To be honest, all I really want is ammo crafting and robot crafting/modding. Bethesda has confirmed all my other wants.

It looks like I:8 perk is robot crafting, but I kinda doubt it will allow you to make robot followers. Maybe robot sentries and/or upgrade Cods. As for ammo, maybe P:5 at some tier?

I think that is exactly the point. People who are used to not seeing a body when they look down don't really need the mod, but people that have come to expect to see their bodies when they look down in games find it awkward to look down in a game and see nothing. Seems like a lot of it has to do with previous experience and expectations. I can't really relate to the people who feel nauseated by the feature, but I do hope the base game will not cause any issues for those folks.

As for why I like the feature, it isn't about looking at myself, it is more about seeing myself do things in first person. If I loot a corpse, I actually bend down close to it and see my hands touch the body. Watching yourself do this in third person is not at all the same. It is not something I felt was missing before I tried the mod, but it is definitely something I notice is missing after removing it.

What the Enhanced Camera mods do for the other Bethesda games, is they enable the third-person body and animations sans head and arms in first-person - the arms are disabled, but the first-person arms and animations still play normally so it feels fine.

I've tried other mods that do exactly what you describe (putting us in first-person with third-person animations) and it's utterly terrible. The animations can obscure the screen, or only like 25% of our weapons actually appear in our field-of-view, and the head-bob can be nauseating for anyone that has issues with motion sickness. The Enhanced Camera mod actually does this for idle animations like crafting, or modes like horseback riding and lycanthropy, and I usually can't stand it.

I have no opinion about the 1st person body, but I don't see any harm in dual wielding. It's a video game, not a very serious one, so why not?

Yeah that would be a good compromise, there are games that are built from the ground up that way like DayZ that has a lot of animations and really good 3rd and 1st person POV.

As for dual-wielding, I certainly won't be complaining if it's in. We're talking about a universe where Ghouls, Super Mutants, and giant bugs walk the Earth and nuclear-powered cars explode in miniature mushroom clouds; no one should be fazed by dual-wielding pistols. I just think it isn't based on a design standpoint - for TES they can get away with just flipping one-handed animations to the other side, but it's a lot trickier with guns.

Would it not be simple to replace the meshes for those needing the feet view?

They are all there.. Just copy the 3rd person meshes and replace the 1st person meshes with them.

Darknut did this for Morrowind. Have a look at His mod and see what He did.

Yeah, and reloading animations get kind of tricky..... most games with dual-wield just kind of handwave the whole loading issue.

Dual wielding....sure, why not. But then it should be done so you can aim at two different targets, otherwise, what's the point? I could see that working in VATS, but probably not in real time.

The body thing...meh. I get what people are saying, but I've never even thought about wanting that, so it can't be that important to me =)

In the Dead Island games you could look down and make your character dance. It was sort of funny until a zombie ate you for screwing around instead of paying attention.,

Actually yes, I have practiced duel-wielding both short swords and daggers -- reason being -- LIKE I SAID -- I feel stupid just holding one -- mostly due to the fact that I'm ambidextrous.

No, I'm not 'military trained' or what ever pretentious fob crap -- I did it simply our of interest and a love of the style -- it always felt more comfortable that way for me.

Otherwise what ever arm I'm not using feels like there's nothing for me to do with it. And the person that taught me told me the same thing -- because they also learned a military style.

But I was animate and besides that -- who cares I was only using the 'skill' for LARPing -- and much like this game it's based primarily in fantasy. So -- who cares if it's 'realistic'?

Also how it is head to pat your rub your belly and pat your head -- that's all about rhythm -- not hard --

that's like saying anything that required both hands to do slightly different things it's impossible.

I mean - how do you even type or play piano without learning to use your hands individually? lololo XD

Agreed, looking down at an empty space is very immersion breaking.

I would also love to see an actual physical act when opening drawers or searching cabinets etc.

It's no harder than playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiFEFL6ThRI Easy to do? No. Practical for every day use? No. Possible to learn how to do with a fair amount of success? Absolutely, but of so is almost anything in this world possible to learn how to do with enough practice.

That's the funny thing about us as a species, tell us that we can't do something, that it is impossible to do, and we'll find a way to do it anyway.

First Person body, the guy that makes that mod everytime is LogicDragon. Kinda sad to ask for it and not realize the mod author that pretty much always made it available is LogicDragon ><

Takes a lot of work to animate something that you hardly pay attention to. Notice in GTAV how your arms just flop about when you're in first person and not holding a weapon? For some reason your body is also sideways when standing still. Why animate it if you don't have to?

Far Cry 4 does a great job of only showing your body when you actually might notice it.. like using zip lines or climbing.. But at any other time in the game.. it's not there. That's because it really isn't necessary.. and unless you're a person who walks around staring at your feet all day, most of the time you don't notice your own body in reality. You just trust that it's there.

Arma (base for DayZ) is the best 1st person integration I've ever seen. It even imposes limits to what you can do in various stances (and there are tons of stances), like not being able to rotate head by same amount while crawling or limit weapon angle when laying still (helps prevents AI noticing you to some extent) and controlling weapon angle. Equipment on body is seen, and almost everything you see in 3rd person is also done in 1st person. Only time I know this doesn't happen is that raising weapon to eye is not animated in 3rd person (is only a 1st person trick). You have three or four "modes" for mouse (or other) control; body direction, head direction (look slightly back while running forward with gun still pointing forward), weapon direction, and seamless lean (works great with trackir, otherwise I'd use keyboard for lean and roll).

Arma is though a "pure shooter" and works in real perspective, I'm not sure how well it would play out if it had a melee component. Farcry works well, but that uses tricks to accomplish it, whereas in Arma they are for free because no perspective tricks are utilized.

I have three reasons why I don't enjoy 3rd person.

1) I get helplessly lost with the controls, and I can't count the number of time I've run off a cliff on a horse in Skyrim (my most common way to die, in the end I just gave up on horses, as I didn't know there was a mod for it). Most games I can't even play because they are 3rd person only.

2) Switching back and forth without my input takes me out of the immersion, and I get alloyed as hell, anger quitting.

3) Not a reason in single player games, but in MP games like Arma it just feels like cheating (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A). Sadly this 3rd person "cheat" became so popular there was almost no servers there that enforced 1st as a difficulty setting or mission specific setups that still would force it where it made the most sense.

I'm all for actively going into 3rd person and check out how you look. In RPGs this is especially important. I sure wouldn't mind Arma stances, running modes, and control schemes, as it really helps me "get into game", and they wouldn't be "critical for outcome success" and could be neglected for consoles since accessing them would be impossible.