Admittedly, I don't know all the details and it's probably far too late to complain, but I've come to understand that FO4 will be using a "level-up-as-you-use-a-skill" system, similar (but not identical) to the Elder Scrolls games. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T. STOP. DESIST. RELENT. ABSTAIN. FORSAKE. DENY. FORBID. JUST DON'T DO IT!!

Why the insistence to level up skills (a.k.a. "perks") in this way? I've never seen this implemented without forcing players to grind the skills they want to develop, and THAT svckS. So I ask again, what exactly is the upside to using this system, which is NOT fun, NOT cool, etc..?

"Because it's more realistic!" So is driving to work everyday, but I don't think anyone is going to develop a game about that anytime soon.

So... if the Fallout developers bother to read posts in this forum, can't we just have a pool of points that we distribute into the perks we want to? (And yes, the old school D&D experience points leveling system is still the best, most fun way to increase character levels, let's stop trying to reinvent the wheel, guys).

Thanks for letting me rant, I enjoyed it.

No one knows how it is going to work yet, I suggest ignoring "news articles" and speculative threads about leveling until the game comes out.

I prefer to level up as you use a specific skill. Reminds me of good games like Ultima Online.

You've always leveled up as you used a skill in Bethesda's Fallouts. You received experience from disabling traps, persuading through speech, unlocking doors, or hacking terminals. All of those could lead to you leveling up via using skills, to say nothing of more general ways of killing enemies.

If that's not what you're talking about, I'd ask you to link to where you're getting your information.

https://www.scaniadrivergame.com/en/

Lol. But no, they are not using Skyrim's leveling system. You get levels much like the other titles, then you get a perk at level up. That's it.

omg I hate this leveling..You mean like Skyrim

??

You need Enchant/Smithing/Alchemy up to 100 for EVERY character, but your character will also level up 300 times in the process???

That's not about driving to work everyday. That's a game where your work is driving everyday.

lol

I like the idea of getting better at using guns AS you use guns more.... I am ~not~ fond of thirty picking locks and then suddenly becoming an expert marksman because that's where I chose to spend the generic xp that lockpicking earns me in that kind of system.

That said....

In Skyrim, I wanted to work on my Blacksmithing skill so I could make a really nice weapon.... so I practiced blacksmithing over and over (grinding it)... and I got better at blacksmithing.... but I also increased in overall level.... but my ~combat~ skills were never developed because I wasn't using them at the forge.

I'm sure there's a way to combine these things but no one has done it yet (that we know of - maybe Fallout 4 will do it right!).... because it just makes sense to me that if I sneak a lot, I get better at sneaking. I do not get better at using explosives unless I ~use explosives~... generic xp lets me do one EASY thing, and then miraculously gain skill in some harder-to-learn skill.

If they could un-couple skill improvements from general level, that would help (but then how do they track / determine your level?)

Per above, don't get so upset until we actually KNOW it's fully leveling via skill use. I don't think it is so can you share a link to what specifically led you to believe this?

I tend to think it will be some hybrid type system that will still award XP for Quests, but will also possibly allow for XP to be earned for using perks / skills.

As far as I know, all this is still relatively speculative.

The only issue I have with a pure skill based XP system I have is that it does allow a player to develop highly specialized and potentially gimped character if they focus one very few skills and neglect developing others. Oblivion had this issue and it was quite easy to neglect combat skills while reaching high levels. Combine that with very unforgiving scaling system for enemies (that Skyrim toned down quite a bit) and you could end up with a +30 character that would be wiped out by a few very nasty and well armed Goblins. Congrats! you just spent 30 hours developing a useless character!

EDIT: The gameplay videos clearly show you getting XP for kills, so unless that gets changed, that's certainly different than the ES games.

Even worse.

Because in Morrowind and Oblivion I could exclude Enchant/Smithing/Alchemy from my major skills and grind them up all I wanted and NEVER level up from doing so but ONLY from the chosen major skills... 7 in Oblivion and Morrowind 5 major and 5 minor.

The problem with Skyrim wasn't the xp on skill usage, it was the [censored] tech tree where 80 % of all the upgrades were worthless.

There has been absolutely ZERO evidence that Fallout 4 uses a "level by doing" system.

Given that the combat videos show totally-normal "gain XP when something dies" popups, I somehow doubt that it works like you think.

I don't think I ever had a Skyrim character with 100's in all those skills. But, then, I never did the entirely-unnecessary "recursively combine all crafting skills to make super-OP weapons" thing. Because it wasn't remotely needed.

What was dumb was leveling up in prior games and being able to put points into Energy Weapons when your character had never seen one in their life.

I much prefer the leveling of skills while using them, like in Skyrim. If the skill goes up ... well good, I'm using that skill.

But we don't know yet how to get all the EXP in FO4 yet. But, once we do level (however that's done), we can spend a point on a perk (or even a SPECIAL). But how the EXP is earned ... something more than just killing baddies I hope.

I did it for me once and for One dear to me , He only played it on his laptop where he could not hear and lost interest completely.

On my ps3 he can hear it and I did the grinding for him.. Not that bad but I don't want to level up from doing that is what I'm trying to say.

-edit-

Level up enchant every time.

-edit-

Not sure what super op weapons are.. He never played before..(Only enough to realize the sound bug and lost interest) I wanted him to have Daedric and double enchantments..

Levelling and developing your characters is pretty intrinsic. In FO3 it was skills and perks, here those are tied up together. We'll know more when the game releases. But I think you are suffering from:

F alse

E vidence

A ppears

R eal

If they used a system like Skyrim's Legendary System that allowed you to continue leveling up without having to use skills that you didn't want your character to touch but also didn't cripple your character upon resetting them, I would be happy. But if we can't get something like that, I'd rather just get the exp and let me decide where to dump my skill points/stats/perks.

I've seen one skill-based advancement system (http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/14065/? for Oblivion) that worked well, and a bunch that didn't. The Elder Scrolls games' systems weren't any worse than an old-school level-based advancement system in my opinion, but that reflects more on how much I hate level-based systems than it does on how much I like TES' systems.

That is, indeed, one of my worst fears.

My info came from a news article done on Gamezone, and I hope it's wrong. I wouldn't change anything pertaining to levels/skills/perks from Fallout 3. This forum doesn't give me permission to link it. news/fallout-4-s-leveling-system-is-going-deep-3424235

Fair enough and I hope you are correct, sir.

But I wouldn't mind if it does. I sort of like the idea of experience matters and if someone is spamming it, well...it's a single player game and they've only themselves to answer to.

Either way, I'll see how it plays.

I don't care either way personally.

I prefer the TES system, because I often spend less time grinding to get EXP so I can level up and spend more skill points like I do in Fallout.

But at the same time, Fallout should be Fallout, and the EXP system is really more fitting for Fallout IMO.