[RELz] Open Cities Classic, Thread #7 : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:16 pm

That UOMP bug is so incredibly irritating I'm half tempted to start including a fixed version of the ESP file with the OCC download

But the other is going to be harder. I want to add another city gate to Leyawiin, which will mean using the modified CastleGate01 and its door and also merging the cell contents of the OC interior with my mod's changed exterior. Is there any easy way of doing the merge? The Reborn version is actually less of a problem, because I just need to add docks, and that already has them, so I just find another parking space for the ship - most of the action is the new interior.

Is there an old thread or something that covers edits around the city walls?

You get into all sorts of stickyness if you need to remove or otherwise edit the city walls. If you don't need to do that, then it's less of a problem to try and support, but that also depends on where in the city your new additions are planned for. It's easy enough for you to do the rock method swapping. Any serious landscape or path grid changes and you'll be looking at needing two patch files. There's simply no way to merge landscape or path grid data, and the nature of Leyawiin Reborn means that land or grid patches for it will disrupt things with a normal Leyawiin.

Also when testing with Leyawiin Reborn (and little else) to see what it did, I found a dead On-Staya Sundew below the bridge to the chapel - does she do that a lot?

Only if you're not running with the proper road record file. If you're using the wrong one, then she won't be the only one you'll eventually find dead at the bottom of that bridge.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:51 am

Since I just did a quick test without replacing the road records, that would account for the suicidal On-Staya.

The new gate seems to be working as I'd hoped. The residents don't use it because it only leads to a small dock and, with no real trade, there's nothing much to go there for (but really because the path grids don't go through there).

I don't need any exterior changes for Reborn, as it has a dock already, and I just need to place/replace a ship to use the interior. I'll need a couple of alternative dialogs (since the passage through to the Niben has not silted up in that version) but that's easier than landscape compromises.

But I do have one more question: At present I'm using a lot of tests to determine which mod to get the formids from when I need to enable/disable anything (fortunately only a few are needed).

 if ( IsModLoaded "Full set.esp" )   Set MyRef to GetFormFromMod "Full set.esp" "xxxxx" elseif ( IsModLoaded "Bravil Only.esp" ...

What I really need is a "GetFormFromModFamily" function, that works on any packaging of the same stuff, but what's the nearest thing in reality?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:48 am

I think I need a better understanding of using Wrye Bash.

I'm using OCC with all the UL mods.

After running BOSS, the OC+ Cheydinhal Falls and OC + Skingrad Outskirts patches are both placed under OC Full.esp.
So this is good...

However, after running creating my based patch, only OpenCities Full.esp shows up in the bashed patch. This reverts the changes of the patches.

What tags should I add to make the patches show up in the based patch, or how do I remove OC from my bashed patch?

Thanks

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:20 am

FWIW, here's a http://dslcv1-458.fast.net/oblivion/Docs/Docks.jpg of the view into Leyawiin through the South Gate I added. I managed to get everything working without an additional plugin, so one version works for both Open and closed cities. The ground was level at that point, so only a couple of rocks inside that belong to OCC needed to be disabled to make it work. Since that happens in a script after loading, it doesn't seem to matter which mod loads first.

Of course, by working, I mean that any bugs are equally there whether Open Cities Classic is in use or not. :brokencomputer:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:39 pm

But I do have one more question: At present I'm using a lot of tests to determine which mod to get the formids from when I need to enable/disable anything (fortunately only a few are needed).

 if ( IsModLoaded "Full set.esp" )   Set MyRef to GetFormFromMod "Full set.esp" "xxxxx" elseif ( IsModLoaded "Bravil Only.esp" ...

What I really need is a "GetFormFromModFamily" function, that works on any packaging of the same stuff, but what's the nearest thing in reality?

I'm not familiar with the gory details of how GetFormFromMod works, but you might ask TheNiceOne about it since he makes heavy use of it in his Map Marker Overhaul. In fact, you could probably just look at his scripts and see how he handled the detection for the Open Cities stuff since he has support in there for the house map markers in the cities.

I think you've probably got the right setup though. The best I can really do is to keep the formIDs intact across updates.

I think I need a better understanding of using Wrye Bash.

I'm using OCC with all the UL mods.

After running BOSS, the OC+ Cheydinhal Falls and OC + Skingrad Outskirts patches are both placed under OC Full.esp.
So this is good...

