Bethesda makes more than enough to provide proper support for their games. They choose not to do it.

This is a hilariously naive viewpoint.

Fallout 3 was a buggy mess, just as much as Fallout: New Vegas. And Obsidian got a lot of hate for that even though they were forced to use Bethesda's engine -- the thing causing most of the bugs we encounter in Bethesda games.

The engine has very little to nothing to do with the bugs we encounter in the game.

Its the coding of scripts and the like that cause bugs.

Again, a naive viewpoint that speaks of not actually understanding the situation at all.

It isn't. They can afford to hire more people to properly support their games.

They just choose not to do that because it won't make them money. But that's no longer an excuse. CDProjectRed and numbers other developers are actually supporting their games and releasing free content to go with him. Bethesda is now as bad as Activision, and you defending them doesn't help.

When you encounter the same exact bungs in two games developed by two different teams, you can't blame it on the scripting. It's the engine. It's the scripting language. It's the toolkit that they're using to develop the game.

If that weren't the case, Pillars of Eternity would be just as bugged as Fallout: New Vegas was because the same people developed it.. and that isn't the case.

But Fallout 4 is just as bugged as Skyrim was just as bugged as Fallout: New Vegas was just as bugged as Fallout 3 was just as bugged as Oblivion. And they all share the same engine.

Funny that, eh?

Thats simply not true. Fallout 3 had very few bugs.

It is not worth trying to argue with someone who ignores simple facts.

Fallout 3 was an absolute mess. It's one of the main reasons Tale of Two Wastelands exists today, because Fallout: New Vegas is a more stable game.

Actually you can because Obsidian copied the scripts of Fallout 3, since there was little reason to remake them when they were already made.

PoE IS bugged as hell, its gotten a small novels worth of bug fixes because its so buggy.

And Fo4 and Skyrim are nowhere near as buggy as Fo3 or NV. In Fo3 and Nv, I get crashes nearly every 3 hours, and every other quest is broken. In Skyrim and Fo4, I've had absolutely ZERO crashes not caused by mods, and I've ran into only ONE quest that had a bug. Whats more is that Skyrim and Fo4 don;t share the same engine as NV and Fallout 3, no more then games made using Unreal 5 use the same engine as games made using Unreal 3.

Everything you said is demonstrably wrong.

Well you trolled me into one more post.

My wife and I have played over 400 hours of fallout 3 combined and other than a few artifacts and a few times jumping on objects and becoming stuck we had no issues.

New vegas on the other hand was a mess that completely broke for both of us requiring a complete restart before the patching. It was a enjoyable game despite the issues.

I do not understand the people who come to a game forum to do nothing but spew hatred, I do not understand why they feel compelled to tell the 10's of millions people who buy and love BGS games that they don't know what they are talking about. And they refuse to believe or acknowledge anyone who disagrees with them.

Do you get some enjoyment out of people arguing with you? If you want people to join you with the Beth Bashing i suggest you mosey on over to NMA. http://www.nma-fallout.com

So AwesomePossum suffered crashes every 3 hours in Fallout 3, but CnConrad and his wife were able to play for over 400 hours without much of an issue.

Just because you experience a game one way doesn't mean it's that way for everyone. Let me remind you that http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/Unofficial%20Skyrim%20Patch%20Version%20History.html is a real thing because thousands of people suffered from those bugs, and all of them were verified by more than one person.

I refuse to believe you, CnConrad, because what you're saying is irrelevant. If 1,000 people buy a game from Bethesda and only 100 of them suffer bugs, Bethesda should still take the time to fix those bugs for the 100 that bought their game. That is their responsibility as developers. They released a product, now they have to support it.

Defending them is what I have an issue with. Every single one of Bethesda's games have been buggy messes. Every single one of them, and people are so quick to forget or forgive that.

Bethesda is making BILLIONS from their games. Not all of it is profit, of course, but they are making more than enough to put together a team that fixes the bugs in their games. They can most certainly afford to do that. They can. Don't even try to argue that they can't. Skyrim and Fallout 4 are some of the biggest releases we've seen in the gaming industry lately. Bethesda is a AAA developer now. If there are developers out there for indie games that can afford to spend time addressing and fixing issues with their games, Bethesda can afford to do it to.

@AwesomePossum, nice try, but Unreal Engine actually works well enough that it doesn't need to be redone with every iteration of it. Deus Ex doesn't suffer from the same bugs as BioShock, but Skyrim had some of the same issues that Oblivion had.

I thought Skyrim was one of their less buggy releases myself. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly playable with less issues than in the past. Personally, I think Fallout 4 is an improvement on Skyrim's state of release.

