[Emilie Joseph]

I was thinking, it wold be pretty cool to see the elder scrolls IV suggestions thread to see what or opinions and ideas did to mold oblivion. It would also be nice to see old threads on morrowind possibly criticism compared to daggerfall

[Ricky Rayner]

I was thinking, it wold be pretty cool to see the elder scrolls IV suggestions thread to see what or opinions and ideas did to mold oblivion. It would also be nice to see old threads on morrowind possibly criticism compared to daggerfall

That would be very difficult I'm afraid, unless someone kept copies of the discussions on their own computer then we really have nothing to go by except the people who were here when those threads came up. You see, every once in a while the forums are swept and old threads are deleted, the last one was when the new forum layout came, can't remember the exact date, but it was sometime early this year. Your best bet is to just talk to the people here, the people with the most info will be the moderators since monitoring threads is what they do.

[steve brewin]

Would be lovely if some mod shared their experience with us:P

[Krystina Proietti]

You can look up old websites. I forget the site they posted, but someone posted up an old forum page from 2003.

I remember, back then, specifically arguing with a bunch of people who wanted essential NPC's to be unkillable, while they were making Oblivion.

I also remember a lot of hype about the radiant AI and stories about all the demonstrations they did of NPC's doing wacky stuff.

Like this Dark Elf who invited the PC in, and they both sat down and her dog was barking so she threw him a turkey leg or something. And it kept barking, so she got mad and shot it with a fireball.

[Tikarma Vodicka-McPherson]

Extreme level-scaling is a product of complaints about Morrowind. I wonder what TES V's complaint-addressing flaws will be.

[CRuzIta LUVz grlz]

What were some of the older gamesas forum URLs? Just asking because the Internet Archive might have something.

[maddison]

http://www.imperial-library.info/forum_archive/Lore%20Changes%20in%20Morrowind%20-%20Thoughts%20from%20Lore%20Scholars.rar.

That's the closest you'll get, op. Topics were not typically saved, for the same reason we have today; we have the same discussions every day.

[Kari Depp]

I remember, back then, specifically arguing with a bunch of people who wanted essential NPC's to be unkillable, while they were making Oblivion.

People actually WANTED that? I wish I had signed up to the forums as soon as I got Morrowind...

"I know, let's make it so that every important NPC in the game is an immortal god that completely ruins immersion when fighting"
"That sound good"

I also remember a lot of hype about the radiant AI and stories about all the demonstrations they did of NPC's doing wacky stuff.

Like this Dark Elf who invited the PC in, and they both sat down and her dog was barking so she threw him a turkey leg or something. And it kept barking, so she got mad and shot it with a fireball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8pyOP0VQI&playnext_from=TL&videos=kVu9AaIquoA video made me rage.

[Eibe Novy]

We could look at old criticism and what it did and try to predict what the new criticism will do. :hubbahubba: I don't have any experience with pre-Oblivion criticism.

[Mike Plumley]

We could look at old criticism and what it did and try to predict what the new criticism will do. :hubbahubba: I don't have any experience with pre-Oblivion criticism.

Ok so lets see...

"The best guild was the dark brotherhood" translates to --> "Every guild in TES V is an assasin's guild"

"Radiant AI wasn't that good" translates to --> "No AI in TES V, NPC's are even dumber than before"

Gee this is fun

[Mackenzie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8pyOP0VQI&playnext_from=TL&videos=kVu9AaIquoA video made me rage.

I too was a little saddened that I couldn't find Thunder and his owner in the game and watch them in action, and I was also disappointed that Dunmer don't have the creaky Morrowind-style voices. I can't honestly say that either one of those things enraged me, though. On the up side, all of the printed Oblivion previews and interviews, including those from all of the writers who witnessed the E3 demos, provided me an accurate description of how Radiant AI would be. Good stuff! :foodndrink:

[Yama Pi]

People actually WANTED that? I wish I had signed up to the forums as soon as I got Morrowind...

"I know, let's make it so that every important NPC in the game is an immortal god that completely ruins immersion when fighting"
"That sound good"

Believe it or not, I was outnumbered on this one.

So many people were complaining that they killed an essential NPC and it ruined the game for them because they were too dumb to figure out that they can just make a new character or focus on the factions instead.

I remember someone arguing with me, "you shouldn't be going around killing everyone anyway, you sicko."

But what if I want to roleplay a serial killer, dummy? It's a roleplaying game, not an action game.

The devs didn't ruin TES. Mindless fans ruined TES.

[Peter lopez]

People actually WANTED that? I wish I had signed up to the forums as soon as I got Morrowind...

"I know, let's make it so that every important NPC in the game is an immortal god that completely ruins immersion when fighting"
"That sound good"

Believe it or not, I was outnumbered on this one.

So many people were complaining that they killed an essential NPC and it ruined the game for them because they were too dumb to figure out that they can just make a new character or focus on the factions instead.

I don't think it was so much that people were complaining too much, it was that the radiant AI was causing important npcs all over the place to get themselves killed. Then they made them invincible, and they still did stupid things. So they dialed back the AI a large amount and left them invincible.

[Sara Lee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8pyOP0VQI&playnext_from=TL&videos=kVu9AaIquoA video made me rage.

