I'm hoping that if any of the mods or anyone at Bethesda (who may or may not come here) would take some time to watch this. Please note this is not my opinions, rather like the title of this thread states, It's just a mans niggles with this game.

https://youtu.be/zLptDJdI0L8

If any of you want to post thoughts on this here, please keep it clean.

Good video, and he adresses some concerns about the system, and it has flaws. My wish for skills was that they would develop naturally like in Elder Scrolls. Perks should stay as they are, but more Interesting perks would be nice.

I 100% agree with his comment on the Perks being non-unique, and just skill-boosters.

To me, and I have said this a few times on the this board, the BIGGEST flaw in FO4 is the new SPECIAL system and perks.

I know a lot will disagree with me, and I do appreciate the change away from the skill system to just perks (in that sense I guess I disagree with the video poster) since the skills had effects taking place at 25-point increments, but I would really like to see Bethesda create a system where the traditional skill-system is governed by your SPECIAL stats or left for the equipment being used (IE no extra damage skills for guns), and then create a perk-based system which is very situational, and as the video states, allows you to 'break' the game by allowing you to approach a quest differently.

For example; it would be much better in my eyes if the perk Gunslinger, rather than giving you a damage booster to handguns, gave you skills like:

Rank 1 - Can target enemy guns in VATS to disarm them, and adds a small chance outside of VATS to do so.

Rank 2 - Guns you disarm will also deal explosive damage to the enemy.

Rank 3 - Can target grenades mid-air or in the hands of the enemy to deal significant damage.

etc. etc.

Didn't watch the video, but the comments describing the current issue make sense. I freaking *hate* the current system. In previous fallouts perk selection made a difference, even if a small one. Have a medic skill? Get to patch up some wounded. Great at robotics? Get a new way to solve one or two quests..

As it stands, flat out % damage increasers are not only boring, but pointless. Really, survival nerfs player damage down to .5 of normal. So they now offer perks that increase player damage by 200%? Nevermind legendary items that can buff that more.. So, I can basically only spend perks to lower the difficulty level of a game not giving me issues? I would have loved to see the meeting where someone sold that idea.

On the surface the new system may seem much different, but it really isn't. You still gain skills, and you still get different perks. The only difference is the way you get them now.

and that they have no impact on any quests or dialogue options.

I wouldn't attribute that to the perk system, that is the problem with the dialogue system. The perks we have now could easily have been introduced into dialogue.

I agree with you Akrabra. In Elder Scrolls, you're skills developed as your skill developed.

But it feeds into the issue. Some perks in previous fallout games I got only because of the additional things it added. I am reminded of the game Jenga. They removed one of the supporting pieces of the game, and now the system isnt nearly as pretty as it was.

In the previous games I had to focus on damage as well or get left behind. The perks available were limited and I wasn't "bending or breaking" any rules until some combination of level, skill and stat.

My main issue with F4 is that only charisma can affect dialogue.

I actually really like the new ruleset. They put more thought into those mechanics this time out, than what felt like a shoe-horned attempt in Fallout 3.


But yes, there's no reason those existing Perks in F4 couldn't have had some impact on quests or dialog. (Even attributes would have been a great fit for some potential dialog checks.)


I don't think the system is at fault so much as their implementation beyond the core mechanics.

I find myself agreeing with you the more I think about it. When the kit is released perk checks is something I'd really want.

Now for the wee bit I disagree with, some of the perks combined with legendary drops just flat out break the game. Like explosive mini-guns or shotguns. Then there are the weird legendary items, that should have been under a wild wasteland trait. (Medical fatman, freezing flamer?) But thats slightly off topic

I agree with him 100%.

the new perk system doesnt work much different from skill system, u guys just misunderstanding how the old skill system work. Alot of the perk works as the old skill system work boosting your guns or melee skills.

very good video, but... ^^

I think it's very hard to come up with interesting perks

I remember New Vegas having barely any useful perks, because of the system it has. It hid this, by only letting you take a perk each 2 levels, but you still barely knew what to take, because the perks were all so unnecessary.

The open level cap in 4 and the way you can pick a perk each level actually allows you to pick both types of perks... at least enough, that it doesn't feel 'boring' for me

That′s not completly true. The new system offers you only 1 change at a time while the old system offered you 2 complete different changes at a time.

In New Vegas i could turn up Energy weapons for example and then choose a perk for lockpick, carry ability or whatever or even something that boosts your character completly different beside all these skills. This boostes 2 things with one level up.

In F4 i only get on thing at a time and it almost all situations it gets put into weapon handling or survival stuff like more health or damage resistances.

The changes that have been done are not really required and seem to mostly attract people that don′t want to get too deep into the material how the old distribution system worked.

I got to agree with the majority about the perk system. This whole notation of "ranking up a skill" to be better is kind of....odd. At least with the skill system that Fallout 3/ New Vegas used at least they had a legitimate catch. "Oh you want this perk? have X in a 'Special stat' and make sure Y in your 'Skills' is up to the required conditions" This made me want to do more and more in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

Is it bad for me to say that I simply do not care for mechanics in a game?

I kind of agree with some of the people arguing about the problems, but I also find that even NV had problems with the Skill+Perk leveling system.

The new system is better than the old one, before it was too easy to become a jack of all trades imo.

Erm what? Old system had a maxlevel cap that prevented you from even getting close to that - only with all dlc and raised maxlevel you got very powerful, but stil not a jack of all trades.

The F4 system has unlimited levels - so where will you turn into a jack of all trades now?

Yup essentially lol by the end of the game you will become " John Doctor Who Rambo" lol. That's why i prefer the old system. Because i know that i will have to choose wisely with what perks i can use for my character. And if i miss a perk i want. I either reload and save and pick that one. Or just create a whole new character with the perks that i haven't used at all in my first go around in the game.

still in 3 and NV ^^

you could easily max out all the important skills until level 20

you have to play twice as much in 4, to be able to do that, because of the requirements

the unlimited level system doesn't take away the time you have to play, to achieve a high level

The requirements in 4 are only set cause of the level-steps your enemies level with you. So this argument makes no real difference at all.

And in F4 i could easily get another level around every 40 minutes.....this does not work in nv for real cause of the bigger gaps each level has.

My actual char has level 116 i think...and it was not really a hard way or took long to get there.

both games have bigger level gaps, with each level

vanilla Fallout 3 caps out at ~30,000xp at level 20, which is the same as level 28 in Fallout 4

vanilla Fallout NV caps out at ~66,000xp at level 30, which is the same as level 41 in Fallout 4

I'm 170 hours into Fallout 4 and currently level 60... it really took a long time, to finally have the most useful perks

New Vegas only took 80 hours on the first playthrough, with capping out everything much earlier

I agree with the video, that having 'interesting' perks would be more fun, but the advantage of 4 is definitely that it takes longer to build your character and that it takes longer to become overpowered

I am just going to interject here, and say that neither system is really better than the other. They both can allow you to become OP in different ways. Simply put, this debate is pointless.