FYI: In nearly 30 hours of play I've yet run into any game breaking glitches/bugs, and have have no CTD's. I have, however, had one freeze up which caused my to find alternate methods of exiting my game. That's the only problem I've had, and it's likely hardware related since I fall just short in the recommended hardware settings to play the game, yet I still manage to play with most everything maxed out at 1920 x1080 with very few issues.

I never said they game didn't have bugs, all games have bugs. Nice straw man.

You have no basis to assert that nation. And the ever ballooning cost of video game development since the mid 90's is in direct refutation of such a notion.

Dues Ex was on Unreal 1, Bioshock was on Unreal 2.5 and 3. It was more then one engine between them, whereas Fo3/NV -> Skyrim/Fo4 is simply one. Its a false comparison

And Unreal 1 and 2 actually did share many of the same bugs, unreal 3 STILL has some of the same bugs as Unreal 1, since they all use the same base. So that notion is also false.

I always feel like theres very little testing in bethesda games, I truly believe the devs just create quests and assume they work without playing them

I guess its the only way they can make 400 hours worth of content in only a few years.

They...Are fixing the bugs though. They're working on a patch to put out next week. When a game is released you discover a whole bunch of bugs from fans reporting stuff in, stuff that you can't find during development since the number of man hours that are spent testing and playing the game will never be enough when you have millions playing it at launch. Its just simple game development, what makes you think that they've decided to completely stop supporting the game?

I'm glad they didn't.

The bugs I have run into (Yes, even one that has me not playing a a particular character until a broken area is fixed) haven't even come close to me wishing people on steam got to beta test it early. The most obvious reason being, nothing in open beta testing is secure enough to remain in NDA.

Did you almost accidentally run into a FO4 spoiler in the two weeks press had a copy before it was released? I almost did.

Avoiding having the game's plot ruined for me for months would have been impossible, so I'll take the bugs. I got to enjoy the game, when they were happy with it, and the experience was entirely my own.

LOL, you and your bug meme. Give it a rest, already.

People supposedly coming across all these bugs in Fallout 4--I'm envious. Those are the best parts of any video game and so far, nothing.

how is the game buggy? its been playing good for me, and i've played it like 100 hrs so far, no quests have messed up, i haven't lost any npcs or followers etc, everything seems fine to me.

not true, what are all these bugs? i think you must be on a pc, pc users seem to be the biggest complainers

If we were going to do that the time to start would have been 1996 with Daggerfall, a game far buggier than later releases. If you are going to get worked up over it what took you so long? It has been 19 years.

Only had 1 bug so far that wasn't my fault (messing around in the console commands), and that was my character getting stuck in a falling animation and not being able to move. Just quicksaved and reloaded to fix it.

I'm quite impressed with Beth, as the game is their most stable to the point where the only thing I feel needs patching is that some scenery isn't properly lined up (some buildings have gaps between the house and porch, for example)

There are different kinds of bugs in the Bethesda RPGs. Physics bugs, scripting bugs, rendering bugs, etc. I don't understand people trying to put all Fallout bugs into one specific bucket, as I've seen instances of bugs from all three of those categories, and more.

These games are massive, open-ended clockwork universes. Bugs are an inevitability, almost no matter how long you QA it. They need to do better (seeing the same issue in three games is inexcusable, for example), but bugs are always going to be in these games.

Compared to previous Bethesda games I haven`t found FO4 to be too bad as yet - couple of hundred hours in so far.

I agree about an audio cue for Settlement attacks, it would be handy. A few times I`ve missed the little message pop up during the heat of a mission and later seen the "Failed" message. Even a flashing or bigger font for the warning would be an improvement.

Collision detection is a bit wonky at times when travelling in Vetibirds. There`s nothing like flying half submerged through a concrete flyover

On my PS4 I had a nasty lockup during exploration of a certain Faction`s medical base HQ when I couldn`t save or even go back to main menu. Ended up having to switch off from the wall which isn`t good for the PS4. Other than that the bugs I`ve seen are pretty minor.

Previous games like Daggerfall had bugs still galore years later but Daggerfall was the biggest and most ambitious Bethesda had probably done with that huge random generated system and massive game world.

Given time I`m sure the worst offending bugs will be squashed - officially or unoficially

I want to comment on the rest of your post, but this had me laughing so hard I forgot what my reply was going to be so...two things:

1. I literally fell over laughing watching that. Still chuckling randomly to myself as I picture it in my head...

2. Dogmeat is a dog. They're not the smartest creatures in the world. So for a sense of realism, the creature that thinks that licking your face after munching on it's own rear exit valve for a half hour is an ok thing to do might need to be told to NOT do things every once in a while. I've learned to sneak and tell Dogmeat to stay when I'm going around a corner.

Ok....3 things.

3. I'm laughing again.