I noticed that quite a bit of lore described in the book involved factions. I was quite excited by reading about the College of Whispers & Synod replacing the Mages Guild, and the whole thing with the Blades. I wonder if the Fighters Guild is still doing alright.

Considering the Fighters Guild received funding and backing from the Empire, it's probably decimated just like the Mages Guild. Though it likely lives on in rudimentary concept via countless mercenaries, working solo or clumped together in groups. Not that mercenaries adhere to a universal standard of ethics like the FG.

The Mage's Guild and the Blades were the only ones specifically mentioned (well, the Blades were more implied, by the lack of their spy network in service to the emperor). However, it's a fair bet that any guild that was officially sponsored by the Empire (or, for that matter, any guild sponsored by the Morrowind government) was either dissolved, or went through a great deal of upheaval.

The thing is, the Blades have been without heads before. trust me, if the Medes manage to unify Tamriel then they may well start coming out of the woodwork (namely, monasteries) and joining up. Remember, the Blades aren't exactly common knowledge, at least not anything behind their public face as the Emperor's Royal Guard. I smell a merger, and Mergers are messy sometimes.

Also, things like the dark brotherhood and Morag Tong have survived worse crises.

Know what'd be great? if some dev or another posted in-character a letter to some Imperial office with the names and descriptions of all active factions.

If that happened, I would forget all about Christmas.

Maybe someone'll do it as a Christmas gift to the fandom (HINT HINT!)

Anyhow, I just cleaned out my PM folder so I feel cyber-clean. Come on, though, let's keep overanolyzing to try and find the most complete possible setting! Let's not lose steam now!

if it happened, it would probably happen at christmas. we've gotten presents before.

Attrebus makes me lol, i thoroughly enjoy him for it. Colin was really interesting in the beginning, but im not a big fan of the "lone upholder of the good must find out huge, horrible secret and save the world" deal that seems to be developing. Glim was fun in his own POVs, not so much in Annaig's. Annaig was meh at best and "damn it woman get your tropes strait" at worst. though the epilogue gives me some hope.

for some strange reason, it seemed like i had heard most these names before. it was like a weird sort of dejavu thing

I don't think he'll save the world, that duty goes to Annaig, Glim, Sul and maybe Attrebus. He may save The Mede Empire, though. As for the rest, I think every character has merits on one hand and problems on the other, as it should be. Annaig does spend a little too much time either too facinated by Alchemy to really help anything or too busy fantasizing about Attrebus, but she looks to be getting her [censored] together. Glim is fun because he is a random passer-by, the "average man" who just wants to live a peaceful, safe life but is caught up in a all-too-real playout of their friends heroic fantasies. Sul is all determinator, but he's only a few words away from a total breakdown (in a good, in-character type of way, of course), and Attrebus, well I could go on for a while about why he's a good character because of how bad he is.

Well, there's a moderator on these boards named Attrebus. Annaig is just a name used in *mumbles* cultures. Collin... well if you know an Irish family, you most likely know a Collin. Radhassa seems close to Rosan or Rasheda (two female redguard smiths in Oblivion). Mere-Glim somewhat reminds me of the fin-gleem helm from Oblivion (in pronunciation only). Sul... Arden-Sul? Vuhon... I have no idea. The rest seem to be standard racial names. (Titus Mede just sounds [censored], but it's no Gustavus Adolphus [best name ever])

I didnt like coo. its too modern, to walky-talky, mobile phoney. i prefer the couriers on horse back, or even a bird that sent written notes. If that magic existed (coo) then whichever mage made it, should be a Septimaire, Tidisaire? (billionaire?) by now, with mass production.

It was not said in the book but my guess is that Coo is a Dwemeri artifact. It would be nice to know more.

i meant "world" loosely. either way, he is still uncovering a vast conspiracy from the inside, and finding out that he appears to be the only decent person left. only smart person, too. i suppose it depends on how its handled, i enjoyed most of what little action he got, but the end just had me dreading what sort of cliche he could become.

