Well, the Amulet of Kings in the Stone of White-Gold Tower, just as Lorkhan's Heart is the Stone of Red Tower, so it all kinda flows together.

I think you can both be right at the same time.

Has there been a consensus here about the nature of the planes we see in the game - whether they are the Deadlands proper or some auxiliary pocket planes?

Say it's the latter case. Then the reality of the plane is molded by its tower, and the link to Mundus kept by its stone; only while the two are together can there be a Gate.

I'm of the school of mind that it's an actual link to the Deadlands, which explains the ruins around each gate (collapsed towers and the like). Perhaps only certain parts of his realm have weak enough barriers to intersect with Nirn, and the removal of the Sigil Stone causes a catastrophic event on the order of earthquakes, fire and brimstone in the Deadlands, as the fiery pillar goes "into overdrive" so to speak and eventually destroys itself and the surroundings.

Or perhaps its just that even Dagon is smart enough not to link the gates directly to the heartland of his realm, just in case some upstart adventurer decides they want to be a hero and charges in... afterall, had he not put the towers out in the middle of oceans of lava it might have been just as easy for Nirn to invade the Deadlands as it was for it to invade Nirn.

The planes you visit are an exact match to what the Deadlands are.

There was never any doubt that the planes in question belong to [the realm of] Mehrunes Dagon and thus are of the same appearance and nature as the Deadlands. What I'm asking is whether the Gates lead out to an anologue to the Shivering Isles, or something more like Battlespire.

As far as I can interpret the in-game books, only a decendant of the "dragon blood" can wear the amulet. That doesn't mean a "close" relative, or the eldest offspring, it applies to ANY decendant. It also does NOT apply to other kings or emperors who are not direct decendants.

Given the amount of intermarriage between noble households, that would very quickly grow to include just about every noble in Tamriel, and a large number in other places over time. By the time in which the Oblivion crises takes place, you could probably take any beggar off the streets of the Imperial City and have at least a 25% chance of him/her being able to wear the amulet. Mankar Cameron is probably directly related to Tiber Septim in 16 different ways, although not even remotely in line for the throne. Having him wear the amulet is no big deal, in that respect.

I suspect that the only ways to determine whether or not someone could wear the amulet would either to do extensive geneological checks, or just try it. It doesn't say whether failing would be fatal, or whether it just wouldn't allow itself to be worn, so we have no basis to know whether or not they could have just gone around "testing" candidates at random. If it were fatal for anyone not of the "dragon blood", that would make it a calculated risk for any potential "Emperor wanna-be", a final "do-or-die" rite of passage before being allowed to assume the throne. Your character either couldn't or wouldn't wear it, and the last game didn't allow you to take that "test", so we may never know.

The situation during the reign of Potentate Versidue Shai'i remains unexplained, because he was certainly NOT a decendant of Allesia (although he might have his own "dragon blood" in a cryptic sort of way). The Oblivion gates could have appeared at any time during that interval, with nothing to prevent it.

It looks to me you're applying too much science to a universe were myths and magic are real.

From what I've seen the most logical explanation is that Mankar is quite literally God in his realm of Paradise. Thus, he can do whatever he wants.

At that time, Red Tower was still around. Thus, the Dragonfires could have gone unlit and the barrier between Nirn and Oblivion remain. AND, Dagon had already invaded Mournhold a while before, and was repulsed by Almalexia and Sotha Sil, so the Tribunal could possibly have been keeping the daedra in check. Not to mention Sotha Sil got them to agree that they wouldn't answer just anyones summons.

Man, I sometimes hate how Oblivion (the game) has made things so complicated that used to be simple.

I'm for the theory on the auxiliary pockets, it just makes more sense, you don't attack an enemies base directly from your own, you set-up encampments on the way so that troops, resources, and equipment are safe as well as delivered faster. Same goes for these gates, MD may sometimes be portrayed as a brute, but he isn't an idiot, he's not likely to take chances if he can avoid them.