However, after running creating my based patch, only OpenCities Full.esp shows up in the bashed patch. This reverts the changes of the patches.

What tags should I add to make the patches show up in the based patch, or how do I remove OC from my bashed patch?

Open Cities shouldn't need any tags at all, and neither should any of the patches. Why exactly is it showing up in your Bashed Patch? I honestly haven't noticed it doing that with me so maybe I'm overlooking something.

FWIW, here's a http://dslcv1-458.fast.net/oblivion/Docs/Docks.jpg of the view into Leyawiin through the South Gate I added. I managed to get everything working without an additional plugin, so one version works for both Open and closed cities. The ground was level at that point, so only a couple of rocks inside that belong to OCC needed to be disabled to make it work. Since that happens in a script after loading, it doesn't seem to matter which mod loads first.

Of course, by working, I mean that any bugs are equally there whether Open Cities Classic is in use or not. :brokencomputer:

Excellent. Good to see you've got things working, and even better that it's working in whatever combination is there. The rocks you disable via script shouldn't be a huge issue either as long as you're not disabling one of the AI doors. I can't tell from the shot you posted but you are in that part of the city where the door is tucked away.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:41 am

Open Cities shouldn't need any tags at all, and neither should any of the patches. Why exactly is it showing up in your Bashed Patch? I honestly haven't noticed it doing that with me so maybe I'm overlooking something.

Funny thing is, I marked OC Full.esp as no merge and it still shows up in the bashed patch.

EDIT - been putting the OC patches mentioned in my last post below the based patch in the LO and all is well. But yeah, don't think this should be necessary.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:19 am

What specifically is showing up in the patch? I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it but who knows.

The two patches you specifically mention shouldn't be affected at all since Bash doesn't do LAND or PGRD record merging.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:06 am

... The rocks you disable via script shouldn't be a huge issue either as long as you're not disabling one of the AI doors. I can't tell from the shot you posted but you are in that part of the city where the door is tucked away.

The AI door remains (regardless of order) and works. I was surprised not to pop out at the same location in the "parallel universe", but after all it's the NPC's that will use it, so that doesn't make much difference.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:17 am

After play-testing some more, I find that I do have problems, but it's not where I expected. I may need a bit of help creating AI packages for my added NPC's who try to wander in the original closed worldspaces. At the moment, I'm thinking it should be as simple as using a Quest variable in the conditions for alternate packages, but are there any gotcha's I should be aware of before I go add all the necessary duplicates?

I also have two levels of water in the pool with the statue in Anvil. Since the level that's nearest the wall is lowest, you can only see if if you go to the back of the pool (as in the DB quest to visit the barrel back there). I'm only running OB, SI, the Unofficial patches, OCC and my own mod, which makes no land edits.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:05 am

The AI packs shouldn't be a huge issue. You'll want to set up a duplicate of whatever package you're using with a new marker target in the open worldspace. It will need a condition set on it so that it only activates if the "Leyawiin Dummy Cell" is owned by LeyawiinFaction. A 3rd AI pack will likely also be needed with the same cell owned by LeyawiinGuards. It's a bit of a tricky system but it's the only one I've been able to come up with for conditional AI packs that work without the need for scripts. You should NOT set ownership on the cells yourself though, that needs to be left for OC to do.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:03 pm

The proverbial light bulb just came on. I was wondering how I could possibly find the replacement Xmarkers in OCC, but I can simply place my own, even if it's at the same spot.

D'oh [img]http://static.zenimax.com/forums/images/public/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif[/img]

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:27 am

Hi, I currently have Bananasplits Better Cities mod active. Would I be using the OBC mod or this one? The OBC one seems as if it was discontinued because it had too many problems and this one seems to have always been supported more frequently but unless theres a compatability patch for this, wouldnt most of the Better City buildings that are new be missing and etc? Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:48 am

Funny thing is, I marked OC Full.esp as no merge and it still shows up in the bashed patch.

EDIT - been putting the OC patches mentioned in my last post below the based patch in the LO and all is well. But yeah, don't think this should be necessary.

What specifically is showing up in the patch? I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it but who knows.

The two patches you specifically mention shouldn't be affected at all since Bash doesn't do LAND or PGRD record merging.

