Are Ogres lesser Daedra? The Ogrim in Morrowind were Daedroth, but Ogres seem to be just natives to Tamriel. I know this can be explained away by the theory that Malacath is an exiled Aedra, but was that theory in place before the Ogre question? If not, is this another example of simple concepts being overlooked by Bethesda?

I really don't think ogres are daedra, maybe Malacath just likes them because they're strong or perhaps some other reason, but I'm not sure if there's much explanation...

Malacath, Lord of Pariahs and outcasts, likes people who noboby else likes.

Malacath tends to be associated with vaguely humanoid monsters such as ogres, goblins and as some would have it, the Orcs. I reckon he favors them, as stated above, because he is the patron of pariahs and outcasts.

I would think that ogres and ogrim are different creatures, I can't find any link other than the Uesp however, so it is not proof positive yet. However, I am certain Malacath has a relationship with Ogres due to his Oblivion quest, in which he refers to them as his "little brothers" Which could be meant physically, though if they were daera I would assume they would be more like his children.


Ogrim are also significantly different than the Cyrodillic Ogres, if not intelligence than definately physical attributes. Although it could be the same game mechanics that messed up our Argonian friends, I believe they are not one in the same.


Our friend Malacath was not around until the orcs, who only appeared after the transformation (consumption) of Trinimac by Boethiah. It is my guess that the orcs are the descendants of Aldmer, who worshipped Trinimac quite a bit, and were probably changed in shape over time in no small part due to Malacath. Therefore, I would say ogres were around before orcs or Malacath, but I cannot find a source mentioning orcs in the earlier eras of creation.



EDIT: Precisely.

They are different, but the Lore states that Ogres are "one of Malacaths' creatures" which begs the very questions asked by the original poster. I am glad he or she posed them.

trolls, ogres, goblins, orcs... Each the wards of Malacath. Orcs were aldmer who worshiped trinimac but when boethiah went NOM NOM NOM and Malacath came into being they all went like gremlins and went all green and toothy. the other wards of malacath are his wards because for all intents and purposes they are the rejects of Nirn.Ogres are his little brothes in the sense that he looks at them like little brothers who he sometimes bullies but always protects when threatened.

But what are their origins?

Malacath began as the Aedric Trinimac, and was fundamentally altered completely outside the bounds of his original sphere by the acts of a Daedra, Boethiah. His nature, along with Meridia's, is somewhat different and unpopular among the other Daedra due to this, and gives certain odd aspects to him. This resulted in, among other things, the conversion of Trinimac believer-but-not-devout Altmer into the Chimer (before the color of their skin was altered at a much later date) under Boethiah's power, while those who remained devout to Trinimac http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_True_Nature_of_Orcs. Exiled isn't really the right word -- Lorkhan was exiled by the Aedra by being torn apart and forced into Nirn while retaining (at least in part) his previous attributes as a Trickster/Mentor/Inspiration aedra). Trinimac was completely converted from an aedra of the Mer warrior spirit, to a Daedra-like being of outsiders, the sworn promise, and the bloody oath (and probably strength), and has access to both the Mundus and Oblivion as much as any other Daedra.

This story dates back to at least Morrowind, and there's not much mention of Malacath (or the Ogrim, or the Ogres) before then, outside of just naming him.

Their origin's probably the same as any other minor beastfolk -- either unknowable, or a side-effect of the Mythic Era and the Aedra's formation of the world.