Official "The Infernal City": An Elder Scrolls Novel; : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:20 pm

Just thought of something about Black Marsh again, i just recently read "The Argonian Account" and seen just how much the empires influence pretty much screwed up Black Marsh in the past. Now i didn't read the book, i just pretty much participate on info here in the thread, so i don't know which towns on Black Marsh have been destroyed. However if these have been imperial towns or at least mainly build on imperial model wouldn't this actually be somehow good for Black Marsh as their influence is now gone and they can return more to their traditional ways?

I know all the people dieing isn't a good thing but from reading the argonian account i got the impression that Black Marsh is off a lot better without outside influence and just lives on it's own.
Though seeing as ore extremist groups started to form this might also be a bad development.

EDIT: I just thought of one thing, after the destruction of Vvradenfell wouldn't the (already high) prices for Dwemer, Glass and Ebondy equipment skyrocket now? While Ebony and Glass can come form other sources and there are Dwemer artifacts outside of Morrowind (even thoug much rarer) Vvradenfell was as i recall it the main source for these materials.
Now that Vvradenfell is in ruins and the mines for it are probably either destroyed or inacessible delieveries must have drastically reduced.

From the sound of things, Black Marsh was already more or less free of Imperial influence before Umbriel arrived. The Al Xileel (spelling - don't have the book on hand for reference) organized the Argonians during the Oblivion crisis, booted out the Imperials, and then fell upon the already beaten carcass of Morrowind. Extremist or no, its nice to see a party in power in Black Marsh that is by the Argonians, for the Argonians. Assuming Umbriel didn't destroy too much of Black Marsh, its starting to look like the Argonians are on the rise in Tamriel.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Apparently the An-Xileel are pretty radical, as it seems they used the emergence of Umbriel as a mean to get rid of the ones they saw as "assimilated" and foreigners.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:26 pm

Apparently the An-Xileel are pretty radical, as it seems they used the emergence of Umbriel as a mean to get rid of the ones they saw as "assimilated" and foreigners.

An-Xileel. Thanks.

The price for underestimating the Argonian's ability to mobilize as a people is a great one, indeed.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:08 pm

An-Xileel. Thanks.

The price for underestimating the Argonian's ability to mobilize as a people is a great one, indeed.

I've liked the Argonians ever since I began playing TES games with "Morrowind". But it's kind of a shame that we're seeing something I suspected would happen with the Empire's fall: ethnic cleansing, between the Argonians, the Aldmer, and to a lesser degree the Khajiit. Probably the other provinces too.

Something no one's mentioned, I think, is Orsinium. I wonder which faction prevailed, between Gortwog's attempt to revive the worship of Trinimac, and the traditionalists. Gortwog is probably long gone, but I respected him after reading Ted Peterson's interpretation of him during the Lore RP.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:00 pm

I've liked the Argonians ever since I began playing TES games with "Morrowind". But it's kind of a shame that we're seeing something I suspected would happen with the Empire's fall: ethnic cleansing, between the Argonians, the Aldmer, and to a lesser degree the Khajiit. Probably the other provinces too.

Something no one's mentioned, I think, is Orsinium. I wonder which faction prevailed, between Gortwog's attempt to revive the worship of Trinimac, and the traditionalists. Gortwog is probably long gone, but I respected him after reading Ted Peterson's interpretation of him during the Lore RP.

In times of trouble, people stick with what they know. I expect to see a return to traditional values in Orsinium.

It's a shame that there were a total of 3 Orcs in the entire book, with 2 of them being murdered and none of them being consequential.

