Continued discussion from the previous thread.

OP from thread #1

Seeing the way thread #1, I question if it deserved a new one. All it was by the end was 'FALUT NEDS TEH SKYRIM MECHNNIKS!' 'NUH UH!' 'UH HUH!'

Unless I'm mixing this thread with the other one. I stopped caring about this board eons ago.

And yet here you are....

I do agree with you though, this thread was pretty much just useless bickering over a simple issue. Fallout should stay Fallout and TES should stay TES. It allows people to choose between the different systems, and it keeps two games (that are from two different genres of RPGs) separate.

Let me rephrase that. I stopped caring about the average thread. Most of them are negativity, old bashing new, vice versa, and just general ugliness.

There are a few redeemable threads coming up these days though, always a fresh breath to me.

Ah, I understand you now. And yeah, I agree, there have been quite a few interesting threads in the past month... but then again, I only find them interesting because I enjoy a good political argument, and I know that some people find those threads to be useless bickering (oftentimes they are ) When Fallout 4 is announced, these boards will explode with people again, but I'm not sure if that will be a good thing or a bad thing.

Anyways, have you ever considered writing another fan-fic? I just started reading The Gem of the Mojave, and I'm liking it a lot.

I'd agree if it weren't for the occassional waves of Skyrim players who show up saying "woah I used to hate it when you guys would whine about Skyrim svcking, but now I tried New Vegas and holy crap you were right."
I wanna see more games like New Vegas, that means it needs to be popular and in demand. Our whining is actually getting somewhere in that regard, and hence I will continue to do so.

I liked both games but I found the two factions of Skyrim to be boring and dull. Skyrim is nothing if you remove the engine. Another thing that makes me cringe when I play that game is the voice acting. EW!

Skyrim's engine isn't that great to be honest, still buggy as hell, still pretty limited, and the graphics it produces are only okay.

That being said I will take Creation over Gamebryo any day of the week.

Indeed, Skyrim is more like a "go wherever you want and be the king of the world from level 1-100" nature walk sim. It has a story, and quests, but they are extremely tedious and boring.

I finished the thieves guild quest, and while that seemed to have the best story compared to the other quests I did, it was over pretty quick from a story point of view, and the most time was spent grinding out the Faction city fetch quests.

Extremely lifeless quest design.

Skyrim is like a badly put together but brilliantly marketed dessert in a high end restaurant.
Fans discussing it are like groups discussing said dessert in a surreal restaurant scene.

The dessert in question looks brilliant.. 20 or so people divided in three groups (thus 21 is more logical )
You and your group are offered the first taste.. Well first opinions: It looked great from afar up close.. you can see that making up the desserts was a bit hasty, and wait is that a hair...? no... it looked like one.. but really.

The first bite is enjoyable, the second bite.. you realize it's a bit sweet... , the third bite .. naah this isn't your desert... As you look around to other two groups who were offered this special desert, you notice a few things.
A few will love it and go into rage mode wondering why others don't agree this is the greatest desert ever.. Others will claim it is exactly like the restaurants previous desert but missing trivial ingredients ... You and others who are actually voicing concerns about the bland taste are either laughed at by the first group or misquoted by the second in stating that the previous deserts in this restaurant were superior..

To make matters worse the first group starts arguing that the bland taste is to be expected because people in general will love that... and that they should at the thick strawberry sauce to the restaurants other tasty dessert Foile d'out.

The second group shouts at you and makes claims about group one...Don't believe them previous deserts M'orrowinde and Creme de l'oblivon were so much better..
You wonder..why are people raving about one group of deserts.. don't these people get there is a large variety of other deserts with taste combinations which are more risque but so much tastier... and offer a much more varied taste experience...
If you explain this to group one... They will claim you are just throwing negativity at patisserie chef Howards great work.

To your amazement group two will use some of your arguments to say they basicaly agree with group one and use it to argue the very similar desert was superior in taste.
And finaly there is you... it was tasty the first five minutes, got boring pretty fast and now you are disgusted by its taste..

You go back to ordering the bonbons... sure it's all chocolate but now you have choice in taste and you can pick your favorite or choose entirely different ones..

The "let's bash on Skyrim thread." Yay!

There will always be a divide between the Fallout and TES players. So let's keep them separate and hope that Bethesda doesn't mold them into the same game. The last thing I want is a TES game with guns.

RIght now i hate the "latest" bunch of TES fans cluttering the skyrim board who don't accept criticism..
Yucckk.

I can appreciate fans of TES explaining why they like freeroam and how they love grinding running in Oblvion and Morrowind to up their endurance.. I get that... It's not my kind of game but at least these fans are passionate about it..

Right now there is a sickening trend of devoted fans who feel Skyrim is the greatest game eeeeevaaah.... because .... it's the greaatest game evaaah... Just blind, unbalanced fact free idiolism.. and this the sort of counterarguments one can observe frequently..:
1. The guild quests are too short.... There are radiant quest which give you hours of extra playing time (generic fetch quests)
2. The radiant quests are generic... You are not rollplaying... (detailing basically that you don't have any imagination and you svck) Since when do I need to imagine game content??
3. The stories are really banol or flatout illogical.. Bethesda streamlined the freeroam so you can roleplay more... you don't have to care about story anymore (wtf??? , honestly this argument is used more than once when people complain about the dragons or the mq)
4. Same argument.. Skyrim is a product produced for broader audiences ...wait are we saying the masses are stupid... (inherent answer yes)
5. I get bored.. I never got bored playing TES x... So you complain after playing game for x hours .... ha ha you.. etc..
6. Detailed explanation showing Story, design or mechanic is simplified or illogic... Stop bashing Bethesda.. and my favorite.. why don't you design the game..
7. People explaining that nerfing element x from a previous game was a bad design choice... explaining why they enjoyed it better.. Nostalgia.. go back to morrowind.., we live in 2012... etc. etc..

