I don't mind 50 but I also wouldn't mind 100 or anything in between. As long as it isn't half of all possible perks or more. Otherwise the whole point of uniquenesss is lost.

Where comes the info that you don't get perks after lvl 50?

One of.the biggest reasons i kept playing fallout was because i beat the game had all my perks that i thought were super awsome and all the other ones were lame like bloody mess. Then went to my friends house saw all the perks he had and hax to play through again and get the other perks. Testing them to see what ones would make you super strong and what ones were just plain out fun. If i would have been able to get all the perks in fallout i would have only ayed that game once.

"Maxing out" seven skills seems like a huge number to me.

But, then, as I've mentioned before.... between a slower-skill-gain mod and not playing characters for 100+ hours, it's incredibly rare for me to get even a single skill in Oblivion to 100. So the idea of maxing out a bunch of skills is foreign to me.

(And then there's Fallout 3.... people kept complaining how "easy" it was to get all your skills to 100. My first character, 75 hours played, had only 4 skills at 100. And probably 4-5 skills under 40. But, then, I didn't try to min/max my skill gains, didn't use a hint book to find all the bobbleheads, etc. I just played the game.)

:shrug:

50?
http://kotaku.com/5812565/the-bioshock-and-skyrim-show, one of the podcasts and some other sources say that there are 280 perks in the game.

If they already said that there is no actual level cap, and that they estimate that you can reach 50th lvl with ease, and max about 75, i think that you should be able to get a perk for each lvl. So 50 is not enough.

280 perks between 3 archetypes is about 93. 50 perks is more than half of that. Say you want a mage type. You can be a general, catch-all, mage type, with half the perks in all the magic skills, and a few left over for a weapon or alchemy, or be a specialised mage, with all the perks in half the magic skills, again with a few left over. Surely that is enough to define a class, yet not too much that classes cease to be defined at all.

280 total perks, of which you can choose 50. Or something like that.


edit: this is, of course, not counting any that you might be given for plot or quest or other reasons.

I have to force myself a little to select... yes, 50 is enough.

Sure I'd like to have everything! But one per level is suffice. I like to build characters that are fairly powerful in all areas, but as far as perks go, they will define areas that you use the most. You're still able to build up everything else. But limiting to 50 perks really adds to replayabilty, and will help to make subsequent character builds feel like something very different.

I thought you meant there were only 50 perks for specialization (As in those 280 perks are only 50 unique ones with multiple levels)

Please word your titles more appropriately :S

Anyways, the more unique for me. The better.

specialization and more playthroughs. 50 is fine.

50 is definitely enough for me. It has been mentioned earlier in the thread, having more than that would result in very un-unique character builds.

As long as (most) of the perks are unique in that they are game changing, imaginative and not just a simple +5 to damage/speed/whatever in 5 tiers to make up for the loss of attributes, I see no problem with 50 perks.
If (most of the) perks are well fleshed out and add unique properties and abilities to the character or game then I think 50/ 280 perks will provide great replay value.

That is not what I meant.... :facepalm:

Well, when you think about it, if there's 280 perks like we've been told, that only ~93 for each archetype of character. Then, if you, for example, pick a warrior type character who uses only heavy armor and axes, you just got rid of all of the perks for swords and maces. Or if you're a mage who won't use a lot of spells besides destruction, then you knocked out quite a few perks there. Getting only 50 just helps specialize your character.

I think unlimited perks is in order... otherwise, you end up with the problem that plagues all games that have a level cap: Character Optimization and Efficient Leveling.

When there's a hard limit to the number of perks, you have to think carefully about which perks you choose so you end up where you want to be, instead of taking perks that go with what you're trying out at the moment. Instead of risking a "Gimped" character at level 50 because of inefficient perk selection, having unlimited perk options allows you to correct mistakes you make in perk selection "Next Level".

You still end up with a unique character, because you don't get more than one perk per level. A level 36 character with a 50-perk cap will be the same as a level 36 character with a 280-perk cap. However, the level 50 character is suddenly deprived of continuing character development and ability to choose how to progress once they hit level 51, ending the Freeform character development.

Yeah, but they said the game is scaled with enemies up to level 50, so between level 50 and the maximum, about 70, when all your skills are at 100, is effectively wandering into 'god mode' territory, where your health and magicka start to outstrip what the game can throw at you, so I don't think this should be too much of a problem.

It makes no sense to me that leveling up beyond 50 doesn't yeild a perk. What's the point of leveling up then? A scant increase to Health and Magic? It takes away my drive and ultimately, not being able to get any stronger kills the point of the Elder Scrolls Experience.

I like the perk cap because it helps me feel like my choices matter, but honestly I wouldn't be too upset if they took it out, I probably won't ever get near level 50 anyway with my play style.

That being said, I don't think a 50 perk cap is going to make the game suffer from efficient leveling issues. With 50 perks to choose from I'm guessing most people will be able to fit the ones they want the most in without much trouble. The only real planning you need to do is counting up the tree length so you don't stupidly start up a tree of 4 perks when you get to level 48...

If there are so many awesome perks that people still feel like they can't fit in all their favorites by level 50, then that's even better, because it means we have tons of awesome perks!

I want 4,568,777 perks. I want to be able to pick 77 perks at every level-up, and I demand minor Deity status by level 20. I want a harem of 72 virgins upon every death, and I want golden cherry blossom petals to spring from the ground as I pass...

...


...


But if I can't have all of that then I guess I'm good with 50 perks as a cap. lol

It's to redress the problem with Morrowind,, where you could get to the point where you were godlike in power compared to the rest of the world. Remember, they introduced Oblivion's infamous scaling to counter complaints of lack of challenge for higher level characters. Now the game is built for characters, and enemies, up to level 50, you should always find a challenge. Going above that will take a long time, all your skills being higher so increasing slower, and the game won't throw enemies at you that require levels over 50, or a higher number of perks. Surely better to be able to level slightly above the enemies, than be able to get to level 50 when the enemies stop at 25?

For all you doubters (Google is your friend):

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/36644224258539520

They are designing the game for people to level from 1-50. If you want to min/max the game, that its up to you, but they aren't catering to your play style.

1) it's Fallout 3 - style level scaling, not the mess that was Oblivion's. So much less overriding need for ultra-efficient "omg, gotta get +5 bonuses each level or I'm screwed" leveling.

2) Increasing your skills is still "character development and ability to progress". And freeform. Perks are not the only improvement.

A challenge once in a while at endgame is fine.
But I seriously think that if Im not close to a demigod when Im level 50+ there is something wrong with the game.
There should be a payoff, you should get better and more powerful compared to the world as you level.
I think Morrowind made a good start to adress the god problem in their expansions.
I hear many people used to being a god installing bloodmoon or tribunal and being amazed at how fast they got their asses handed to them.
I would like it if at level 50+ there were a few bosses I would have trouble with, endgame bosses guarding fat loot or just there for the heck of it, but generally I should be one of the most powerful forces in Skyrim.

Level 50 isn't the endgame though, you still have about twenty levels of extra health, magicka, stamina and skill increases. You can get power in excess of all enemies, it's just slower and harder, and the level up benefits less than up to the soft cap.