Why does Martin get to save Cyrodiil in the end and get the credit for it, yet it was my character who has fought hardest and he doesn't get the credit, doesn't defeat the main enemy, and doesn't get a decent reward?

Why don't you just use the other thread?

And for that matter, there's not much in your current question that the lore forum can answer.

Because Martin is the last of the Royal Line and technically was the one who summoned Akatosh. Plus, you get named the CoC.

Because they want to refer to the main hero with voice acting

1. You get credited as Champion of Cyrodiil by High Chancellor Ocato, who goes as far as placing you in a very prestigious order. So that's definitely not true.

2. Because you didn't exactly have the Broadsword of the Moon Reiver and Dagon's protonymic/neonymic on hand to banish him manually. So to salvage the contrived plot, they had to resort to a Deus ex Machina with Martin and the Amulet of Kings.

3. Because whoever set up the Imperial Dragon Armor stats didn't bother to actually scale it to level or make it as strong as ebony/daedric. Just one more demonstration of how Oblivion's main quest was poorly designed.

2.- I dont think it was a Deus ex machina, the entire storyline progression is conceived to get you to the point where Martin and the amulet come into the action.

3.- Think about it, a piece of armor produced in massive amounts for the legions and you expect it to be ebony/daedric? In that case, the starry heart doesnt need a Septim, it needs a kick-ass economist.

Not for the legions no, the armor was supposed to be given only to the members of the dragon order, or something along those lines, i think it said that something like 5 people in all history wore it including the CoC

That is I believe correct. Plus, it's a reward you get for completing the central story in the game, it certainly shouldn't be weaker than items that you can get by killing bandits, which it is.

My guess as to why the player character doesn't get to be the one to banish Dagon, though, at least, the reason from a narrative point of view (as far as the in-story explanation, it's because Martin could use the Amulet of Kings and you couldn't, and there wasn't any other means handy to defeat a Daedric Price that the soon to be named Champion of Cyrodiil had at the time.) is that Bethesda probably felt that having the main character be a chosen one who saves the world from destruction is kind of overused, so they decided to have someone else save the world and have you be the one who helps him get there. The problem is, Bethesda neglected to take into account why, if a story involves a world threatening crisis, it's usually the main character who has to stop it, and failed to provide an extremely good story that didn't have you saving the world. Plus, you STILL do all the work, Martin just sat around, gave you errands, and then went and sacrificed himself at the end (rendering the original purpose you set out for entirely pointless, because while Mehrunes Dagon was stopped, the heir you set out to find went and died, Tamriel is still left without an emperor, and now, there isn't even any heir left to take over the position. Nice job breaking it Martin.) yet he gets all the credit anyway.

Then again, since Elder Scrolls heroes tend to fade into obscurity (With the exception of a few bits of dialog and maybe a book or two referring to their adventures, using their titles of course, so as not to create a canon identity for the characters.) it isn't surprising. But the Nerevarine at least got the credit in his game and only faded into obscurity in the next one.

It's normally worn by the Emperor; Ocato made a special exception for the Champion given the circumstances.

Your reply was good, Selbeth, but Martin wasn't just sitting around; he was researching the Mysterium Xarxes (or else the main quest couldn't have been completed) and he fought at Bruma.

I think part of the reason for Martin being in "Oblivion" was to close out the Septim line with meaning, not just an assassinated emperor and heirs. The devs are through with the Septims, but they at least meant their sacrifices to matter.

Got it, from the imperial library, here's a http://www.imperial-library.info/tsoo/tsoo15.shtml for anybody interested.

You mean swept the doppelganger heirs rumors from Morrowind under the rug and stuffed Geldell, Ebel, and Enman in the refrigerator?

It was really. The entire plot had developed with the intention of having Martin re-light the Dragonfires and become Emperor. Then suddenly because it's too late for that he pulls a superpower out of his [censored] and nukes Dagon. Nobody even knew this was possible. One may wonder how Martin knew it was possible, considering he only had the damned thing for a few hours. It just comes out of nowhere with no real explanation as to why, just as a Deus Ex Machina would.

