I imagine that there will be fewer perks unlockable the higher skill you get... and some or even most might require you to pick up lower skill perks to take so you do not gain anything by "saving" them.

I hope for this...but i still dont think you should be able to save them period....being able to save them and then place them at the end where you like all at once would be like playing an entire games worth of sword slashing in 6 sec.(w/e perk specialization you choose) Kind of destroys the whole progression thing of learning to become better with your skill and gaining new abilities as you become better.

See, that's where I have to ask you... Do you have any idea what it meant to not invest in any perks until level 50?

Because at level 50, you would have practically played the entire game without any perks whatsoever. Level 50 is the soft level cap. This means weeks and perhaps months of real life playing, with likely nearly all the major quests done in the process. And most of the major skills up to 100.

There is little "advantage" in picking perks at that stage, as there is literally nothing left other than bragging rights for finishing the whole game under the "no-perks" personal challenge. And there is certainly no "destroy replayability" here. If you are good enough play the entire game without perks, then it really doesn't matter about replaying with a new character; you would breeze through the game no matter what new character you make.

Your sort of missing my point entirely....the whole point is to progress through the game and work towards gaining the abilities as you gradually become stronger and hone your skills that you use the most. Thats the consequence of how you play the game, your perks would be dictated by your playstyle(what skills you use most).

Personally i hope its something like...youre allowed to get one perk per level....so if you hold off spending them then you have to level 1 level past 50 for every level you skipped spending a perk, like if you waited to start at 5 then youd be lvl 55 once you recieve all 50 perks. Something like that i dont know. I just hope they with the whole progressing aspect of it.

Being able to save them would be avoiding a "chasing the +5s" situation.

Seems like you unlock a perk by leveling a skill, but only get to choose the perk at level up. At least that's how it sounds to me. So if you need a marksman skill of 55 to get the perk you want once you get to 55 in marksman it is now unlocked. But if you are still only 2/3rd's of the way to the next level you will have to wait until then to select it.

That hasn't been confirmed, but that is likely the case. Have a look at the Destruction star pattern. http://nerdtrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Skyrim-Screenshot-Magic-Schools.jpg You can see 3 different stars in that pattern. There is the bright yellow star (seen on the bottom one, 2 on the level above on the right, and 1 on the elvel above that in the middle), a dimmer white star (on the second level on the left, and 3rd level on the right), and very dim pink/putple stars (the two top levels, and the nex level dosn on the left).

The yellow ones will be the perks that you have taken (you can see the white connecting lines between them). The white ones are likely perks that are available, but that you don't have. And the purple ones are ones that you currently cannot take because your skill is too low (above the middle line), or you don't have the perk below it (3rd level up on thei right; you don't have the second level so third is off-limits).

Exactly where those skill limits are, we don't know. This also doesn't show if you have to take perks at level up or not. However, there is no real way to "game" the system by holding out. You will still have to take the perks below the top ones first.

I think Todd says that if you look at the skill tree and see that there is a perk you want concerning the sword skill, you simply choose to use your sword as much as possible to the next level up (or whatever level you need). I do not think he says something more than that.

I can't get more out of it. We need more info.

I hope that this is how it is.

The opposite seems to be the truth. Going from 90 to 91 will take longer to attain, but it will have a greater effect on how much goes toward leveling up. So if you imagine your level progression as a bar, leveling up a low skill from 5 to 15 (10 skill points) might only fill that bar 40%, but leveling a skill from 90 to 91 (one skill point) might fill the bar by the same amount (40%). Not exact numbers as we don't know yet, but it's the general idea as far as I understand it.



I would agree. I would assume even if you have a high enough skill to unlock a perk you would still need the preceeding perks in that line to select the one you want. Otherwise why take the lower perks? This might be a hit against saving perks as well. Why save them if you are going to have to take the lower perks to get the the higher, most powerful ones first.

I thought they had been fairly open about the fact that you need to take the lower skill level perks in order to get the better ones... Did people actually think they could save their perk points just to take the top tier perks from each skill? Wow.