(The guard that helped Annaig's dad restain her, one of Attrebus's kidnappers who was killed by Sul, and the she-Orc who was stabbed in the eye by assassins...if anyone can think of more, be my guest)

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:21 pm

But it's kind of a shame that we're seeing something I suspected would happen with the Empire's fall: ethnic cleansing, between the Argonians, the Aldmer, and to a lesser degree the Khajiit. Probably the other provinces too.

heh, that's interesting as I WELCOME the polarizing of the races. That's something that's been bothering me in the trend of the games is the homogenizing of the races (not their lore but their playstyle) I found that playing one race wasn't much different than playing another once you get a few levels in. I'd like it to FEEL drastically different if I play a Khajiit one time, then a Nord the next. ...and PLEASE give me some Nord Thu'um action! (one can always hope...

)

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:39 pm

An-Xileel. Thanks.

The price for underestimating the Argonian's ability to mobilize as a people is a great one, indeed.

You are welcome, one of the things I found more interesting in the first chapters of the novel is the tidbits of the Argonian language we got and that even Annaig that was raised talking it was not able to fully grasp it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:00 pm

Well there might be a "ethnic clensing" going on in a lot of places but it will still be quite a stretch of time till the new game, maybe enough for them to come back together again.
It could very well be that the banner of the Empire will fall and they will reunite not forcefully but actually peacfully as they WANT to come together.

All in all, yea i'm too glad the Argonians show some badassery instead of just being seen as the "backwards, awkward, primitive lizard things".

Hmm i just thought of one thing, it is said that the Oblivion crisis pretty much exclusively hit Tamriel, however did it also hit other continents? It woudl be interesting to know that, we haven't heard from Akavir or any other exisiting ones really so we can't know if they have been under attack as well and how it changed them.
I know this proably isn't mentioned in the book or won't be a point in the second one but i'm still interested if they had to deal with the invasion as well. After all in Tamriel it brought the empire to near fall, what did it do to the rest of the world?

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:17 pm

Yeah, but seeing with how much enthusiasm Keyes has embraced the TES universe I wouldn't be suprised if he somehow involved Akivir, Pyanodea,.....and MAYBE a li'l Thrass

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:02 pm

Yeah...um! The novel was gay! At the very least, it gave me inspiration to write my own personal fan fic and it's going to involve the painful eradication of the lizard-snakes.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:08 pm

Two questions:
Do the An-Xileel rule all of Black Marsh? I got the impression that they were only local to Lilmoth.

Didn't Martin's sacrifice make it impossible for Oblivion to be reached from Tamriel? Or was it just that the Daedra couldn't get to Tamriel but people of Tamriel can get to Oblivion?

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:24 pm

Two questions:
Do the An-Xileel rule all of Black Marsh? I got the impression that they were only local to Lilmoth.

Didn't Martin's sacrifice make it impossible for Oblivion to be reached from Tamriel? Or was it just that the Daedra couldn't get to Tamriel but people of Tamriel can get to Oblivion?

Well seeing as there still was the stable gate to the shivering isles it seems like the connection as not cut but it seems like it just got a lot harder to establish it. After all before all this Daedra could already come to Nirn but never had stable gates to do so.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:23 am

Two questions:
Do the An-Xileel rule all of Black Marsh? I got the impression that they were only local to Lilmoth.

Didn't Martin's sacrifice make it impossible for Oblivion to be reached from Tamriel? Or was it just that the Daedra couldn't get to Tamriel but people of Tamriel can get to Oblivion?

There are always loopholes even when there are no loops.

Umbriel is still in Oblivion. A floating chunk of Oblivion's space, that's why Annaig and Glim couldn't leave when they made the flying potion. They were a part of Umbriel now, and therefore a part of Oblivion. Not only that, but a part of Oblivion with a particularly thick barrier.

@jfarris: Don't do that. Go look on TVtropes, fix fics are considered one of the lowest forms of Fan Dumb! And anyway, so what? so Morrowind got blowed up, just like the lore already said it would have.
If it had happened in a game and not the book would you still be pissed? either way, we already knew it would happen and I'm personally glad that's all that got destroyed.

Hell, I'm talking in tropes today.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:49 pm

either way, we already knew it would happen and I'm personally glad that's all that got destroyed.

