There are only three races. The fourth one died out thanks to the homicidal snake people.

Edit: Loreseeker and ThatOneGuy have put this argument into the best terms that it can possibly be.

Not that they don't have things to offer. But you're missing the point. Tamriel is the limelight. In terms of the overarching fragmented plot that is TES, Tamriel is where the center stage is (from both in-game and out-of-game perspectives). It's where everyone wants to be. It is the start of everything, and hypothetically the end of everything. It's called Dawn's Beauty for a reason. Adamantine landed there for a reason. It receives so much mythical attention and trouble for a reason. Therefore, in the sense of the direction TES as a story, it's not going to go off and explore the tangential cardboard backdrop that is Akavir.


Even 50 years after the Oblivion crisis, Tamriel is going to be in a daze after that ordeal. They're not going to have the military wherewithal to attempt that challenge. Ionith was founded at the complete apex of their military form. And they were slaughtered. 6 whole Legions made up the expeditionary force. A small handful of survivors returned, sans Emperor. Different tools? Tamriel doesn't progress in terms of technology in a relatively quick way (arguably at all). So, same tools. Different knowledge? That handful that survived were the leftovers at Ionith, not the front of the line. What knowledge that came back was rudimentary, at best, and not significant enough to provide tactical advantage for future attempts.

And besides, where's the motivation? Going off of the point from (1), what does Akavir truly have that Tamriel does not, other than the ability for an Empire to claim sovereignty on two continents? I contest that a continent enmeshed in its own dire recovery is going to go sailing off to Akavir in hopes of conquest.


But the point of a present is to eventually receive it. The point of Akavir is to provide the base illusion that something is out there beyond the cardboard scenery. In the case of Akavir, the satisfaction or payload is in the mystery itself, and removing the mystery removes the satisfaction of mystery. Satisfaction of freedom of imagination over neutering said satisfaction by actually fleshing it out. Ask yourself, if Akavir is fully fleshed out, if all its depths are plumbed and laid bare, then what will then fulfill the mysterious backdrop role that Akavir currently holds?

And even if Akavir were to be fleshed out somewhere down the road, it still remains that Akavir is not ready to be fleshed out; attempting to do so now would result in a more shallow world than what it could be. As stated:

Add bits and pieces of lore over a few games, build things up, and then execute Operation: Akavir.

EDIT: Displacement of quote tags; fixed.

But I need to keep asking: What's the point if you never see it? Ideas are great, but if they're never applied and made to live out their potential, then they're pretty useless.

Its the Christmas present that never comes.



I will agree that it might be a good idea to talk about Akavir in something other than books so that people that don't read them can look forward to it.



I realized that when I made this topic. Just said TESV for some reason.

Because what Akavir does for the mystique and unknown quantity of the world, as well as how it allows for the imagination to fill in the blanks, is invaluable. It's not a present because you are never meant to receive it. The gift is the mystery itself, not the form the mystery takes.

I'll ask again, what's going to happen if Akavir is fully fleshed out and its mystery is peeled away? While the exploration would be fun for a while, that overarching sense of mystery present in TES would be gone; what would step in to reintroduce that feeling? And because that loss would be felt, because something would have to step in to reintroduce that feeling, that further underscores the point that Akavir's appeal is not Akavir itself.

I couldn't resist logging back on.

I don't think he is seeing our point.

Akavir is a land of mystery. It will only be a disappointment if manifested. The mystery surrounding it is its beauty.

TES doesn't have a central story. Its a bunch of stories that are set in the same setting. Things happen in these stories that strongly affect the setting, but there's no central plot for it veer off of.

If someplace else in the setting has something to offer, then there's no reason not to explore it.



But there are definitely different leaders, and probably different circumstances. Its not tough to buy the right diplomatic and military minds succeeding where others have failed. It happens.



Just like with any other plot point, they'd have to create motivation.



The satisfaction in mystery comes from speculation, and the satisfaction of speculation comes from pursuing the mystery, and the satisfaction from pursing the mystery comes from the thought of eventually learning about it in some way or another.

Mystery and speculation without a conclusion isn't satisfying. As I keep saying, it just fizzles out.



Already agreed. It can use a bit of build up. It wouldn't necessarily require several games, though.

...Anyways, I'm going to cut it off here for the night. Maybe I'll check back tomorrow, so say what you have to say.

And nowhere did I say that TES had a central story. However, it does have an overarching plot in the sense of its world. All the World's a Stage, after all, and in TES, that's the literal truth. Despite its open-world focus and sprawling disjointed collection of stories, histories, and tales, TES still is a story. What is a vast collection of stories but a story itself? And the current conditions of TES as a story (the established metaphysics of the world, the extreme significance that Tamriel holds, the purposely Tamriel-centric viewpoint the story exhibits) make a game set in Akavir rather clashing and very unlikely.


Plausible, I suppose. Though the advantage is certainly against them. I remind you of the current state of militaristic Tamriel, and that the previous (and only) attempt wiped out nearly 6 whole Legions (while the Empire was militarily at the top of their game).


And created motivation has such a bad taste to it. Especially motivation that has such large-scale effects. If an explanation is completely contrived for the sake of inclusion, it stands out pretty badly.


Except that you still assume that the object of desire is Akavir, through the shroud of mystery. However, this is not the case. The object of desire is mystery purely for mystery's sake; Akavir itself has little to do with it.

