100% agree with you. I was first and foremost a TES fan and I couldn't wait for TES V to come out. I like Skyrim, I like the world, I like most of the quest lines, but mainly I love to explore the world and I do love the dragons, at least they look like I always imagined dragons.

However, and it's a big however, I really dis-like (hate? strong word lol) that my actions do not matter in the Skyrim world. There are NO consequences.

Then I discovered Fallout 3 and after that New Vegas and I was blown away, by the karma system, by the factions and that my choices made a difference. Even more so in NV, now that is the ultimate RPG for me. A huge world to explore and my actions matter.

Probably my biggest disappointment in Skyrim and its camp-followers, is how they all shrug their shoulders at the obvious shortcomings and outright awful things about many aspects of the game, and just have this attitude of "oh, TES has never done that kind of stuff well", or "they've never done well-written, complex quests with multiple choices, so I don't expect it from them", or "balance isn't one of their strongpoints, never has been", or this, or that, or any of a dozen different excuses and apologies for heaps of lousy, lazy, careless and rushed game making.

I swear I have never seen such a deep, unwavering and blind acceptance, by so many people in any game's community, of so much being wrong and/or missing from their game(s). Instead of saying "yeah, you're right, if they at least tried to do those things well too, this would truly be the most awesome game ever made, and would take the game of the year for the next five years without any competition, just due to its complete and incontrovertible awesomeness"... instead, they say "Oh that stuff has never been done or done right in the TES series, so you just shouldn't expect it, or even ask for it." No, you should be happy to be served slop, as long as it's mixed in with so much purty scenery.

I just can't even comprehend the mindset it takes to accept and just svck it down like that and not want (nay, demand) a game to try to be the best it can be, instead of blithely accepting so much blatant and unnecessary institutionalized mediocrity. Stand up for yourselves, demand better, don't settle for big heaps of crap stirred into the cookie dough in place of the chocolate chips. You'll get better product when you don't just roll over and be a mindless herd of eternally unquestioning sycophants.

Crikey.

I played Fallouts first, TES second. And my heart has always leaned more towards the Fallout games. Just the universe in general makes me so happy to be in. And yes, its always after you play a different game for a while then go back that you notice the little things that make it all worth it.

Skyrim is amazing.

You're dependable, and predictable. Always amazing qualities in a poster.

It's amazing if its the only game you've played.

Nope. It's one of the most amazing games ever. Daggerfall is my favorite though.

Why?(I am saying this in a completely genuine way)

Sure, at the beginning, I could see how Skyrim drew a crowd, but as the time went by and all the redundancies and flaws came to light, I was also appalled by the acceptance and the excuses even hard core TES fans made for the game. First of all, they went totally the opposite direction of any TES game I've played. I really liked the way you leveled in Morrowind and Oblivion, that was TES style, why would they change that? I really like the world and the immense Lore behind the games, yet, I don't know why, but Skyrim appears only to be surface deep when it comes to History and Lore. The quests feel rushed, I also think it's silly to have quest locked dungeons. The spawn rate of dragons gets annoying after a while, the comments of NPCs are beyond annoying. A lot of things are forced onto the player and yea, I'm actually sad that the game I had high hopes for turned out rather mediocre.

At least that is my opinion and trust me, I'm a die hard TES fan, well make that Fallout Fan now! =p

I still think that Skyrim has a beautiful world, but I think Beth focused too much on the console aspect (well not so much in the PS3 case lol poor PS3 players) and they also were rushed by that silly deadline of 11.11.11 For me, a 100% PC gamer, the game UI is definitely a console port.

Now all that said, Blackreach is still one of the coolest places in a TES game. A bit empty yea, *sigh* So much wasted potential in a game.

This, 100% .
I didn't really 'get' NV on launch, but with time I started seeing it for the classic it is, and now prefer it over Skyrim.

Bingo.

Your guys are right, while I do love Skyrim I do believe the game would be so much better with more moral choices. I have said that since I finished playing FO3. FNV just further proves my point. Even though overall I believe Skyrim is superior I am not afraid to say things I didn't like about the game or that I thought it should have done better.