Not me. I only want to save perks to delay my final decision of my character build.

Only those who are against saving perks are using the strawman argument that it is "unfair".

And those who say it breaks immersion? Just pick your perks as soon as you are able. Your game is actually easier that way. If I want to have a tougher time playing my game by delaying perks, that is no one's business but my own.

Yes but in your theory you just ruined the skill progression itself. Getting better at skills is what should make you deadly. Any and all of these perrks should be for show or uniqeness. Not to be adding more and more and more damage(this is a terrible design for a game to begin with) to your every action. Personally i wouldn't save them all at the end. I would want to be able to hoard them until I wanted to use them every few levels. That way I don't get stymied into picking perks that I don't want.

I thought you have to choose one of the three? If health does get an increase every level it probably won't be as much of an increase as selecting it would be.

One of the interviews Todd confirmed that you do get a slight boost in health before making your selection into the 3. Just throwing this out there as well. Might possibly get a little mojo/health/stamina boost for slaying dragons.

because you become more talented at something the more you do it? i didnt say it had to do more damage, YOU said that. You just learn new skills(such as the slow motion bow). As todd says the perks are directly related to your skills(the more you use your sword the better sword perks you get). Theyre directly related. I fail to see how working at and getting better at a skill which in turn allows you to learn new abilities(perks) in that discipline isnt progression. Seems like the definition almost, maybe im crazy though

My point is that while you may get better at a skill but if they are truly following the "perk tree" or "skill tree" you are already destined for roadblocks. Let's say you want that special "leaping attack" perk. My concern is that you are forced to wade through the mindless stat modifier perks that really have no meaning. The leaping perk should just be a leaping perk. Not insta death to the enemy. I guess some folks confuse being able to save skills to put where you want them relatively when you want them (I think it should be level dependant as well as skill dependant) as some kind of systemic unbalance. It really isn't. sure skill dependant powerful perks should be at a max skill and level select. But I fail to see how having the ability to save perks to use them when you want them "unbalances" the game for the people who seem to have no self control. It is really confusing to me. Why would someone want a totally linear experience in such a great open world game that allows so much freedom.

wait, what interview did this come from?

i didnt see anything about a new interview...

it is one of the more recent entries. Some areas are way open to interpretation. This hot topic probably being the big hitter. Not a lot of solid new info though

The main argument against saving perks is not "it will unbalance characters so that they are too powerful" but rather "it will make using perk points unattractive so people end up not using them" which would totally ruin having them in the first place.

I missed some stuff... what interview? link please, anyone?

I never said anything about insta death or unbalance...its almost like youre just arguing with yourself because all the points your making have nothing to do with what im saying.

You have yet to really respond to any of my points, you just keep making up things no one has said to argue with yourself about.

Also i highly doubt 90% of the perks as you say will by "meaningless, useless, and mindless."

Also i dont exactly see how you think perks are linear, as todd said "you see a cool sword perk you like, you use your sword more". Theyre giving you the choice to do ANYTHING you want. sounds linear to me.

Why would perks be unattractive?
I WANT perks. I just want to make sure I made the right decision before doing something permanent to my character. If perks are unwanted then we wouldn't be having this argument.

By being able to save perks:
Pro: I could delay deciding which perks I want until I am sure of my chosen playstyle.
Con: I would be pathetically weak for my level for every perk I haven't yet picked.

I see this as a fair trade off.

And those who argue that I would play to level 50 with no perks at all; that's silly. If I don't need perks to get to level 50, I wouldn't care where I alocate the perks at all. Only those who want to nerf themselves for a challenge would deliberately avoid all perks.

I hope there will be at least a couple of interesting perks that we get as quest rewards or from some other means, like reading a unique tome or something.




http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1189517-part-02-todd-howard-interview-norwegian-magazine-gamerno/

If you do not know what you want to do with the character, you will not know what to do with it. I do not see how pooling perks will help with that. I doubt you will be gimped for using or not using any of the perks.