What bothered me with Annaig (and I go at length about this in my forthcoming chapter-by-chapter) is that what she is supposed to be and what she is often contracticts itself, especially in the early chapters. She is presented to us as an action girl, independent, charismatic and able to influence others. a natural leader, though reckless. However, she isnt this beyond the first chapter. All of her decisions are very minor and in the end inconsequential, whenever she is involved in something that actually matters she is completely helpless (crying or throwing up, usually) and lets herself be carried by the situation. Now, it could be argued that its all valid characterization, i didnt get that it was on purpose, if it was. it struct me as a difference between what she was intended to be (strong female lead who has the potential to save the world) and what she really is (weak female 'lead' quite enjoying her time on umbiel and still needing to be saved).

many of what i perceived to be problems could have been handled by giving the book more pages. most of it is action, with little transition between. when we do get normal, rather purposeless conversation or description it almost feels awkward due to the way the rest of the book is packed. relationships between the characters (attrebus and his guard, glim and annaig, attrebus and sul, etc.) needed a whole lot more to be believable. I didnt feel sorry for black marsh or angry at vuhon or anything, because we were never really given enough information to develop relationships with the characters and the setting. we dislike umbriel simply because we are told to dislike death, not because we cared for anyone or anything that was killed. Annaig and Glim are much of the same: they go through the motions, but I do not see the actual character motivations behind them.

[edit] over all, i did like the book. it wasnt the best fantasy i've ever read, but it wasnt horrible either.

Sul pretty much did say it was dwemer, and built from dwemer metal

Did any one else get the feeling of the japanese animation "Spirited Away" as soon as Annaig hit the kitchens? Maybe even b4 then, when she started flying off up to Umbriel?

I can see where you're coming from, but it looks like this is Mileage May Vary. I do agree with your assessment of Annaig, but I tend to think that was deliberate (After all, her hometown was just killed off en masse, I don't think most people would be able to keep up an action character facade realistically.

I think if I didn't like the various settings so much from the games (one of the things people tend to mention as either a good or bad thing is that it really has no introductions for someone who doesn't already know the series) I would agree with your talk about disliking Umbriel, but actually, are we even supposed to? I think we as readers are being led to dislike Vuhon, but Umbriel itself is just a chunk of a Daedric Realm, led by a chunk of a Daedric Prince. IDK, different interpretations is why I love this kind of stuff.

to the contrary, someone who seeks adventure would go and try to save lilmoth, black marsh, etc. she puts up the apperance of doing so, claiming she is gathering information, but really it looks like she is enjoying herself. or at the very least she doesnt mind. we dont see her thinking about how to sabotage the opperation (as glim started doing), about how any of it really works, who rules the place, etc. Instead of taking the lead and being active, as she did in the first chapter and was indicated as her character, she instead relies on Attrebus to save them. She goes from action girl to damsel in distress in the 2nd chapter.


I take it we are supposed to sympathize with Annaig and et al, so yes, umbriel (the city, not necessarily its inhabitants) are an antagonist. Annaig et al are trying to stop Umbriel from necromancing more people, but minimal emotional connection is shown. As i've said before, both Glim and Annaig seem to be enjoying their stay on Umbriel, and when they try to escape or do something to bring it down it feels like its because they have to (as we know we have to report a crime) not because they are invested in it.

I would agree. I think Annaig wasn't really ever "supposed to be" the strong female lead (just as Attrebus wasn't really the strong male lead) she was merely playing the part initially because that's how she saw herself. When she actually got involved in something real she quickly found herself out of her depth and panicked. It's pretty clear from the early text that this was the case all along. She gets involved in petty "adventures" that usually come close to getting them killed because neither of them know what they are doing; further evidence is her paltry excuse for a flying potion at the beginning: she's an amateur. It's only after she gives up on that and really buckles down in the kitchens that she starts to find her strength. Even after that though she still ends up fleeing, yet again, with Glim. Strong female lead? All evidence points to the contrary; for now she's just a wannabe.