Seems there was some confusion on my part in regards to this. The patches and OpenCitiesFull.esp are working fine.
Turns out it has been XEO5 which has caused the land tearing I mentioned. I have no idea why Xeo5 would cause land tearing. I remember reading on one of the Korean TES sites that XEO5 does add a hunter's shack somewhere in the wilderness. I have yet to find it though. But I guess this must account for the heightmap changes. I ended up putting XEO5 to load before all land changing mods and all is well now.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:02 am

Ok, good that you found the problem. What's XEO5?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:02 am

hey arthmoor, do you have any idea if this is compatible with Better Cities? OBC seems to be discontinued.

sorry i asked again, but i think i fluffed my question with unnecessary words so it was skipped.

thanks

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:41 am

Ok, good that you found the problem. What's XEO5?

NPC race/appearance/body overhaul mod. Makes NPCs look more Anime.
Definitely an acquired taste. But I was able to use CS to make a custom version for myself.
All Dragon race are now standard Argonians.
All Khajiit use Slof's Better Khajiit textures.
And I changed the ears of all male elves back to Vanilla ears.

IDK, I love the mod personally. When paired with CNRP, it makes every NPC feel extremely unique. And since I use Companion Share and Recruit, suddenly all the Vanilla NPCs become respectful candidates to join in my quests and dungeon hunting.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:33 am

hey arthmoor, do you have any idea if this is compatible with Better Cities? OBC seems to be discontinued.

sorry i asked again, but i think i fluffed my question with unnecessary words so it was skipped.

thanks

It's not. If you want open versions of the BC cities, you need to use OBC.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:33 pm

I'm having trouble again with the imperial isle following the latest reinstall. Basically I'm getting bad land tearing around the Archane Univ. It was OK on my last game, so I've forgotten a patch or something. Really hoping you can take the time to help.
Not a complete load order, just the bit that matters...

Active Mod Files:0D  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0E  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0F  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm10  Open Cities Resources.esm  [Version 3.3.2]11  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]12  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.4]13  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]14  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp15  DLCShiveringIsles.esp16  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]...60  Bravil Docks.esp61  ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - All the Districts - Merged.esp62  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp63  OCC-KR-Patch.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp64  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp**  Kvatch Rebuilt Vwalk.esp65  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp66  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp67  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 1.3]**  Cyrodiil Travel Services Vwalk.esp68  DLCFrostcrag.esp69  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]6A  SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp  [Version 1.2]**  DLCFrostcrag Vwalk.esp6B  Ulrim's Horses.esp6C  Knights.esp6D  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp++  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]++  Ulrim's Horses - Knights patch.esp6E  OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp  [Version 2.1]6F  AFK_Weye.esp70  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]71  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.3]72  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Vergayun Vwalk.esp73  Faregyl.esp  [Version 1.0.10]**  Faregyl Vwalk.esp74  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.4]75  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]76  xulTheHeath.esp77  XulEntiusGorge.esp78  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]79  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]7A  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]**  xulChorrolHinterland Vwalk.esp7B  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]7C  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]**  xulBravilBarrowfields Vwalk.esp7D  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]7E  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.2]7F  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]80  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.1]81  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]82  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp83  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]**  xulRollingHills_EV Vwalk.esp84  xulPantherRiver.esp85  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.1]86  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]**  xulBrenaRiverRavine Vwalk.esp87  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.3]**  xulImperialIsle Vwalk.esp88  xulBlackwoodForest.esp89  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]8A  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp8B  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0]**  xulAspenWood Vwalk.esp8C  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp**  xulSkingradOutskirts Vwalk.esp8D  bartholm.esp8E  Bartholm-Panther River Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]8F  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 1.0]**  bartholm Vwalk.esp90  Open Cities New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.1]91  Open Cities Bartholm.esp  [Version 1.0.3]92  Open Cities Outer Districts.esp  [Version 3.3.2]93  Open Cities Full + Leyawiin Reborn.esp  [Version 3.3.3]94  OC+Bravil Docks Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]95  OCC-ULCH-Patch.esp  [Version 2.2]96  OCC-OOO-Patch.esp  [Version 2.3]97  NRB4+UL-II+OCOD Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.1]98  OCLR+ULBWForest Patch.esp99  OC+Cheydinhal Falls Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]9A  OC+ULSkingradOutskirts Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]9B  NRB4+RR Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]9C  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]9D  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]9E  Badmagic - Landscape Fix for 20 -18.esp9F  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]A0  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.espA1  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]A2  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]A3  SkycaptainsBloodTime.espA4  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]A5  ATakesAll.espA6  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]++  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp  [Version 2.1.0]++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]A7  RealisticFatigue.espA8  MidasSpells.espA9  OC+Midas Magic Patch.espAA  RenGuardOverhaul.espAB  RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.espAC  IDFQR, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.4]AD  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]AE  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]AF  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]B0  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]B1  ProgressRacial.espB2  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]B3  RealisticLeveling.esp++  77_Umpa_sixy_walk.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Script effect - Bash icon.esp  [Version 1.01]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]B4  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]B5  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]B6  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]B7  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]B8  bgBalancingVanillaGMSTArmorPenalty.esp  [Version 9.0UV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]B9  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]BA  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.993]BB  OC+Integration Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]BC  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.espBD  ReallyImmersiveMessagesNoBirthsigns.espBE  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]BF  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp**  NRB4 OCLR Road Record.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.9]C0  Bashed Patch, 0.esp++  OOO-Magic_Script_Effect_Fix.esp  [Version 1.33]C1  Streamline 3.1.esp