And now we can finally leave Morrowind and see the rest of the damn world! Look on the bright side guys, everywhere else just got x1000 more interesting. Morrowind may have been the world to you (har!), but it's time to stretch out those twigs underneath what are known as legs, and walk around the world.

The book has been doing a lot of justice to the series, and I can't wait to get my hands on the second book!

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:55 pm

And now we can finally leave Morrowind and see the rest of the damn world! Look on the bright side guys, everywhere else just got x1000 more interesting. Morrowind may have been the world to you (har!), but it's time to stretch out those twigs underneath what are known as legs, and walk around the world.

The book has been doing a lot of justice to the series, and I can't wait to get my hands on the second book!

Can't agree more

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:24 pm

I really looked forward to reading these threads as soon as I finished the book, but now it's a bit disappointing. Mostly just people (a lot of which haven't even read the book) BAAAWing over Morrowind.

I think it makes perfect sense, and doesn't ruin anything. I always wanted the next game to feature a conflict between Black Marsh and Morrowind, but a book will do. Also, it seems like at this point the Black Marsh is just as destroyed as Morrowind, and yet not too many people seem upset over that. Poor lizard dudes... Sure, plenty escaped, but do we really know how many? I'm sure both Morrowind and BlackMarsh are going to be drastically changed once repopulation and the like begin.

Also, aside from minor complaints (Soulstheim?!) I was quite pleased with the Author's knowledge of lore. I was fully expecting a completely generic fantasy tale with random TES names and stuff tacked on in places. But no, I was completely sure the world I was reading about was the one I played in in all the games.

Umbra used the soul trap glitch.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:10 pm

And now we can finally leave Morrowind and see the rest of the damn world! Look on the bright side guys, everywhere else just got x1000 more interesting. Morrowind may have been the world to you (har!), but it's time to stretch out those twigs underneath what are known as legs, and walk around the world.

The book has been doing a lot of justice to the series, and I can't wait to get my hands on the second book!

Yeah because TES IV Cyrodiil was soooo interesting. :rolleyes:

Bethesda's 1-1 so far. Some heart and soul was put into the making of Morrowind and will always be a gem. Oblivion was a slapped together LOTR deal.

The turmoil in regards to the rise of Helseth's monarchy and the downfall of the Great Houses was more interesting than lobbing a big rock at Morrowind. That's not being creative. Loranna's Playing Houses RP was more interesting than this drivel.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:39 pm

Yeah because TES IV Cyrodiil was soooo interesting. :rolleyes:

Bethesda's 1-1 so far. Some heart and soul was put into the making of Morrowind and will always be a gem. Oblivion was a slapped together LOTR deal.

The turmoil in regards to the rise of Helseth's monarchy and the downfall of the Great Houses was more interesting than lobbing a big rock at Morrowind. That's not being creative. Loranna's Playing Houses RP was more interesting than this drivel.

I don't think Beth will make the same mistake in the next game. Morrowind was interesting because Dunmer architecture is so awesome, but Imperial architecture looks medieval and bland. In a way, it was a good thing, because it shows just how diverse Tamriel is. Hopefully Nordic architecture in Skyrim will be slightly more interesting, and not just Bruma copied and pasted all over the place.

On topic, I'm amazed at how much I want this book. I can't get it until christmas, which is when I'm getting Morrowind, and as silly as it sounds I don't know what to do first, read the book or play Morrowind.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:59 pm

Yeah because TES IV Cyrodiil was soooo interesting. :rolleyes:

Bethesda's 1-1 so far. Some heart and soul was put into the making of Morrowind and will always be a gem. Oblivion was a slapped together LOTR deal.

Yeah. 1-1. Seeing as how Bethesda's made only two games, apparently.

Oblivion wasn't as bad as you or most people make it out to be. it doesn't meet the standard Morrowind set, sure, but few things do. It's better in a lot of wasy as well.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:47 pm

I don't think Beth will make the same mistake in the next game. Morrowind was interesting because Dunmer architecture is so awesome, but Imperial architecture looks medieval and bland. In a way, it was a good thing, because it shows just how diverse Tamriel is. Hopefully Nordic architecture in Skyrim will be slightly more interesting, and not just Bruma copied and pasted all over the place.

