might as well keep quiet until you have another trademark in the wings...

[Tha King o Geekz]

How tough would it be for one of use to do the paperwork to apply for the same trademark? Is it kinda regular stuff we can find, or do we need a lawyer who specializes? I say if they slip, we try to pick it up so they'll be forced to push it through.

[Sunnii Bebiieh]

But why announce anything at all at that point? Might as well keep quiet until you have another trademark in the wings...

Because they want to be...nice? :shrug:

How tough would it be for one of use to do the paperwork to apply for the same trademark? Is it kinda regular stuff we can find, or do we need a lawyer who specializes? I say if they slip, we try to pick it up so they'll be forced to push it through.

It's probably something that could be done on your own, but all I have to say to that strategy is this: Good luck with the lawsuit!

[Andrew]

It's probably something that could be done on your own, but all I have to say to that strategy is this: Good luck with the lawsuit!

Lawsuit for what? Picking up an unused trademark? They're more likely to fire their attorney for letting it slide, and then buy the trademark off me for a free copy of the game.

[Ross]

Lawsuit for what? Picking up an unused trademark? They're more likely to fire their attorney for letting it slide, and then buy the trademark off me for a free copy of the game.

http://www.insidecounsel.com/Issues/2010/May-2010/Pages/Trademark-Squatting-On-the-Rise-in-US.aspx

[Life long Observer]

Lawsuit for what? Picking up an unused trademark? They're more likely to fire their attorney for letting it slide, and then buy the trademark off me for a free copy of the game.

Letting it slide? There's nothing the poor lawyer can do at this point because they've run out of extensions. Their hands are tied. If any blame is to be leveraged, it should go against the suits who determined to apply for the trademark when they did.

I am assuming you have no real bonifide intention of developing your own game called "Skyrim", in which case you should expect to be tied up in litigation as Zenimax would surely file complaints and hold hearings once your application was published for opposition. So while you may have a legitimate case, Zenimax could still sue you and bury you in lawyer costs.

EDIT: Antibody ninja-ed the link I was searching for... :brokencomputer:

[Laura Cartwright]

Haven't ventured into these threads in a while.
Sad to say, still talking about the exact same things with no new information. Unfortunate.
Is there any news about Quakecon? E3?

[Kill Bill]

Haven't ventured into these threads in a while.
Sad to say, still talking about the exact same things with no new information. Unfortunate.
Is there any news about Quakecon? E3?

For a while the conversation had stalled, except for some off-topic stuff, but you just caught the tale-end of a reemergence of the trademark stuff. I'm satisfied at this point to wait and see what happens in the next several weeks.

[Horror- Puppe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70iNkQA8YU4&feature=related

[Leah]

I'm thinking pre-orders and such. Remember, the first group to purchase it are actually gaming retail stores like Gamestop and not individual consumers, which means that some copies at least of the game will be bought and likely paid for as soon as it is announced by corporations. Perhaps that is how the Use in Commerce thing works with an announcement?

[Casey]

I'm thinking pre-orders and such. Remember, the first group to purchase it are actually gaming retail stores like Gamestop and not individual consumers, which means that some copies at least of the game will be bought and likely paid for as soon as it is announced by corporations. Perhaps that is how the Use in Commerce thing works with an announcement?

That seems to be the best positive theory at the present. Although, if it were so easy, it makes me wonder why we haven't been able to find any other games that were registered upon announcement rather than every game being registered after its release. We'll just have to wait in hope and see what transpires.

[Kristina Campbell]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/Mikeandike1/V.jpgr for http://twitter.com/elderscrolls5

I registered nearly every Elderscrolls url I can think of. So ill be keeping an eye on the ones i don't have, or an email from the ones I do have, if they decide they need one, for some reason.

And thats not even my secret heads up information! :hehe: