You coudnt have said it better! :turtle:

I actually never said that. I merely gave examples of why shooters cannot and should not try to accurately mimic real life, in regards to game mechanics. But nice rant. Completely misguided, but I know how theraqeutic it is to vent some steam. :thumbsup:

Like I said, they do indeed appear visually inspired by real life. That's a given. But very few features, of any game I've ever played or heard of, accurately reflect the real world. Everything is heavily simplified when translated to game format, even in military simulation games. It's like the difference between an actual assault rifle and its Nerf, dart-shooting counterpart. One is designed to actually kill people, and the other is designed to be fun and entertaining.

I was referring more to in-game mechanics such as ADS vs. "hip-fire", or low vs. high bullet-damage etc... Not the obvious influences you pointed out. Sorry, I should have explained myself better.

Also, what Hatter said

Internet arguments sure are fun. I responded to the comment, "...nor do I think real life has any place in a discussion about video games" with, "[oh look at all of these games with influences on visual design and game philosophy from real-life combat!]". You responded with, "[VIDEO GAMES AREN'T REAL LIFE. PEOPLE DON'T RESPAWN. Video game can't play like real life.]"

Where you take non-important differences between a modern-era shooter and a modern-era military force or war, i.e. respawning, game developers are starting with a game and seeing how much tribute and integrity can go in to what inspired that game. Game mechanics like respawning, a trivial health pool (getting shot in the leg, you can still sprint), and the way bullets travel and impact opposing players are some of things that are not tributes or integrity. They are game mechanics necessary for the game to function as we, the players, expect it to.

Perhaps I wasn't clear about this, but visual design is the obvious part of my argument. Game philosophy is the non-obvious part and what I thought would be construed as the brunt of the argument. Visual direction is what you get from walking in the door, it's common knowledge, anyone can see it. Game design (see: Medal of Honor collaborating with former/current military) and the philosophy that inspires it are heavily drawn from real-life scenarios and experience. What starts as an account of a raid on a suspected terrorist hideout may develop in the game as the ability to breach doors (Americas Army) - but not as the ability to jump-crouch through a window.

You responded with common knowledge, and then later with condescension, and yet you have actually posted nothing of import to anyone's argument. Nailed it.



And yeah, you kinda did say that. :thumbsup:

Yes, but not everything. Fear is something that needs to be implemented in games. Fear of crossing an open street, fear of objective loss, fear of making mistakes. Games don't have that and frankly nerfing everything so everyone can have "funz" I can't say is a step in the right direction.

It just promotes the belief that guns are toys to be played with but thats honestly my own view.

Games are made to be fun, and enjoyable. If you want fear, and realism I suggest you go enlist in the military.

Look, I'm sorry if I was condescending before. Your first reply to Poster_Boy wasn't clear in what ways those games were inspired by real life, and I sort of went off on a tangent about unrealistic game mechanics and, well, whatever. Sorry.

Peace? :poke:

<3

That is the thing, this game doesn't have to be realistic. If you made a game that was completely realistic then it would be no fun. If you look at COD, it is not realistic at all. If you get shot you aren't going to go regenerating health. You would slowly bleed to death. So, Brink is made to be fun for everybody, not realistic.

I have been watching brink since it was mentioned in like '09 (or was it '08?). I love the "no sniping" policy and the emphasis on "down and dirty". It will make this game all the more fun. I am also all about the teamwork, but thats for another subject.

There's no "no sniping policy" simply a lesser amount of OHK possibilities. They've got scopes and powerful rifles and people will use them.



Onto the "fun" argument. Everybody knows games are for fun, fun is different for everybody, stop belittling each other and accept that there's a disagreement over the mechanics because of those differences, then chat about the differences like normal people.