I too was a little saddened that I couldn't find Thunder and his owner in the game and watch them in action, and I was also disappointed that Dunmer don't have the creaky Morrowind-style voices.

I was enraged when I saw it too, since it was so ridiculous. Why on Earth (or Tamriel) would someone set fire to their dog when he's being noisy and hyperactive? That's the equivalent of a real-world owner hurling a molotov cocktail at his dog whenever he barks. Hitting the dog would be believable, but paralysis and fireball spells? God awful design choice, and i'm glad it's absent from the game. It was an obvious case of Bethesda wanting to show off their tech even though it compromised immersion. Something that does not belong in a TES game.

Completely agree with you about the Dunmer voices though. Lack of tattoos for the Dunmer, and big beards for the Nords, was also a little disappointing in character generation.

[ILy- Forver]

Ok so lets see...

"The best guild was the dark brotherhood" translates to --> "Every guild in TES V is an assasin's guild"

the best "guild" was House Hlaalu, imo.

Political madness and corruption, here I come!

(Seriously, that's a good thing)

"Radiant AI wasn't that good" translates to --> "No AI in TES V, NPC's are even dumber than before"

Gee this is fun

I'd rather have no AI than crappy AI. :shrug:

[barbara belmonte]

Let's see what the future holds in response to current complaints.

[Tamara Primo]

Yeah that came off as meaner than intended. Oh well.

My point was it's not the fault of the devs most of the time, it's the fault of the more mindless people who happen to become very vocal when a game first comes out and they can't get all the xbox achievments within a week.

[Soph]

Old Threads a look back at the criticism of morrowind when it came out
Maybe you should try searching for these "olde threads" next time. Why this interest in Morrowind criticism, lately? Is the Morr-letariat keeping the plebes down?

[kat no x]

Yeah that came off as meaner than intended. Oh well.

My point was it's not the fault of the devs most of the time, it's the fault of the more mindless people who happen to become very vocal when a game first comes out and they can't get all the xbox achievments within a week.

I agree with you on that and I agree that NPCs should all be killable, but the important ones should only be killable by the player character, in my opinion. The AI having important people die unintended deaths beyond the control of the player doesn't sound fun.

[jadie kell]

I agree with you on that and I agree that NPCs should all be killable, but the important ones should only be killable by the player character, in my opinion. The AI having important people die unintended deaths beyond the control of the player doesn't sound fun.

That might be a workable compromise and it would be a good addition to the suggestions thread.

Unless, of course, the radiant AI is smart enough that essential NPC's will stay out of harm's way to begin with.

Or, they should just make it so that the important roads of the province aren't overrun with beasts and bandits. There's no reason for them to be in the first place. In Daggerfall you could walk from city to city without ever being attacked, then in Morrowind and Oblivion, everything attacks you every minute. Where's our happy medium?

[NeverStopThe]

That might be a workable compromise and it would be a good addition to the suggestions thread.

Unless, of course, the radiant AI is smart enough that essential NPC's will stay out of harm's way to begin with.

Or, they should just make it so that the important roads of the province aren't overrun with beasts and bandits. There's no reason for them to be in the first place. In Daggerfall you could walk from city to city without ever being attacked, then in Morrowind and Oblivion, everything attacks you every minute. Where's our happy medium?

Ehh, maybe. I got attacked all the time in the wilderness of Daggerfall.

[He got the]

Ehh, maybe. I got attacked all the time in the wilderness of Daggerfall.

Really?

Maybe I don't walk through the wilderness enough. I like crossing the borders between provinces. Especially when I'm on the run from the law.

[Jesus Lopez]

Really?

Maybe I don't walk through the wilderness enough. I like crossing the borders between provinces. Especially when I'm on the run from the law.

If I show up somewhere at night and I have no climbing skill, I run through the wilderness till I can find a spot to sleep. Or sometimes if there's a town really close to a dungeon, I run the wilderness between them. Usually it's critters that spawn out there as you run along, and they get worse at night. Like werewolves and vampires as you level up.

[N Only WhiTe girl]

Yes, immortal essential NPCs were a result of criticism of Morrowind. I honestly don't see it as a bad thing. Killing essential NPCs can really screw your game and if you haven't saved in a while it can be frustrating. Hell, some players didn't realize that they had killed an essential NPC until later in the game when they decided to finally try the main quest.

It was just to make Oblivion more forgiving to players' mistakes and also as a countermeasure to malfunction of the "radiant AI". Imagine killing the emperor by accident at the starting area then getting slaughtered by the blades. That would gave players a bad first impression of the game.

As for other criticism of Morrowind when Oblivion was announced. Well, these forums were very lively at least . People complained about how NPCs stood in one place all the time, how there was no way to apologize to NPCs if they attacked them by accident, about the dice roll "hit or miss" combat system, about lack of useful or accurate directions to quest objectives just to name a few. They even complained about the lack of toilets around Vvardenfell!

[Jessica Phoenix]

Where was the other thread that was just like this?

Complaints about getting lost = quest compass

Complaints about not hitting with every weapon every time = hitting with every weapon every time, at 10% damage

Complaints about becoming a god (guess what happens after playing a game for 100 hours where you kill a REAL god) = level scaled goblins that are harder to kill the stronger you are