You must be new here. This is rather on-topic for a Lore Forum thread.

It could be MD was taking chances as he didn't expect "the might of Oblivion" to be overcome by "mere" mortals. It'd be the equiv to teddy bears with sticks taking out Stormt--- oh wait.

He wore it in Tamriel.

I like this theory. After Battlespire, I would think Dagon be a bit more cautious in planning his invasion. The funny part is that if we had LEVITATE in Oblivion, the Empire could send a battalion of elite Battlemagi into the Deadlands, and, at the very least, close some of those infernal gates for us. :shrug:


He can wear it on Nirn too - when you infiltrate the Dagon Shrine and he's addressing the cultists, it's on.

Because the script only checks if the player has equipped it.
Basically that means, that even those highwaymen have septim blood in their veins.. pretty weird...
Even the daedra can wear the amulet ^_^

Since Mankar Cameron wears the amulet in both Cyrodiil and in his own pocket realm, he's obviously descended from Allesia, or else somehow "outside" the rule. Then again, with all of the generations of Emperors and the intermarriages of all those younger royal offspring over the last two ages, 25% of Cyrodiil is probably descended from Alessia by this point, so it's no big deal. I would assume that the proportion of Nobles with royal blood would be even higher, probably exceeding 90%. Perhaps your character was the last denizen of Cyrodiil NOT descended from Allesia.........

Since the amulet is now gone, and the link between Nirn and Oblivion has been "adjusted" to some new but undefined status, we really don't know the new "laws" of the game universe as enforced by Akatosh. Is the division between them now permanent? Is it only temporary until Merunes Dagon appears back in OB after some time spent drifting in the chaos between realms (as when he was defeated by the Tribunal)? Is the seperation no longer enforced, but any bridges existing at that time were broken? The last game definitely confused a lot of things, and created a lot more questions than it answered.

There's 1 large and glaring issue, Kovacius. During the beginning 400 years of the second age, we had 2 Potentates who did not even remotely have Alessia's blood. The rulers during those 400 years were snakemen from Akivar, and yet there had been no record of MD stomping around or the dragonfires dying off. There's also the Remans, who have no relations to Alessia, and the Septims. The Alessia line had been broken for a long time since the first era.

As some of the other members already said, to wear the amulet, one must be trying to be emperor and have the will to be one, which is why the PC can't wear it, because we're not trying to be an emperor.

I would seize Cyrodiil through sheer brute force and have it terraformed into a jungle as my first Imperial decree. :hehe:

So. The daedra are gods in Oblivion but it seems they can still do what they like if they can manage to get on Mundus. :mellow:

:turtle:

Read the topic.

I don't think the Potentate wore the Amulet, since Tiber Septim recovered it from Reman's tomb.
[/nitpick]

Reman I WAS the Amulet of Kings. Well, at the least he had it embedded in his head. And Reman II was the guy who started the whole lighting the Dragonfires thing. Reman I was born from the land itself, man. Groovy.

As for the Potentates, Red Tower was still standing at that time, so that might have reinforced the barrier enough that the Dragonfires could have gone unlit.

Also, the Alessian Emperor's weren't born from Alessia, they were elected apparently, or something like that. Oblivion screws so many things up.

Given the Alessian Empire was run by a religious order, and the fact that Alessia did it with a bull, I'm not surprised.

So how did the tower work before the dragonfires?

Well, with the Alessian emperors, I have no clue at all. Probably has to do with the Alessian Reformation, and how Red Tower was still standing. With Reman I, he was Cyrodiil incarnate, with the Amulet of Kings within him, so that acted a sort of Dragonfire, likely. And then then the other Reman's lit the Dragonfires.

See, this is why I kinda don't like Oblivion. It really makes it confusing on the issue of "what happens when there was no one to light the Dragonfires a while back?"

One more reason why oblivion massacred lore