I am pretty sure this is a question that comes up quite a bit, so please forgive me and direct me to useful posts... but basically, despite reading the wiki, and thinking long and hard about this, I still can't work out how I can *do* these illusion spells well.

I'm helping a level 22 Altmer mystic archer, Brandi Wyne, who loves reading and was admitted to Arcane University so has access to the spell making altars. She doesn't wear any armour; instead robe and shoes and hood with enchanted wrist irons so spell effectiveness is 100%. She's working on her illusion skill at the moment, only at 62 or so, and she regularly goes for training etc, but despite this I don't seem to be able to help her get her spell-making right.

All I'd like to help her do is cast frenzy or demoralize or command humanoid/creature spells that work, and I would like suggestions for custom spells which will achieve this.

And if someone could explain how illusion works in very simple terms I'd be really grateful. :blink:

Thank you in advance...

ps if it matters, I'm playing on PS3!

Frenzy and Demoralize (and others) have a level associated with them.

That means, at 100% spell effectiveness, if you cast them on a target and the target is that level or lower then it will work. Otherwise it won't. It's that simple.

Of course there is no way to know in game what level an opponent is. On the PC it is possible to use a console command to find out, but that is not available on the PS3.

One important note about level defendant spells - if you get a level 25 spell and have 100% spell effectiveness, it will work on all levels.

Excellent explanation Savlian, I really appreciate it.

I will return to the University and have a go at creating a custom spell at lvl 25 - I think she will probably be unable to cast it yet, but oh.... what accomplishment awaits when it happens.

Thanks again.

For a Command spell, a short duration is usually enough to start a fight between your enemies. Just a few seconds is all you need, so that keeps down the casting cost. And the nice thing is you only have to cast it on one member of a group at a time. I usually combine it with Invisibility on self, so I can hide in the shadows and watch.

Frenzy, on the other hand, can backfire, and cause an angry enemy to come after you (in fact, I'd suggest that is its primary function, to draw a non-hostile NPC into a fight with you, so you can kill him without incurring a bounty.)

I don't feel that Demoralize is terribly useful.

I agree with glargg. Command humanoid and command creature are your big money makers. You can easily start a big fight. As glarrg said, only a few seconds is enough. Once the fight starts, they will continue, often inflicting friendly fire and spreading the mahem.

I agree also on frenzy. Best used for special circumstnces when you want to pick a fight or cause an NPC to kill himself on the blade of a nearby guard. Rally is not overly useful. By combining it with frenzy, you can encourage an NPC with high responsibility to go ahead and start a fight. Trying to rally your allies to fight for you is normally not a problem.

Demoralize can be handy if melee is a problem for you. You can poison your foe, then make them run away and die.

All the above effects can be enchanted on weapons and in some cases, be quite handy (eg: a bow with a 2 second demoralize on it can effectively lock your foe into 'dancing' between charge and run away animations if you keep firing).

Calm and paralyze can also be useful, but cannot be enchanted onto weapons at the altar or via sigil stones.

This is really helpful, thank you.

On Mages guild main quest Brandi successfully started a fight between vampire hunters and the guards in Skingrad by using frenzy, although I see what you mean re: unpredictable - they ended up killing Reman Broder in the cross fire! She also successfully got a bear to stand quietly by her side, which was sooo cool... and out in the pastures by Skingrad she cast frenzy on the lone vampire hunter, who promptly ran off after the sheep shouting and screaming at them! Which was really funny.

I have a spare ebony bow at the moment so I'm going to try the demoralize enchantment next.

Thanks again.

Personally I prefer Frenzy to Command.

It is much cheaper. And you don't need a long duration frenzy spell either. Just long enough to get the targets to hit each other a few (3 or so) times, then they get naturally angry. And you can also periodically cast to keep things going.

And as far as the target attacking you, there are two ways to deal with that, in my experience (1) invisibility or sneak/chameleon, and/or (2) keep your distance, targets will tend to attack something nearer than your character.

So an on target, short duration, area effect Frenzy spell is a favorite of mine (for some characters at least). It is cheap, effective, and fun!

And, I consider demoralize and rally somewhat useless too. (EDIT: demoralize can have uses, particularly a a low level, if a bunch of thugs or something gang up on you. It could thin the crowd, by sending some big Barbarian Nord running away like a sissy.

Demoralize does have its uses, though it's mainly as an adjunct to something else. If it works, it will remove one combatant from the fight for a short time, leaving you to turn your attentions to the remainder. I've found to to be somewhat useful when you have two or three creatures charging at the same time. It evens the odds a bit in that case, but it's about useless on a single creature and is only possibly useful if you don't have a rough idea of the creature's level. A Custom spell with that effect would be infinitely more useful than the standard ones, especially in light of the leveled creature system.