I liked Umbriel as a setting because I reserved judgment as to what purpose it served. Are we supposed to dislike it? I dislike what it's doing to the people of the land but I don't see the occupants as anything so simple as "villains" necessarily. That's far too black and white when I suspect this will end up with more shades of gray. The same goes for how the relationships were shaping up. We only saw the tip of the iceberg here. More pages will be nice, because I suspect that's why there's a second book coming.

I really didn't like it as a setting because it took the lore, looked at it, and just laughed. There was a lot of potential "epicness", it just didn't capitalize on it, unfortunately.

I don't really see how it's laughing at the lore...? It's a bubble of Oblivion powered by the ingenium, which considering the source here, seems like as reasonable a direction to take the landfall concept as any. :shrug:

despite her amatureness, she still insists on acting like she is in control and helping the situation. she remarks once in a while about learning things to help attrebus, etc. to me it looks like she is still being shown as someone who takes action, by talking to attrebus, or learning things about umbriel. but really thats all just passive. even before she got to umbriel (i didnt see any panic either btw, it was more like surprise and even wonder) she was being carried by the tides instead of swimming against them. notice the whole ship sequence. her being an ammatuer really doesnt prevent her from being an action girl.

Neither do i see any evidence of her gaining strength. Glim certainly has, he is the one acting now. Annaig simply does what she must. Just like Toel remarked, she has no drive. She plays at making a difference, pretends that its all an adventure and that they are going to save the world. The author does not do much to emphasize or even recognize it, so it makes me question whether it was an intended character trait. the epilogue is promising, so it remains to be seen whether she gets better in the 2nd book.


a large part of my point was that this book needed more pages because we didnt get a clear sense of the characters, the plot, their interactions, and all the other good stuff that makes a solid story. the tip of the iceberg doesnt make me care about these people or their land. right now i dont give a boop about what happens to Annaig or Sul or Colin, my feelings for Attrebus and Glim are more along the lines of interest than of actual worry for their fates. Neither am i driven to try and predict future events - we were simply not given enough information to do so.

I agree with you here, my only point of contention is I don't think the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor. It is what it is and I'm going to assume everything was intended. And you're right. She's playing at being in control but she's not; she even admits as much in the epilogue. She has no drive, and her self-perception doesn't match with the reality of her character. As I said before, she's a wannabe hero with delusions of grandeur. I think her development will be interesting because I think it's a neat basis for a character. I'd find her character far less interesting if she really was a "woman of action" just because it's been done to death. For Annaig becoming strong however, I think the evidence is there, or the groundwork has been laid at least. Her newly-gained filet knife, for example, could be seen as a literal example of her realization of power - it only springs forth for her when she really gets serious, not when she's playing at being serious. Also her ability to excel in the kitchens when previously she was only able to make barely functional potions.

I completely agree with you about Glim; he's turning out to be a far more interesting character than I had initially thought. Attrebus, for me, less so. I think I'd almost would have preferred him as a stronger male lead from the start, like Sul, but that's probably just my typical narrative prejudices showing.

Finally, I don't think I'll consider this a standalone novel as it is written. Really, I think we should consider this and the sequel to be the complete novel. This is merely part 1 of 2 and I'm going to withhold judgment until I have the whole text.

He also spelled Artaeum and Merethic wrong - he left one of the vowels out of Artaeum and he spelled Merethic as Merithic.

My thoughts, exactly. The Infernal City was very Miyazaki-esque, in my opinion.

Ah, indeed, I remember it now.

Not many errors, but they could have been all nailed by a more attentive editor. It escaped me as I read too fast, dammit...

Probably 70% of novel's I've read contain errors. Either a typo at the authoring phase, or a foul-up at the presses. Either way, it's hardly an indication of "low standards". It simply happens. I've seen typos in stuff I've done that has lived through five years, several substantial revisions, and about 15 proof-readers over 20 passes. Granted, those aren't professionals, but still... why does it get caught the 21st time and not the 3rd?