I've got OC-OD, UL-II, NR&B and Region Revive, and thought I had all the appropriate patches. I must not, but can't figure out which is missing. :brokencomputer:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:54 am

No, you didn't miss a patch file. The NRB4+UL-II+OCOD Patch.esp was missing a needed cell. I poked around and that appears to have been the only problem. I've uploaded a fixed file to the download pages.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:09 pm

No, you didn't miss a patch file. The NRB4+UL-II+OCOD Patch.esp was missing a needed cell. I poked around and that appears to have been the only problem. I've uploaded a fixed file to the download pages.

Thanks alot for that, unfortunately it's only half fixed the problem. To the east of the Arcane univ is ok now, but I've still got problems to the west. The road down the the little RR hamlet is messed up. Here's some screenies
http://yfrog.com/6foblivion201003291355292p
http://yfrog.com/6foblivion201003291355398p
http://yfrog.com/6foblivion201003291355502p
http://yfrog.com/6foblivion201003291356078p
http://yfrog.com/9doblivion201003291402572p

I'm really stumped how this doesn't work for me now, it used to before I reinstalled everything. I'm using http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23140 too and when on the bridge it shows you above the water to the left, which I think is confusing me too.

Do I need this patch too? RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIslePatch.esp Doesn't make any difference to the above land tearing tho - EDIT it does stop the houses in that hamlet/fishing village being embedded in the cliff wall tho.

Thanks in advance

EDIT2 Updated to latest vers of NR&B to no avail (I d'loaded it ages ago, just hadn't installed Doh!)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:12 am

This should really be getting handled in the NRB4 thread regardless, because this isn't an issue with Open Cities. The Outer Districts module does not alter landscape data for this very reason. The area is already crowded enough without that complicating things.

NRB4 was rerouted to the east side of the AU, also for the same reason. It was getting too difficult to maintain things on the west side without something making a big mess. Looking back over your load list: NRB4+RR Patch.esp is up to 2.1 and you're listing 1.0 which is probably where the problem is coming from. Hadn't spotted that before, but since the road got moved east the patch no longer needs to mess with the cell in your shots.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:58 am

Patch added for the Outer Districts and Frostcrag Spire. Available on Nexus. Surprised nobody mentioned it, other than Dwip, but there you go. I guess Frostcrag isn't terribly popular

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:59 am

So this mod just makes it so cities are in the actual worldspace as opposed to having to go through the loading screen when entering the gates? I ask because I'm currently using ImpeREAL which is pretty great, but I'm not sure if there'd be any compatibility problems.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:30 am

So this mod just makes it so cities are in the actual worldspace as opposed to having to go through the loading screen when entering the gates? I ask because I'm currently using ImpeREAL which is pretty great, but I'm not sure if there'd be any compatibility problems.

That is correct. Which ImpeREAL mods are you using? The Unique Districts plugin should work fine, Open Cities doesn't change the Imperial City. You will probably have compatibility problems if you use Unique Castles. Unique Forts doesn't touch anything near any cities so no problems there.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:05 am

Open Cities does change the prison and university, but that plugin is optional. But otherwise, yes, it transfers the cities into the Tamriel worldspace so things behave as they did in Morrowind.