Since the speed issue keeps coming up, I should clarify two things.

The 100 speed rating is entirely a result of them having "auto-calculated" stats and being minimum level 19. It's not something Sotobrastos did, it's just the way the game calculated things. He would have had to have intentionally over-ridden this.

The 70 point speed bonus is vanilla. It was always on those NPCs before OOO ever came along. They had a base speed of 138 before Sotobrastos went anywhere near them.

Boosts to Blade, Blunt or Marksman are meaningless, because these are H2H fighters. Boosts to Resist Normal Weapons are quite possibly meaningless because the player will have plenty of enchanted weapons by that level.

I get so sick of people coming on these forums and complaining because a mod isn't to their taste. I can't even find ice cream that is exactly to my taste. That doesn't mean I make a scene at the grocery mart.

If you don't like a mod, here are some options to consider:

1. Don't use the mod (most painfully obvious option..)
2. Make a mod yourself, or mod the mod you don't like
3. Find another mod
4. Play without a mod
5. Use strategy and tactics to overcome the PITA in question. For instance, a damage speed weapon or poison, in this case.
6. Some combination of the above
7. Don't play at all

...and this one is by far the best. Fix it! Hell, the OOO team is even pretty receptive to new ideas... if they're presented in a respectful way.

I can definately see why it would be considered a potential problem, an oponent who has 200 speed or so has an advantage against the player which is quite noticable if the player himself buffs his speed.

Think of the situation, you're a lightly armed character with 100 speed, and you have a buff of, say, 30. These three argonian convicts start laying into you, so you turn and run, just to get a bit of space and avoid the special attacks; only to discover that they're faster than you!

Even taking into account their lack of other gear that's pretty strange.

I'll just throw this out there as well...

The Arena is the "professional sport" in Cyrodiil, correct? (well, that, and staying alive!) To put it in perspective, the NFL has guys that weigh over 300 lbs and can easily outrun the vast majority of us sitting here playing video games. Now, are there soldiers out there that compare? Sure there are... but not all of them, not by a long shot (please, this is not a shot at anyone... professional athletes are subjected to levels of training and , um, "conditioning", that most people can't imagine, and they're paid very well [too well?] for it).

The point is, in our own society we have a class of people that regularly display abilities way above and beyond the "norm", and we have no problem accepting that. They compete against each other for our entertainment, and we want them to be exceptional. So, why wouldn't you expect Arena combatants to be "a cut above" what you see in much of the rest of the OOO - TES4 world? I mean, shouldn't they be faster, hit harder, and be tougher to kill that their counter-parts on the highways and in the forests?

Just throwing that out there, like I said. Yeah, they're fast... and I like it.
veg

yeah I prefer to be the only one running faster than the speed of light.

Im sure everyone else gets sick of people who feel they need to make meaningless posts defending their favourite ice cream.

Heres what you might consider doing:

1. Not posting if you do not intend to discuss

2. Not get offended when others wish to discuss



It simply isnt the case to the same extent as it is in the Arena.

In reality ordinary people can do 15-17 mph (24-27kmh) fairly regularly. Even a brief search yielded people who claimed 19 mph (30kmh) in front of a speedometer. Trained athletes, however, manage 21-24mph (35-40kmh), and even as high as 29mph (48kmh) at peak speed for the best of the best (world record).

Now that is very quick. But the ratio from even the fastest man at his fastest ever peak speed to what an average person can muster is two. Most of the time, and particularly over longer distances, the ratio is much lower.

In Oblivion's Arena, the contestants literally move two to three times quicker than someone with 50 speed, and they do so over a sustained period with no need to build up the speed. They also are able to turn absolutely unhindered, despite a sprint of 48kmh in reality pretty much guaranteeing you will be going in a straight line.

Thats why it looks like slapstick. It just doesnt make sense

It's worse in the example you give above because those three opponents are supposed to be slaves or prisoners or something being forced to fight in the arena. That's why it's three against one at that point.

Most of the silliness is vanilla, though. Very little of it is from OOO.

A character with 5 Athletics and 30 Speed can run at 10.2 mph.

A character with 50 Athletics and 50 Speed can run at 12.6 mph.

The Yellow Team Champion with OOO has 149 Athletics and 169 Speed, and can run at 23.1 mph. Two times faster yes, three never.

I agree that something's slightly off, but not by as much as you think, and the game settings for movement are probably worth looking at first...

First of all, to be clear, no one here has offended me whatsoever. Also, no discussion here has offended me whatsoever. I simply find it silly that you are complaining about a mod when there is a plethora of options to fix your complaint. Also, I don't give a damn about ice cream, I was simply trying to find the most universal way of saying, you're being silly for the above reason. Being less than overjoyed at hearing constant whining complaints by someone willing to spend time complaining rather than fixing a trifle of an issue is not equal to being offended. Finally, by posting here, I was discussing. I don't see where that is confusing for you? If it had occurred to you that these options existed, then why are we here discussing this at all?


Also, I'm curious as to what tactics you've tried in these arena fights, as in damaging speed, buffing or debuffing health, etc. not already mentioned?

