Why do some old fallout fans prefer 1 & 2 to 3 and new vegas? i see nothing but improvements with each installment, but i have an open mind because system shock 2 is 10x superior to bioshock FACT, and morrowind is superior to skyrim in many aspects too.

so what is it? is it because the series turned first person rpg? what could be better than first person rpg? all the best games are fp/rpg hybrids!

I'm an old school fallout fan, but I have to say, Bethesda is doing a great job on fallout

I think it is more the nostalgia for me than anything else. I love all of the Fallout installments and I do agree that many things have improved with each installment but I grew up with the original Fallout games and they will always be special to me.


I loved Fallout 3 but it had some continuity problems from the older Fallout titles that really [censored] me off. New Vegas was made by Obsidian also, buddy.

The stories where better, they were original and paved the way for the rest.
Because of how simple the games were they could have a better story, larger areas to explore, not to mention the stories weren't as flawed as Fallout 3.

I've found that most Dinosaurs quite like Fallout New vegas as it returns to the West coast and implements more of the back story of Fallout 1 & 2 and gives more RPGing than Fallout 3 with the multiple endings, and a lot less inconstiences than Fallout 3.

EDIT: I think....

I am not THAT old.

The term Dinosaur refers to most people that prefer or really like the older games. You can see it in most of the sigs of some of the active Fallout posters.

Really? I think First person is what is really killing RPG's today. Primarily because when you add in First Person you start to become action adventure games instead of RPG. the main reason being you have player skill taking over from character skill. Then you start to have non-sensical mechanics to compensate for it. IE if you have leet FPS skill you can get more hits it doesn't matter how good or bad your character is at his guns skill. Speaking of guns skill my bullets are suddenly weaker or stronger if fired from the same gun depending on skill. It really should be if I actually hit them or not and where.

So yeah the FPS is killing the classical RPG and replacing it with action adventure games with shallow story and mechanics and replacing it with FPS action oriented combat and eyecandy. Look at Fallout 3 rarely did you have to do much thinking on anything, pretty much 100% of the quest you did was combat it tried to go for pure "EPIC Battle" instead of doing a multiple ending, branching quest, shades of gray plot. With this trend of less character more eyecandy less substance is it really that hard to see why we like the originals better? Just look, take a good look at skyrim's quest and story and can you really say they are deep or as branching as Fallout 1+2's?

That is untrue m8. I myself play CounterStrike just as much as I play Fallout (and that is a [censored]load) Which I think makes me "leet" and yet at level 1 on Fallout NV No matter how hard I try I cannot hit a Powder Ganger with my first shot from a distance where he can't see me, which is not far at all. This is because guns have a certain amount of "Bullet Spread" Which is what causes the bullets to stray from the target and miss, even if your crosshair is right on them. So no Player Skill Does not overtake Character Skill in this game.

In regards to FPS- Seldom do I actively play in First Person. I prefer third person, as I like to see my character when I play. The scenery wont magically change to crap the moment I go to third person.

As for what I like better, it depends. I enjoy that nostalgic charm that Fallout and Fallout 2 has. Fallout and Fallout 2 have great dialogue, but Fallout 2 get's a bit tiring with it's 'LOL THIS DIALOGUE IS BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL/BLATENT MOVIE REFERENCE, DID YOU GET IT? HUH? DIDJA?'. 3 and New Vegas were fun visually, but New Vegas hit the story and dialogue better. As for 3, I prefer Fallout 3's retro-futuristic 1950's Atomic Family optimism. And GNR will always have a special spot in my heart.

Edit: @ F+N=O, another thing you have to take into consideration, the combat crosshair wise in Third Person is wonky in 3 and NV. I only use FPS for combat or cutscenes because those are the best moments for them.

THIS x100000! I have never been able to explain how I felt about all of the games in the series properly, and now I don't have to. You just did it for me. Now if only I can remember that off by heart

Not really, bullet spread is more of a function of the gun your using then anything else. IE spawn yourself a sniper rifle of battle rifle right out of the Doc's house and see if you get the same results. IN FPS you have spread too so it is basically the same thing your talking about too.

Well, the problem is, the crosshair in Third is a bit unreliable, you have to aim a bit left or right of the target to hit it (I cant remember which). The spread works fine and dandy, it's something in the core mechanics that's the problem, not an RPG problem.

But what I'm saying you never have this problem in the originals mechanics. IE You have the situation of it doesn't matter if you have 1 or 100 skill if you svck at FPS and can't get the cross hair on a target you'll never do damage. Not so with character driven combat if you put skills in guns you'll hit your target like you'd expect regardless.

Eh, I would rather rely on my own shooting, since I prefer the Character/Player hybrid. I like to rely on my character AND myself on some things.

You are correct. Bullet Spread is indeed a function of a gun BUT the higher your characters gun skill is the less spread you get from said guns.

I know but if you can't put the cross hair on the target having 1 or 100 skill in guns is meaningless. Hence player skill in a FPRPG is superior then anything on your character sheet.

If you can't put a crosshair onto an enemy in an FPS game then I recommend getting your eyes checked my good man. You are correct in saying that if you can't actually get a crosshair onto an enemy then it doesn't matter BUT most people can in fact do so making your argument fall flat on it's face.

P.S. If I insulted you in any way just then, I apologise, it is impossible to convey tone and such over the internet.

But thats not what I'm getting at. If you build up a elite sniper character but your no good at FPS action then your character isn't so elite now is he? In a character based gaming system that isn't true. Case in point In fallout 2 I had a character sniper build that took all the sharpshooting perception enhancing perks and eventually took sniper perk. at 180% guns and a sniper rifle I could get 95% hit to the eyes on enemies a screen and a half away. If I try the same thing in FO3/ NV I'm limited by my own ability to put targets in crosshairs and I'd guess I'd only get between 75-80% of shots with long range sniping and get head shots.

Not in my world, they're not, but I'm old with a long memory. I get your preference, though, and welcome to the majority viewpoint! I have little doubt you'll find disappointment in your future.

That's exactly right but what I was saying was that guns skill does indeed help and that you can't TOTALLY rely on your own skill. I know what it was like in the old Fallouts too I played them. IMO FPRPG are better because of this though. You feel more involved and immersed in the game if it also relies on YOUR abilities and not just your characters.



I don't. Most COD fans I know are very quick to insult fans of FPRPGs, but such is life. They'll get their comeuppance when they finally realise that their favourite game is just the same thing over and over and over and over ... ....

I don't think it's better it's just different genre entirely. the more you add in purely player based skills the less it becomes an RPG and the more it becomes an Action Adventure game.

I just said that it is not a PURELY player based skill. If it were a PURE player based skill I would be able hit a Fiend in the head from a hundred yards away with a Varmint Rifle not using iron sights just as long as I had the crosshair directly on his head even though my guns was only, say, 15. But that isn't right, is it? To do that I would have to have a much higher guns skill therefore proving that it is a HYBRID approach where player skill does affect the outcome but character skill will ultimately decide it.

How does VATS figure into this discussion? I find myself not using VATS much as I'm usually much more effective with my own aim, and because I don't like the way it breaks up the rhythm of combat. But what do people who prefer 'pure' RPGs think of VATS?

Geez, can you be more patronizing?

I doubt that would change his mind. VATS is basically a small insight into what combat was in Fallout and Fallout 2 for those who never experienced the game. Even though VATS depends solely on Character ability I am pretty sure Andaius means the core of the game rather than what I consider to be a mini-game.

What happened to groin kicks and eye shots?