You know what I hate about the Skyrim moral choice system (you know, the microscopic amount that exists), and love about New Vegas? You can't be truly evil without being a total psychopath who kills everything in his way. In Skyrim, you're evil the moment you join an Assassin's Guild with no backstory or insight on who you targeted. Or you're evil if you help a Daedric Prince with no regards as to the actual intentions of that Daedric Prince.

In New Vegas, if you help the Powder Gangers, you're still not fully evil. You can still talk to the Gangers and realize that their actions were a direct result of NCR. But the main factions are what really make New Vegas shine: Can you really say that NCR is good if it pushes out people from their lands, abuse Freeside locals, and one of their Colonels order you to kill every major faction that opposes NCR?

Or can you say that Caesar's Legion is 100% evil if they bring civilization to the wasteland and have an actual theory behind them that's not, "Because Caesar's evil." Every faction is open to interpretation. Heck, even the Enclave is open to interpretation, even if they are the "Evil" faction. In New Vegas, they lost everything and all they want is to go out with a bang.

Not to mention every faction represents a style of government, each with its flaws and triumphs. Except Independent...which can either mean anarchy or whatever you want to be.

Skyrim is only good for it's world design and exploration. The story is bland and characters and companions feel meaningless. I don't feel connected to the story or my own companions., I don't give a damn. Bethesda's strong suit seems to be world design and making things pretty.

I think I've ranted about this before; but there is no motivation for me when I play Skyrim. They bragged about the numerous quests and locations and everyone was excited, yet I don't want to go to another bandit cave for the millionth time and do the same layout of 'enter, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, boss, reward, leave'. I'm swimming in Septims and could probably take on an army of Giants with the loot I have. Skyrim get's repetitive fast. There's very little of that in New Vegas.

So even with the pretty looks about the world -- I don't want to trek across fighting bears and Dragons every step, only to help some poor soul who left their book in an ancient dungeon. Maybe some people just like to keep busy and roleplay, that's fine. But I get extremely bored and have no motivation.

This summarizes what killed Skyrim for me pretty well: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422

We were so close but, truly, I am amazed this didn't turn into yet another Fallout 3 hate thread.

Why did he say that the Markarth questline was the worst? That was the only quest that I actually liked to some degree. There were some real choices involved and the writing wasn't bad imo.

Not sure, I've never done that one.

Nvm, I found the reason (well, the most likely reason) for his hatred. I guess that quest was bugged to hell for most people to the point where it just seemed really stupid; e.g., someone who was scripted to die would end up not dying, thus making the whole quest stupid and nonsensical.

I'll confirm this, the quest is buggy beyond recognition. I ended up killing both the Forsworn leader, his lackeys, and the guy who wanted him dead, and pissed off Markarth's guards with no hope to surrender or wait it out. Suffice to say I reloaded and never tried it again (gave up the whole game soon after anyway). I don't think it's a bad quest though, and I do not agree with the above article on Thieves Guild since it focuses entirely on nitpicking bad sides. It was indeed bad, but not that bad. When someone reviews a game or a part of it but focuses on listing only bad sides with absolutely nothing positive, you know he's not being objective.

If only Bethesda can marry the open world (exploration) feel of Fallout 3/Skyrim with the writing/depth of Obsidian's Fallout New Vegas, you'd have one hell of a game.

Nice boobs.

Exploration is better in New Vegas. Not Fallout 3. The Mojave is amazing.

I also didn't appreciate New Vegas as well until I played Skyrim. The writing of New Vegas spoiled me, so when I played Skyrim, I was all ...

"why the hell am I doing this quest again? There was only the one option of dialogue to choose from, and it was a single sentence. Don't really care I guess, might as well just kill these viking zombies while I blindly follow this quest arrow to get this thingy ma-jig and bring it to some guy, so he can tell me I need to kill another guy and bring him another thingy ma-jig."

Not really a whole lot of motivation. In New Vegas I was excited to get revenge on that slippery bastard Benny, it drove my courier. It was personal. Skyrim is none of that, which I really can't fault Beth for. Obsidian just has a very talented writing staff. Skyrim may be the "bigger" game, but New Vegas gets more playtime, because of the sheer number of times I've played it, and I'm not even done yet.


Smooth.

Ok, ok. I'll be that guy. There's is an invisible wall in the NW corner of the map on your way to Jacobstown, I believe. That said, every other barrier felt natural.