I replied to the OP, so its not me you ought to be giving advice to. However, it turns out that this is not even a problem of OOO in the first place - i have just tested what an earlier poster said and it turns out this is an issue of vanilla Arena in the first place. So frankly, whether or not OOO is being complained about, or whether it demonstrates the limitations of modding, as i said earlier, is all irrelevant because its not even causing the issue in the first place.

My apologies are extended to the OOO team, I did not realise it was not OOO that caused this behaviour - it turns out it doesnt, this is simply yet another horrible design choice in stock Oblivion.

In terms of tactics i use, they are fairly simple. Conjured scamp to distract opponents, whittling health down while blocking/dodging their swings with powerful enchanted weapons then finishing them off either with a flurry of hits or something like a 100 shock staff i have. Ive not had much trouble reaching Warrior rank by level 5.



Well the equivalent values in reality would have been 15 mph for the 50 speed/50 athletics character and 24mph for the champion, peak speed. However, in an Arena fight such speeds could NOT be reached, with the maneouvering and side steps required. In fact, due to the higher inertia higher speeds produce, the champion and 50speed 50athletics contestant would move in a remarkably similar manner - the Champion could not use their higher speed without losing their ability to maneouvre. So the difference should not be this big in the first place.

However, it is interesting that its only 2 times. As you say, the problem is more the way characters run and the game settings for movement. However limiting those so that someone running at 24mph cannot turn easily is going to be extremely difficult, and the character animations also do not fit these high stat levels.

As such, these high values should NOT have been used, because the result they produce is both beyond what player characters can achieve, and results in strange movement. The boosts should have been maybe 20 to speed and athletics



I noticed you mention that earlier so i tested it, and you are right. Its got nothing to do with OOO, its just yet another bad design choice in Oblivion.

My apologies again to the OOO team. Its not their design that was faulty

I didn't say it was. I was merely drawing a comparison. Your stats, therefore, fall on deaf ears because that's not the point. I didn't say Oblivion did a good job of mimicking this (but I did say I was OK with it as is), I just pointed out that the intent probably isn't as far from reality as you suggest it is. That's all.

And finally, let me just throw this out there as well... Immersion breaking? I suggest that the existence of an Arena that you can join at any time and complete in a couple of days is, in and of itself, immersion breaking. I've never thought of the Arena as a "serious" part of TES4. I mean, you come in off the street and beat up on people that claim to have been training forever to reach their status. If you time it right, you can complete the entire thing in a day, two max. Really? Forget speed buffs on the combatants... the Arena itself is an immersion breaker IMHO.

That's all.
(Edit: clarification)

Well, I hope there's no hard feelings. I was about to suggest playing "Beat It" and tying our right hands together while lunging at one another with fishy sticks. :lmao: The reason I was suggesting damaging speed or debuffing health to whoever might have this issue is because I use OOO, and have noticed high speed on different enemies from time to time, namely amazons, and this has worked for me. Even if the problem is with the base game, using what's available in mods (or even vanilla) can go a long way IMO. A particular meteoric bow in OOO (can't recall the name atm) that damages speed has been of use to me in these types of situations, for example. Anyway, I hope a resolution of one kind or another can be found for anyone having this issue, either way.

I didnt suggest you did, i merely fully explained why i hold my views. I explained why even if you are right, and the speed is similar to the range for real world peak speeds, it is definitely NOT the same as Oblivion's 50 speed vs 150. I wont go over it again, basically its got to do with top speed vs agility that sports scientists and football recruiters know all about. But suffice it to say that BECAUSE it is so problematic in Oblivion, which you seem to accept, then it follows that the devs should have avoided using speed stats above 100.

The key here is again 'visual realism' - people are extremely touchy about how things look and move. Sure, the Arena being easy or even accessible, and there being only 100 people in the Imperial 'City' is all 'immersion breaking' too, and we could go endlessly really about the tiny landmass, silly things the AI does and the population of Cyrodiil being equal to a small town.

Now i do know and accept there are plenty of other issues with Oblivion - i consider things like the AI having limitless potions if they have just one in their inventory (and constantly guffing it down RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU AS YOU SWING INTO THEIR FACE), and the fact the AI needs this cheat, a much more serious gameplay issue.

But in this thread i really just wanted to point out that the OP does have a point, and some of these buffs just should not be there. I didnt come to discuss these other issues, even though they are more important.



No definitely no hard feelings. (But fighting with fishy sticks does sound hilarious!) As i said, i apologise for having accused OOO of something they did not do. My tangent about modding really is off topic too, since OOO did not cause this. So i am the one who should apologise for not checking their facts and having people read things that are not relevant to the topic.

In terms of tips on how to beat these high speed foes, your points are definitely spot on there. My own tactic against ridiculously quick opponents is ussually to jump on a ledge or rock they cant get to But failing that, if your character is similar or higher level, there are lots of ways to beat these annoying 'wasps'.

If the OP would like some tips im sure there are plenty of people who could offer them. In terms of the immersion breaking effect of some of these buffs, as ive said i do agree with the OP, but ultimately if OOO didnt fix it already its probably easiest to simply fix the stats yourself

What does that mean? Can you explain this to me?

It means they hired him because they thought OOO was really neat. Of course, that's not the only reason, I wish getting a job were that simple.

Talk about thread Necromancy,

request to get it closed

Soto now works for Obsidan aka New Vegas..