So, shadow_Hiei, basicaly what you're saying is that gamesas will not manage to make known provinces (of which we know some interesting lore and background) exciting, however, they will manage to do this for Akavir (of which we basicaly know nothing). From what I've read in your replies to other province setting, you haven't read much about them, have you?

All Akavir has to over is that we think it is interesting and exciting. That is because there is very little information about it and loads of blank to fill in by your imagination. However, we know that unexplored Tamrielic provinces are interesting and exciting from what we have learned about it in lore. And it still has many gaps for the imagination to fill in.

So, what I'm saying is - they told us there are vampire snakemen on Akavir. That's cool. They told us there are lizardmen who live in harsh environment which is deadly for other races. Also cool. Then they described it in more detail. And it is even more cool. I don't know how exactly snakemen would be cool in TES game, but I assume it would, however, I know how Black Marsh would be cool in TES game and Bethseda still can surprise us with plenty of extra.

Plus, game in Akavir will take away the sense of mystery which we won't be able to get back

If you guys don't even want to see Akivir, don't worry about who's conquering it.
:)
People fear what they don't understand.

Trust, Bethesda is definitely GOING there and once you've seen it, had the chance to study it, and left it, it should STILL be mysterious. They just map everything out in those Libraries so people, you know, think they know everything. Here we bring into context the region of which the knowledge concerning it hasn't reached us, and oh, its the Sacred Wierd Place... Keep it depicted, as such...

I've only played Oblivion, but I look for every sign of the Akiviri region I can find on here!

that would be a good idea but we don't have enough lore about Akavir and other things too , heck we don't even know if they are still around I think

The Elder Scrolls Ledgends II: Akaviri Camp... Then no one has to deal with it if they don't want to. Those games are small and short, not near as big as a large one, and at the end Bethesda can make: This was completely canon.

If you don't want a medieval setting, then there's really nothing that fantasy can do. If that's the sort of generalisations that are used, then there's little that anyone can do that's original.

There's no telling how many different civilizations are over there either. Sounds like that was an allied victory over the Emperor over there at Ionith. Like they used a decoy army. I mean if you throw TES5 in the middle of a genocide what will that do? People eating people?

Plus man Bethesda needs to quit jamming everyone's heads with hoo haa Dynasty Orders. It would be relaxing to visit the Akiviri. Get involved with another government and submit to a different set if rules and stuff.

...Or...I'd like to see a game set where actually, there IS no rulership. Only people living in peace, see where structure originates. Its not only born from chaos.
After some, slaughter...

A beginners perspective although I must add
I can't really see Any of the provinces being exactly boring

Sounds to me like the interior of Black Marsh, parts of Valenwood, or the wilder tribes of Elsweyr.....

There's only one minor problem with your "Christmas present" anology: it's still a long way before Christmas. Give Bethesda a couple more installments in the series to properly "set up" the Akavir scenario. Judging from the sadly deserted and ruined condition of the landscape in TES IV, it's going to be a long time before the Empire re-settles Cyrodiil, much less goes anywhere else.

Morrowind wasn't generic middle ages. Neither have been all the final fantasies. Or warcraft.
They were pretty original in their own rights.

Edit: Nor was Chrono Trigger. One of the most revered rpgs in the gaming world. It was extremely successful and used something other than middle ages for it's setting.

Dude, there are so much mystery and lore on Tamriel that we havent even seen in Tes yet, and you want to go to another continent?

Who me? Can you go into Morrowind from Cyrodil? Why put emphasis on it then? Maybe it would show Final Fantasy the real deal then. Completely different environment.

I have played RPG's since http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20071210/Commodore_64_540x359.JPG and only FF games had dragons I came across.

*thinking of forgotten RPG's with dragons in it*

Well, Might and Magic had it. Usually several

To me, part of what makes a world alive is loose ends. It feels "real" if you don't learn everything about everything, because in real life you don't learn everything about everything.

If ALL mysteries are explained and wrapped up at the end of the day, the game feels like a cardbord setting in a box rather than a true world. Plus, there'd be nothing for people to debate on the Lore forums.

I just think shadow_Hiei that you're investing a little too much into the idea that Akavir will "sizzle out". Bethesda does reveal information to us every time they write a piece of lore or create another ES installment. So they do throw us a bone every now and then to give some insight, but also support the mystery. So the curtain is being drawn back, if ever so slightly, but only to discover another curtain behind it. Am I making sense?

Despite that being said, everything as said before still stands as my opinion now.

I personally believe that the Akavir people are not exactly 'monkeys', 'dragons', 'snakes' and so on. I believe that they may exhibit certain tendencies of those animals or use them as part of their armour and their look in general and thus the people of Tamriel may have seen them as synonymous over time but I digress, this is neither the time nor place for this discussion.

As for the topic at hand, I'd prefer they flesh out the parts of Tamriel before they go anywhere near Akavir, perhaps add some Akaviri lore or have some isolated contact that generates some interest but keep well away from the continent and all the stuff that goes down there. My main point is that Tamriel still has a lot to be fleshed out and to a lot to offer.

Nah, they can leave that empire at home. An entirely new land and political heirarchy, or at least someone else in charge for once instead of imperials (I'm talking entire empire wise)

Oh yeah, thanks. I can't believe I forgot, I have the game.

Well, in any case, it's not going to be happen in the next game. The empire is without an heir to the throne and the council is trying to hold it together; not conquering new land.