um, wow, no offense guys, but i think some of you fail at reading comprehension. most of the recent posts in the storyboard novel thread are actually saying that the novel is OK in terms of lore (which is all we really care about). not too hot on some of the particulars, but the consensus is that the novel aint horrible. And ive not seen any of this "utter crap" stuff either, just "it doesnt mesh with what i think is tamriel, which is primarily conveyed through MK"

speaking of decently moderated forums, interforum comments are not allowed

it's a pity because then MKs stuff gets tainted by fanbase, and the fanbase gets tainted by the overly-noisy minority. If you want an example of reasonable fandom, see below.


Yeah, so this is the part where we shut up about the other forum for a while, and go on about this:

It's interesting the hints Keyes dropped about Attrebus being a fraud before the actual reveal. Like him blocking with the flat of the sword, his total airheadedness during the ambush, and the fact that he has a named attack that he just "uses." Durp.

Then you have the reveal, cue character development.

Just from general laws of ecosystems, you can pretty much bet that the Silt-Striders went extinct, and probably the Netches as well--the biggest animals always die out in massive extinction-causing events. And if a volcano exploding a huge island, and causing the surrounding sea to boil for 40 years straight years isn't enough to cause a mass-extinction event, then I don't know what is.

We need to drop discussion of other forums and what is going on there please.
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=724862

Yes indeed.

Now, what puzzles me is why "Treb" was set up to believe that he was All That to begin with. I'd think that, at least in the interests of preserving the budding dynasty, the Emperor would want his heir to have a realistic understanding of his skills, strengths, and weaknesses. Instead we find out that the conning of Attrebus has been going on since he was at least ten years old. I can see courtiers wanting to flatter the future Emperor, but this particular setup rivals the Truman Show. How has it been going on with everyone's full knowledge and connivance, presumably including his *parents*, and WHY?

I'd think it'd be more likely for Titus Mede to complain about how he had to work himself up to Emperor from nothing, and kids these days want everything handed to them on a platter. Instead, Attrebus is getting the platter handed to him *and* an official commendation telling him how nice it was that he worked so hard to get it.

That's a good point, especially since the Titus Mede we're shown is no fool. I don't understand either why he would want an heir that's LESS competent than he. Unless this is like the Buddha, who as Prince Gautama was completely sheltered from life's realities by his father. Attrebus isn't headed for the religious or philosophical life, though; he'll either end up as Emperor someday, or remain an adventurer.

Come to think of it, he doesn't have siblings, does he? If he's the only heir, than you'd think Titus would be trying to make him the best possible future emperor, not handicap him. Kind of a mystery.

Since I haven't read the book; is Attrebus actually competent?
Can't have an emperor sitting on such a precarious throne appear like an incompetent weakling. Titus Mede may figure that the skill to run his fledgling empire can come from many people, but the authority to keep it together can come from only one

At least part of it wouldn't have been for Attrebus at all. By doing this, the Emperor built up Attrebus' legend with his future subjects, making them respect and love him (as seen in a few places in the books). Doing this also permitted Attrebus to live out his hero fantasies from a position of relative safety.

When Attrebus knows what to do, he has quite the silver tongue. If given more real life experience and training, he could shape up to be a pretty good emperor. In fact, being kidnapped and traveling with Sul is probably the best thing that's happened to him.

That's what Mirander said, the Emperor wants his son to be a legend among the common folk and it is working as people adore him. Even Annaig that's smarter than your average peasant idolizes him.

Yeah, but she doesn't know he's a total fraud.

I certainly don't understand why Titus Mede wants his son to be a fraud. Granted, he's adored by everybody, which is a key part of being Emperor, but the charade was sure to break down after Titus, you know, dies, and Attrebus inherits. You can't keep the Emperor from doing what he wants, and if he wants to go kill a vast army, you, you know, have to let him. And then his head is split like a ripe melon, everyone realizes he's a fraud, and what little ground the Imperials have made collapses into dust, like Morrowind.

How many emperors lead an army into battle? Titus probably made his son a "legend" so he could rule easily from the throne and everyone would love him and never second-guess him.

There seems to be evidence that Titus himself is a fraud--although, that may only be in Attrebus' eyes. He makes mention that his father surrounds himself with "yes men."

Which gets me thinking--is it actually better to be a fraud when you are Emperor? You want to keep the legend alive, and instill fear in your enemies. As long as you have intelligent and pragmatic advisors, image may be all that matters. And that may be what Titus himself thrives on--image.