Whats sad is that how absolutely every die-hard COD fan on the websites will rip your face off for suggesting that COD isn't realistic. Thing is your right, a person can't take 5-6 bullets to the chest, shoot the guy that shot him, then proceed to book it around the corner just to heal up and do it again 5 seconds later.
IRL without any sort of body armor, 1 bullet from a 9mm is all it takes to kill you, that one shot hits you anywhere in the torso and its going to do enough damage to either kill in minutes or hours (without immediate medical attention) if it doesn't outright kill you. you take that bullet to the arm or leg, the chances of using that arm or leg within the next few days is slim because of the damage it would do to the veins/arteries, muscle tissue, and bone, not to mention that the chances of bleeding out are pretty damn good if you don't have that medical attention ASAP. Now if you have that body armor, depending on the caliber of the gun and the kind of armor your wearing, its still gonna knock you around but probably won't punch through unless you hit a weak point or the same area several times, as for when it does go through, the bullet velocity will decrease enough that unless it hits something vital, your not dead until you bleed out but that bullet defiantly isn't leaving your body with the remaining velocity and thus doing considerable more damage if it bounces around once or twice.

For those of who on the Barrett .50 Cal, that thing is a [censored] beast rifle, the recoil on it will probably do more damage to you than the guy your shooting at if it isn't mounted and properly fired. The lightweight .50 cal rifles can be shot without mounting but absolutely MUST be done in prone with proper support or your going to be breaking your shoulder and that bullet will never make it to the target. (By the time it leaves the barrel the recoil would have already dropped you to the ground from the pain of the kick-back, and while that bullet is still in the barrel, direction of travel can change at the slightest motion of the barrel.) Same physics go with all rifles, longer barreled rifles have a greater chance of this occurring though. As for the 8 inches and your arm is gone from page 1, that is total [censored] bro, 8 inches is a long ass miss, within an 8th of an inch you'd do some damage, the subsonic waves that follow that bullet will probably tear open your skin/muscles at that distance, now if it passed an 8th of an inch from your head, your brain would be flattened to the back/side of your skull from that wave even if the outward physical damage looked minimal. Now if it hits you, dear god thats a whole different story, Nothing left of your brain bucket, big ass hole in the chest, or garunteed missing limbs, depending on the point of impact.

Now onto Hip fire [censored]. As was probably stated many times already, in every proper FPS game there is absolutely ZERO hip fire going on. The term 'From the hip' just means your not taking that extra half second to sight the gun. the bullet will still go where the barrel is pointing and will not randomly veer off to the side just cause your not ADS. the only games i have played so far that accurately does this is the Rainbow 6 series. While unmoving the shooter has a much better control over his/her rifle and thus the bullets go where he/she wants them too, BUT while moving that control is not as accurate and the gun will be bouncing around more because of your motion and thus you get your spread, the more you move, the bigger the spread. Even while ADS, motion will affect the spread because if the barrel even slightly twitches as the bullet is traveling thru it, the bullet goes to the spot in which it was pointing when it finally exits the barrel. Games like Operation Flashpoint also do a decent job at this kind of realism not only for damage but also for gun physics in the sense that the potential spread is minimal while not ADS and unmoving,

You see thats the thing. I want to play a SHOOTER. Planes, cars, trains, jet skis, etc. I couldn't care less about. I and many others want to play a pure skill based shooter. That's what Brink brings to the table. That's why many people are so excited for it. I don't care if you can fly a plane better than me in a videogame or drive a car or whatever. But I do care whether I have better aim, movement, etc. I'm not saying BF is not fun and it's a great choice for many people. I do believe that a pure BALANCED shooter like Brink is a more hardcoe game for the competitive FPS gamers out there. That is why the competitive community is really interested in this game. It's like the last hope lol. BF is fun but when I get killed by a jet and I have a pistol..I don't exactly call that balanced LMAO.

What you said earlier about COD/BF/Medal of HOnor/whatever is exactly right. They are all trying to do the same thing. Which is why that type of gameplay is lame and stale to me and is exactly why I welcome what Brink promises with open arms.

#1 reason why im looking forward to brink. brink reminds me of the good old arcady shooters with a couple new twist to it. #2 would be all the customization thats allowed in sp and mp.

as for BF the only thing thats not really balanced is the airplanes and helicopters other than that i think its a really balanced game. also nothing is wrong with cod its just gotten stale over the years (i still think cod4 has been the best of the series).

Props to the OP, great post!

So kinda newbie to the forums and to Brink in general. I honestly didn't really know about it till an old ut2k4 clanmate xfired me about this new game brink. I've been watching a lot of vids and so far this looks like the game I've be waiting for!

