I guess the most logical explanation (beyond my ingenius Tiber Septim theory) is that Mankar Camoran is part of the Camoran Dynasty lineague - especially since he's believed to be the descendant of the Camoran Usurper. However, I'm not sure about the specifics of the Amulet. Can all nobility wear it, or just Septims (born of the dragonblood)?


No. You lose.

Well, it is made of the blood of Akatosh

Is it even known if Tiber Septim was born of noble blood in the first place? I tried looking but couldn't find anything. In any case, I doubt that noble blood itself would be enough to let you wear the amulet. You'd either need to be closely related to the last Emperor, or be chosen in some other way.

Perhaps Talos' apotheosis gave his descendants the 'divine right to rule' that allows them to wear the Amulet, even though they aren't of Allessia's lineage?

It ain't blood folks. With some four thousand years that doesn't work, you'd have to commit genocide before you'd kill all the blood related heirs and then some. So that doesn't work for the plot. At the same time you've got allot people that aren't related to some king taking up the Amulet. Tiber and Reman are examples here, and their follow up lineage is messy so to speak. The third Septim already wasn't a direct descendent from Tiber.

Which makes me wonder why Bethesda even bothered having that prophecy attached to the amulet, did they even bother to look at TES history and realize it doesn't make much sense.

:nono:

That's close to what I was trying to get across, but I think blood does seem to have at least something to do with it. By that I mean that it's passed through a single family, until all close relatives are dead, and then it somehow attaches to another bloodline. I of course realize that the Reman and Septim lines are removed from one another.

Obviously I could be wrong.



That sounds right to me.

Well, in Reman's case, it wasn't so much that he just took the AOK, as much as he WAS the AOK. Or at least had it in him.

Sorry, i was playing with a mod on ( some of these mods make it seem like the game had it already in. )

Yea. I cried my self to sleep there.

Anyway, I get the impression that they were trying to do this thing were you realize that what you've been told isn't the truth.

First with the talk about the Amulet of Kings. It's not just wrong on the account of who can wear it but it's also an Ayleid artefact. The Remanada hints at this by calling it Chim-el-Adabal. Second with Mankar Camorans talk about how the Aedra lied about the creation of the World.

Where it went wrong I think is in the delivery method of the first. People take loading screens as a fact, not as subjective information from an age old religion. Especially when it's the sole reason to actually find Martin. Combine it with a general lack of depth and it becomes the unquestionable truth because there is no obvious room for doubt. So it looks like a mistake rather then an intentional thing.

Mankars speech turned out to be a draft, not fact checked or anything, which obviously ruined his convincing power. Again this is probably compounded by the player never having heard much about the Aedra. It's kinda hard to believe you're being lied to if nobody ever told you about what.

In other words, great idea, poor execution. I'd blame the isolated way everything is set up because I wouldn't be surprised if that also reflects how the work is divided. Of course when you've got voiced dialogue and an large scale production, delegation becomes a necessity but it shouldn't end up showing such disconnects.

Well, unless the spelldrinker amulet glitches.


So in order to become the emperor, one must act like an emperor? Sounds familiar...

That's why the Aldmer call him King.

makes sense

...Or maybe it's the same case as with other TES games, and no one really knows the whole truth. The prophecy of the amulet and "joined blood" are vague enough to mean just about anything. It's a leftover from the time of Alessia supposedly, so who could say for sure who it was meant for, or who could wear it.

And in a game like Oblivion, it's hard to ram stuff down the player's throat. You could cruise around not caring about anything but smashing stuff, and obviously Mankar's rambling wouldn't make sense. It's up to you to figure out the meaning.

:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:

At first I was thinking that the amulet attached itself to the closest relatives of the Emperor, but now I'm not so sure. Mostly because of this, which I forgot about:



I guess that could still be explained away if you tried hard enough but whatever. Perhaps it is true that becoming the Emperor is more a state of mind, which would certainly explain why it seems like only relatives can wear it, but also explain Mankar wearing it.

Maybe Mankar Camoren used some special deadric magic telekinisis to hold it there to show off

Wouldn,t he run out of magicka.

Of course.

I guess we just killed him before that lol. :gun:

Never thought about it like that.

Just reread a few things. The Ayleids built White Gold Tower in the shape of The Wheel with Chim-el-Adabal as its stone giving them incredible power over creatia harvesting, creating, and destroying it. So with the tower and their pacts with the daedra they probably are the closest any elf has been to reverting Mundus to before the convention.

Now after Alessia conquers them Akatosh presents her the amulet giving it his blood "made a Covenant that so long as Alessia's generations were true to the dragon blood, Akatosh would endeavor to seal tight the Gates of Oblivion, and to deny the armies of daedra and undead to their enemies, the Daedra-loving Ayleids." so the covenant itself is to protect men from the the ayleids and the daedra, but the wording is whats important, it says her "generations must stay true to the dragons blood", in my opinion that means as long as Akatosh is worshiped by man and they control White Gold and its stone the covenant will be upheld and not dragons blood as in a dynasty or family(otherwise it would have been broken a couple times).

And Camoren as an elf(if hes part ayleid its even more likely) stole the amulet and made a pact with a daedra his goal is to retake the Tower and use the amulet as the key to destroy Mundus, Dagon is really just a means to an end his sphere is destruction what better way to do that than destroy it all.

These are all just random thoughts and I like to delve deeper into it but i gotta go, ill refine it or reword it later.

Couldn't my explanation explain all of this away, though?

I mean, is there anything in lore that says it can't just be a matter of pereption to the would-be wearer? When you try to wear it, it says it slips off your neck. It doesn't burn you alive, it doesn't instantly kill you, doesn't transform you into a cloud of smoke, it's more as if it just accidentally slipped off as you tried to fasten it. That's just what I think.

Good point.

It could, but we don't like to just explain things away, we like to harness them in order to make the world a richer environment.

And no, there's nothing in lore to directly disprove it or any other random theory, what do you want? a line in the book saying "and its not just because of the perception of the wearer"? There is however reasoning for an alternative explanation which coupled with the lack of reasoning behind yours basically serves as proof against it - and a key point is that not having evidence against something does not make it correct. :twirl:

:thumbsdown:
You're doing a very good job of spamming up the thread.
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