If there is any reason my dislike of Skyrim (as a stand alone game I would say it's a decent and good looking freeroam game I can still enjoy)has grown exponentially... it is the way in which its latest supporters are raining down on people..

I don't frequent the Skyrim forums anymore but if you find any juicy responses to valid criticisms could you PM them to me?

I'm currently vising the TESO forums, and man are those fans twitchy about it.
And it's so ironic yknow.

We older Fallout fans who played the first two games and held them dearly didn't get to keep our Black Isle, we didn't get to keep our old Interplay, all we got, is Bethesda's Fallout and their plans for the future.

The Elder Scrolls fans (and these are (from what I've seen) generally people who like Skyrim) complain like there's no tomorrow about TESO, despite the fact that BGS isn't developing it and will continue to develop TES# games.

Fallout fans, lost Black Isle and real Interplay and got Bethesda instead.
TES# fans, gets a spin-off from a different developer AND gets to keep their original developer.
Fallout fans lost their game formula and got a new one which is... Debatable whether it's good or not.
TES# fans get to keep their game formula, +1.

I dunno if the right word is irony but seeing them freak out is hilarious.

This right here. I feel the same way you do. I too wonder why all of a sudden I, the player, need to imagine game content. Right now, in the Fallout 3 forum, they are trying to figure out where the airplane parts for Megaton came from.

It is not our job to come up with game content!

Skyrim was a step backward in game design from what New Vegas showed us which makes it more egregious that they never received real compensation for their efforts. If the next Fallout is anything like Skyrim I fear a great injustice will have been done to the franchise. It's just extremely shallow and put together in a way that makes all of your choices feel meaningless, from who you kill to who you marry. None of it particularly impacts anything else because it's set up to let you use the same character to do absolutely everything.

Jeez I hope you never play Fallout 3 then.

Completely agree with this thread. I still hang around the Elder Scrolls forums, but I think New Vegas has converted me into a Fallout fan. Pretty much every aspect of the game is more enjoyable than Skyrim for me, especially(!) quest design. I guess if TES continues its downward trajectory, at least I still have this game.

For me it's more about how ESO is a clear sign they're selling out.

-Todd swore they'd never do an MMO. Guess money changes minds
-Todd supposedly visited Zenimax regularly to make sure the lore with ESO was correct. First tidbits of information we've gotten shows lore that's completely backwards and makes zero sense. Basically the lore is dead and Todd let it happen.

It's not so much the game ITSELF, but rather the message behind it. I see more love for money, less love for lore. Mark my words, TES is dying. At least, the TES we used to know; maybe a Skyrim-ish style TES will live on, but anything Oblivion and earlier? That style is dying.

In truth i only bought Skyrim because it was a Bethesda published game. I really enjoy the open world and the freedom to do what i want when i want that is for me the real core of game play for both Skyrim/TES and Fallout 3/ New Vegas but i preffer FONV. I have yet to finish a single Skyrim game as i got bored yet i have 8 completed FONV characters so like alot of the posters here i think that Skyrim it's design and mechanics needs to remain Skyrim/TES and its mechanics, leaving FONV to it's design and mechanics. I do not want to play Fallrim or Skyout rather i would preffer to play Fallout and i am not a real big fan of Skyrim as i previously stated i really only bought Skyrim out of brand loyalty not because i enjoyed or even finished either TES or Skyrim. Any attempts to blur the distinctions between the two titles Skyrim and FONV would in this gamer's individual position be bad for both titles. I could see perhaps a toggle that would allow the player to choose a playstyle of either title as the perfect solution for everyone but the developer.

Skyrim seems the obvious predecessor to an MMO, even a testbed, because of how little impact you actually have on the world. Nothing is going to change before the end of the game based on what you do; it's all just a giant fun machine that lets you play at killing the things you don't like.

I thought Skyrim was part of what was killing it. :V

They both are. Skyrim was designed without a story that matters. It's just a time sink. An MMO without the multiplayer. If this is the future of Elder Scrolls they can count me the hell out; and they better just give Fallout back to Obsidian.

This..
Oblivion i hated for its rigid leveling but at least there were quests everywhere, there was some acknowledgement of story progression by NPC's. ( and stuff like those newspapers for example). And the ending had an incentive..a great armor and those pesky oblivion gates would be gone.. To its credit: Even if hated its mechanics.. the stories were enticing enough to make me want to finish it.
And to credit them: I absolutely love shivering Isles..

This. All ESO does is reinforce that the series is headed in the wrong direction, perhaps moreso than Skyrim because they swore an MMO wouldn't happen. With two games out breaking lore, yeah, there's not much sign that TES VI will be all about improving lore and NPC interaction...

Maybe we need to be optimistic about Fallout 4. Maybe they'll learn from New Vegas and really try to give it a story took that makes you care about the outcome and the people you meet and something to do other than roam the world gathering crafting components and seeing the effects of human frailty. Maybe they'll even ask Obsidian for help this time.