On topic, I'm amazed at how much I want this book. I can't get it until christmas, which is when I'm getting Morrowind, and as silly as it sounds I don't know what to do first, read the book or play Morrowind.

I'm in the minority who aren't too enthusiastic about possibly seeing Skyrim in the next game, since we already saw Solstheim in "Bloodmoon". But if there's a TES V, I guess there will be a diversity of locations in Skyrim also.

I recommend playing "Morrowind" first, to get a picture of how the province looked. The book was good but too short -- might be better to wait until the price drops, or use interlibrary loan sometime.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:08 am

I'm in the minority who aren't too enthusiastic about possibly seeing Skyrim in the next game, since we already saw Solstheim in "Bloodmoon". But if there's a TES V, I guess there will be a diversity of locations in Skyrim also.

I recommend playing "Morrowind" first, to get a picture of how the province looked. The book was good but too short -- might be better to wait until the price drops, or use interlibrary loan sometime.

I really don't want to see it in Skyrim either, and would much prefer one of the more southern regions like Elsweyr. But, considering they trademarked Skyrim I guess I just have to grin and bear it. Besides, at least we're getting it out of the way now, so Beth can focus on the more interesting provinces in later games.

And yeah, I'll probably play Morrowind for a few hours and then read the book. The book is only $10 from Amazon, and that's a bit more than the price of a magazine so I'm fine with it. If it was $15 or $20, I might wait for a price drop, but $10 is pretty cheap imo. Plus, my library doesn't have it so I don't have much of a choice.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Also, it seems like at this point the Black Marsh is just as destroyed as Morrowind, and yet not too many people seem upset over that. Poor lizard dudes... Sure, plenty escaped, but do we really know how many? I'm sure both Morrowind and BlackMarsh are going to be drastically changed once repopulation and the like begin.

I actually don't think Black Marsh was hit that hard, from waht i heard Umbriel simply passed over it but didn't do a complete whipe. If passing over it was enough then Morrowind would be sterile now since it passed over Morrowind as well. Plus you REALLY have to keep in mind how big the provinces are, it's not that they're as tiny as shown in the games. Black Marsh is about 250 miles wide and 400 miles high at the widest points (taken from a map that takes Daggerfalls size into account).

Could somebody confirm over which towns it passed over?
The biggest problem seems like it passed over sentral Black Marsh and apparntly took a lot of the remaining hist trees with it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:23 pm

WHat do hist trees have to do with this book?

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:19 am

I was really disappointed the book didn't have a more political focus i was expecting it to be about the empires troubles after the oblivion crisis and how a new emperor came to power it just seems to of skipped all of that. And what ever happened to chancellor Ocata?

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:48 am

Just finished it. Wasn't expecting it to be only half of the story, but perhaps that's preferable since the book was short and wouldn't have been very satisfying to try to wrap up the story in that length. Anyone know when the next book is supposed to come out?

Was I the only one that at the description where Annaig sees the top of the city for the first time thought "Ah ha, it's Alinor!"?, but that was contradicted pretty quickly. And I guess if that uprooted and disappeared it would've been notable enough to mention before.

The author is fond of the word "depended"; I'd never seen it used that way before this book.

Could somebody confirm over which towns it passed over?

It doesn't specify any other than Lilmoth. You could take a map and draw a line from Lilmoth to Vivec and see what it intersects. Depending (!) on how spread-out the army is it seems it could've missed any other major cities or hit Helstrom, Stormhold, and Narsis.

Umbriel was more interesting than I thought it would be; from the description I was expecting something like a place mostly of mindless undead rather than a living place. I was certainly not expecting rival killer chef factions. I mostly wanted the book to find out what happens to Tamriel but was more interested in the city than what was happening on the ground.