Spokes cannot be diameter running members.

Of course they can.

Show me.

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/song-chart-memes-probability-pizza.jpg

Victory treat tastes sweet. Thankyou.

Somewhat like pizza I imagine if you clicked his face.


Anyway, its only natural that the spokes would intersect and pass through each other to cross the entire diameter given that the hub (Mundus) is comprised of their gift-limbs - the hub is the combination of the spoke (plus Lorkhan), so the spokes must mingle. Besides, nothing says that the spokes are straight...

Slices aren't spokes, and it doesn't have a hub.

Nothing says the spokes are straight, nothing says the wheel is round, nothing says that 8 isn't code for 3.14159265, but this is more a matter of what you'll stick in your ear to accept just because you want to.

The pizza diagram was more to demonstrate lines going the diameter of the circle, just make the lines solid and keep in mind that having them cross is the point.

The definition of a wheel says that its round, the definition of a spoke doesn't say its straight. It is a necessary quality of a wheel that it is round - a spoke however just needs to fulfill a purpose to be a spoke, there are no necessary qualities beyond that.

So... if the wheel isn't round... then it isn't a wheel. ...

And if a spoke runs the diameter it isn't a spoke. It's all based on twisting the word till it means what you want it to. I don't like it. Don't get me wrong, I don't actually care. I feel like I'm arguing with someone over the internet here...

But the definition of spoke does mean it connects the rim to the hub as a radius and not a diameter.

Then again, there are oval wheels.

Sixteen Daedra?

Actually, you forgot about Poland. I mean Jyggalag.

That's only one variant of the definition, and likely the strictest of possibilities. We're not that pedantic, especially when it makes metaphysical sense to not be.

Going back to Vuhon's plan, while we already determined destroying the Tower isn't the plan, I don't think he wants to make Umbriel a part of Mundus. The main lines are the parts about coming to like this world he created and about how if he set down on Tamriel mortal servants of Vile could find and assassinate him. I think he wants to keep Umbriel in Oblivion, but as an autonomous realm of its own.

He also said that Umbriel wasn't completely self-sufficient. Maybe the Tower can somehow help make it that way?

I don't have the book nearby for reference, but I don't remember the part about assassins of Clavicus Vile. I recall him mentioning somewhere that settling down was his goal.

I have the opposite. Like you, I don't have the book here, but if I remember, Attrebus suggested just setting down, Vuhon said he had considered that option but was concerned about assassins. The copy at my library is currently out, so if anyone in this thread has the book nearby, I'd appreciate the help of figuring this out.

I just checked and I don't think Vuhon's plan is as simple as just settling down in Mundus. But judging by what he's said the larger scope will make him impervious to any attempts by Vile to thwart him. Treb suggested he just set the thing down, after Vuhon mentioned that Mundus was the place that Vile's sphere of influence was obviously weakest. But Vile's influence isn't completely gone of course, as anyone can apparently fly right into Umbriel from Mundus. This is what Treb fails to realize, and Vuhon simply points it out.

Whatever Vuhon's plan is, though, it involves removing Vile's sphere of influence from Mundus some how so that he can't harm Umbriel. Whether that involves planting Umbriel into Mundus, I don't know.

Also, jeez. What a cliffhanger ending.

I honestly wish we got the whole book, not just the first part (Before anyone says anything, that's not an insult, I like the cliffhanger as a literary device, but I'm gonna explain outside of the parentheses) because, since I'm in the middle of an individual story, I don't feel up to playing Morrowind or Oblivion right now. Once the second book comes out, I plan on reading that, then playing both games and reading both books sequentially.

But also I wish the first book was at least in. Someone else still has it from my library. Dammit.

Any news or rumors about the next book coming out and when?

Also, if anyone didn't know, you can download kindle for desktop for free. Then buy "infernal city" kindle version for only like 9 bucks on amazon and have it right there to read on your desktop in a matter of 30 seconds. You don't need an actual kindle. I read the whole thing, kindle edition, between my iPhone and my PC and let me just say about reading this book on your desktop: it is great to do it and have a map of tamriel open next to it and another window with TES wiki or imperial library open for immediate lore/word reference.

Anyway, whens the next one coming?!!

EDIT: BTW, hello again to any familiar faces (Shades, you sound familiar). I don't think I've been on these forums in two years! Infernal City brought me back!

Having reread it, Vohun still states his goal as becoming fully part of Mundus and 'bringing Umbriel to rest somewhere' after reaching the White-Gold Tower, at which point he also says that the dying will stop, presumably because since it will be coming to rest he will no longer need souls to keep it afloat. He doesn't mention how he will counteract any assassin Vile might send, but he does explicitly state that his goal is to set it down somewhere (I assume that he means on Mundus, since he implies that it is eventually going to become fully part of Mundus, but this part can't be said for sure).

Huh, I must have misread. In any event, I want to read it again, so I'll check to see if we have it back later today.

well, I finally got a copy from the library. I plan on rereading it ASAP and will double-check all these parts, even give quotes and stuff!

Still no info on book two, that I know of.

I hope you enjoy it. It's not as bad as some people make it out to be. I'm not in the target audience, but I thought it was an okay read, in and of itself.

Oh, I've read it before. I mean more along the lines of me and Luagar's facinating debate about Vuhon's plan, above. I think Luagar knows what he's talking about, but I'm still not wholly convinced.

Just finished the book.

While some of the new lore is interesting, I found much of the book painful to read. I was really disappointed; I mean, I understand that there is much to the elder scrolls to be fleshed out, but things just turned flat out ridiculous at some points.