In my view, the Emperor wouldn't even use the Legions every time he wants to have a battle. He makes a reward system for the nobility, so if they assemble to help him when he makes his views known (not always public), they can live off the fat of the tribute for awhile. If he loses (Which if he thinks he might, he sends the legion), no problem. Call up some more nobles to fix it. If they win, he pays out according to their bravery or whatever out of the tribute treasury.

I don't think it's just that Titus wants the people to love Attrebus, he wants them to worship him, like they do with Tiber Septim and Reman.

The Empire would love him if Titus said Attrebus saved puppies from burning buildings and chased after pickpockets who stole from little old ladies. Instead, Titus makes his son out to be the stuff of legend.

What did Colin find of Attrebus' that perplexed him? I don't remember if the details were given by the poster, I recall someone mentioning Colin found a thing of his that surprised him to find.

His royal signet ring, on the finger of a corpse.

Attrebus also has a birthmark on his side, which was "too convenient"ly charred over on the corpse Colin finds, which leads him to believe the corpse is false evidence to misguide him and throw him off the trail. Colin's a smart guy.

Well, Titus won the throne by violence. Maybe he also wants Attrebus to believe he's some kind of mythic hero, because would a mythic hero kill his own father for power (actually, they would, did, and do. But Titus' prodigious acumen is more dedicated to battle and politics than mythology, it seems).


Like Sul said, he isn't inherently stupid. Just sheltered. From a literary standpoint, when a character learns he or she is absolutely nothing, they either languish and die or resolve to become something. Thankfully, Keyes had Attrebus go with the much more interesting choice B.


That he is, and I hope he gets more page-space in book 2, he seems to be the novel's "bad-ass normal" character. Actually, a lot of them have moments for it. Annaig is just a regular young woman from a random town, but she rises among the ranks in Umbriel. Glim shakes off his doldrums to learn as much as he can before trying to leave, And Attrebus has that awesome 'Just who [the hell] do you think I am?" moment. Sul kind of gets the bad-ass grandpa status because he starts off grizzled and powerful.

I have to get the book.

So far from what I heard, Morrowind gets destroyed. I don't like that... Everyone picks on Morrowind.

It could be that the Dunmer diaspora will go on to accomplish great things. I've been saying that the Dunmer have a number of similarities to the Jews who were occupied by the Romans; now another similarity, the destruction of their nation and a diaspora into the world. But this same diaspora means the Dunmer ingenuity will continue to be unleashed as they face the challenges of survival ahead of them -- both physical survival, and cultural. Just as they once had to ask themselves, "What does it mean to be Chimer and an exile", they now have to ask "What does it mean to be Dunmer without our ancient land?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora

Woah Woah Woah... that means Titus is a dictator... when he dies... this story is about to get good.

This is probably why he wants everyone to love his son Attrebus. if everyone is afraid of him, then when he dies you go back to the way things were. If everyone fears him but loves his son, even a rebellion may not necessarily remove his dynasty. Clever man, this Titus Mede.

Oh by the way, the Novels have a seperate http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheElderScrollsNovels from the games. Anyone here who likes to edit that do a run-through, eh (and it'd be nice if they were labeled on the trope pages, too, but it never lets me edit so I can't do it myeslf, particularly the deconstructed Warrior prince trope)? Gotta love the spoiler-tagged description for 'yeah I knew it."

Three things stood out in this book for me:

1) Colin's conversation with the dead woman. That was an example of really great dialogue. When she asked Colin to think of her when he next saw a willow tree... I genuinely felt emotional. Well done Keyes on this part!

2) Attrebus being a fraud. Like many people have already said, it was a pretty cool change from a standard cliche prince. I often found myself getting annoyed at the 'tedious character design' of Attrebus up to that point, wondering how people could take him seriously. Turns out they don't

My favourite Attrebus quote: "If you were a man, you'd be handsome." lolwut? Now I know Radhasa was just playing along with her reciprocative reply, but at the time I couldn't believe that with lines like that he was famous for being a smooth talker amongst girls. If you were a man... daedra and divines. Hilarious stuff.

3) Typos. Seriously. How did this book get published!? It's like no-one proof-read this thing. I counted 8 different typos, and that's ignoring that fact that he spelt Solstheim differently. Which brings me to my question: was there a reason Keyes spelt it as Soulstheim? Please don't tell me it was ignorance.

1: Agreed
2: On the TVTropes he is actually labeled as a deconstruction of the warrior prince trope. As for the line, it only does make any sort of sense when you know he's a fraud and she's fixing to betray him, eh?
3: I only noticed Soulstheim, which was confirmed to be a typo. Not saying there aren't others, but typos happen. I usually don't care even if I notice. I mostly just feel happy that that there were zero lore conflictions and that the story was great. very setting-intensive, which I absolutely love.

I did not notice any other typos other than Soulstheim.