Fact is I've been playing fps's since the beginning back in the Wolf/quake/Unreal days. Growing up on these arena style fps's, most of the titles nowadays feel like a downgrade to the skill set I grew up learning. Now don't get me wrong COD/BF style games have mass appeal which is great. But I miss the days of movement/
Twitch/community based shooters. I get the fact dev's had to slow things down for console and so the learning curve wasn't so steep, cuz we all know its all about $ these days. But to me the COD style game play is getting awfully stale. Now my dream would be another fast paced twitch style shooter but I've come to the realization that its just not gonna happen in these console driven days, but Brink looks like it'll fill most of the dream. I preordered now and hopefully Brink delivers, maybe even bringing some of us older generation gamers back into the mix:)

COD is f ing bs. worst game i've ever played. its just a bunch of preteen no lives crouched in a corner with an overpowered assault rifle with a grenade launcher attachment, and to make it worse they have killstreaks for chopper gunners and gunships.
so for 1 the game is f ing terrible
and 2, when the players arent playing the game they just talk about it ALL DAY LONG
im seriously about to stab a 13 year old in the neck D:<

from my experience when ppl complain about cod lik this it usually meant they svcked at the game. sure theres lots of problems with cod but theres always a way to counter it (except quick scoping). also ur complainin about how they talk about the game to much... on a game forum... see the irony?

We really should stop comparing this to CoD (myself included.) We'll find the very day this comes out that they are polar opposites.

I have the same hopes for the game. I really hope that this influences other devs towards the non ohk style shooter with fast movement. I really believe that's where we will end up. Devs have been training casual mass gamers with this slow paced easy to get kills gameplay and slowly but surely those gamers will want something more. Even they will get sick of getting killed by helicopters, planes, spaceships, noobtubes, ohk game modes, etc. Eventually they will want a challenge. Hopefully Brink is the game that begins to move fps development in that direction.

You see devs started console gamers with easier gameplay and limited options....no mod tools. Eventually even console gamers will expect that level of control. It's inevitable.

What makes running around and spraying bullets any more challenging than sneaking around and avoiding being killed? Two completely different skill sets, I prefer games that mix them making for even more of a challenge.

True you can be good at both. In my experience when I get killed by a camping sniper I have to then change up my game style to go kill the sniper. Taking me away from good mid to close quarters gunplay. Then I kill the sniper like 4 times in a row and he changes up to a regular gun. Then I realize why he played so "tactically" ......he is terrible with moving and shooting. He then gets frustrated and begins to plant mines and noobtube. Sorry I just think in those cases that is obviously an inferior player who uses the easy kill tools devs made for people who can't move fast aim and shoot. It makes the game boring IMO. In brink that will not happen. You have to be good at movement AND shooting more than one burst.

Does that mean you can't be good at both? No. I just find that usually it's bad players that rely on easy "tactics" like that. I can kill them almost every time but I have to play in a way that I hate.


Btw it's not just running around spraying bullets lol. A good player in wolf for example will always beat a newb 1 v 1. It won't even be close but it would be downright comical.

Exactly...the newb running around spraying bullets will totally get rick rolled. In quake/unreal its all about hitscan, no ADS, no recoil, just point and click and whoever is more accurate and has the superior movement and tactics wins. One pro player could bring down 5 newbs without cover, just because of tactics,movement, and aim. While this may not be "lifelike" its a lot of fun, except if your the newb. Thats why those games were not newbie friendly, the learning curve was huge. I still play UT2k4 alot because amazingly alot of ppl still play and ppl keep on making maps and mods, hopefully Brink can develop that type of dedicated community, because thats what really makes gaming fun imo. Now from what i understand there will be no editor, which potentially could hinder the longevity of the game, but as long as SD stays loyal to Brink for the long haul I don't see it being an issue. Only time will tell...

Umm any good player should be a newb 1 v 1. Its like a wolf fighting a sheep.

Being able to flip your thumb left and right in a better "straight line" while tapping the jump button to make you harder to hit doesn't make you better. It's just a different set of "skills".

It does make you better at a game that focuses on your ability to keep your thumb moving left and right in a straight line though.