I remember the doppelganger rumors, but when I played MW I didn't get the feeling the rumors were true; just loose talk from the citizens.

The devs did get rid of the three legitimate sons quickly, at that.

I still find it funny how Uriel's sons, in their fifties, hadn't yet sired any children. My theory is that they were generally withdrawn from the public spotlight, what with all the rumors of treachery and Doppelgangers circulating throughout Cyrodiil.

As for the player's actions (or lack thereof), well...wasn't the hero of Battlespire able to defeat Mehrunes Dagon himself, without any Divine intervention or anything? :stare:

Also, my character is more powerful than most other mortals. I am a little angry at:

1. A horrible reward

2. My mission failed

3. I did all the work, but in the end an illegitimate son and a former daedra-worshipper beats the main antagonist? I thought my character would get a divine item that would help him defeat Dagon. From this, I am wondering if my character is the protagonist, or Martin.

Yeah, but in Battlespire, the hero had Dagon's protonymic and neonymic, coupled with the Broadsword of the Moon Reiver. While those three things could have been used to banish Dagon in the Oblivion Crisis, it wouldn't have stopped the invasion. Dagon's armies could still be guided through the gates via the Mythic Dawn; they don't need their leader to be around to follow already-given orders and a general plan of attack. Then, in at most 30 or so years, Dagon would recover from the Dreamsleeve banishment and retry his manifestation in Tamriel.

That's what makes Martin so influential and what dwarfs the player's achievements. Martin shatters the amulet and brings about the Avatar of Akatosh, but more importantly he redefines or renegotiates the liminal barriers and destroys the foreseeable possibility of Daedric invasion. The player, regardless of how powerful they were, could not bring that about. Even if they had single-handedly banished Dagon, it would not be the end of the invasion, nor would it solve the root of the problem.

Umm...no....there was plenty of daedric assistance in that one. He/she had to use Dagon's protonymbic & neonymic (obtained from two other characters encountered earlier), wielding the Broadsword of the Moon Reiver to sever his anchor, while a Nocturnal seducer provided a distraction. Not to mention you had to wear the Savior's Hide just to approach Dagon without instantly dying. It was a pretty narrow set of circumstances that required taking advantage of problems in Dagon's army to banish him.

In the end, the Hero of Battlespire had this, extreme heaping amounts of luck.

First, I guess I stand corrected on my last post.

Now, despite the argument that the CoC?s actions were futile, the Deus Ex Machina, mankar wearing the amulet and the rest of the Oblivion crap, i still like the end result of the septim line being wiped. In my opinion it would bring a breath of fresh air to future events on TES (At this point I wouldnt like to comment on the coming novel).

Mancar wearing the Amulet makes perfect sense. not because he was a septim, but he was the last desendant of the Remans. they were the emporers before the Septims, and therefore wore the Amulet before the Septims

Martin didn't pull the super power out of his ass, it was instinct.


I think you could have defeated Mahrunes yourself if you had completed The shivering Ilses: one Daedra can fight another one. in fact, in order become Seogorath, the Coc had to defeat a Daedra in combat.

Er... Source? If anything, Mankar's descended from the Ayleids, granting him far more right to Chim-el-Adabal than both the Reman dynasty and the Septim dynasty. Besides, bloodline has nothing to do with it. Anyone who has the true potential to grasp royalty or power can wear the amulet that represents it.

Yes, but the plot required Akatosh to pull a Deus ex Machina in order for the Nine Divines to save face at the last minute. If the daM doG came and banished Mehrunes Dagon instead, there wouldn't be any convenient reason for Cyrodiilians to suddenly get renewed faith in the Nine, now would they?

It appears that the "bloodline" idea is due to the nature of a monarchy; the monarch's descendents usually have the most claim to the throne. And Mankar Camoran was the heir to the ancient Camoran Dynasty.