Hell, the only reason I say that peace between the BoS and Institute is possible is because the BoS are just the new kids on the block. They're strong and have a lot of fancy toys but they're still new and the Institute hasn't done a history of awful things to them like they did to the Railroad. Maxson is portrayed as a person who can be reasoned with if a person is charismatic enough or makes a good point, if the Institute agreed to ending the Gen-3 program and agreed to have a BoS supervisor or something I'm sure the two factions can come to an agreement.

Of course even I have to admit it's a bit hopeful, it's still more likely then the railroad and institute becoming peaceful to each other.

Revenge I guess. Attacking the only tangible symbol of The Institute they can get their hands on. Or just trying to disrupt any Institute operations they possibly can, since at this point they've lost their leadership and best agents, and haven't got a chance of infiltrating The 'Stute now.

Though to be fair, it probably would be the logical thing for her to do in that position, for all she knows it's already too late to tie up that loose end.

Edit...shoot the SS, that is. She's bright enough to know that the Institute would never send the SS out unless they considered him/her expendable.

No since that wasn't your question, you asked which humans you sacrificed in your quest for 'equality' in ensuring Gen-3 Synths continue by taking control of the Institute.......well the answer is a lot, but what if you side with the Railroad..........well pretty much the same, except that the people of the Commonwealth are once again left to deal with the Raiders, Ferals, Super Mutant, Deathclaws etc without much support. The only difference is a few more Gen-3 in circulation, but still the end of Synth production, removing that threat from the table.

Well no on the Minutemen, they were still there in my first playthrough was I supposed to get an order to attack the Minutemen......damn you Preston, damn you to hell.

So your going to cheat through the console to avoid the Institutes demand that you exterminate the Railroad and the Railroad's totally unwillingness to make peace with the Institute..........yeah.

You see that is kind of the point, the Institute isn't willing to make peace with the BOS and Railroad, the Railroad isn't willing to make peace with the BOS or Institute and BOS isn't willing to make peace with the Railroad and Institute.....so equality right there, but to 'save' the Gen-3 Synths you have to sacrifice the humans and to save humans you have to be willing to sacrifice the Synths.

Exactly the facts of what happens in the game doesn't matter......because reasons.

Honestly the Railroad is also doing equal harm to Gen-3 synths. Not everyone escaped the Institute's destruction, a lot of Gen-3s were shut down through the Director's terminal and there probably were Gen-3 in the deeper parts of the Institute that couldn't get out. So, congrats you managed to do the same near genocide of the Gen-3s the BoS would do if they blew up the Institute if you pick Railroad. Then you have if you kill BoS you're committing the same genocide you claim to not want to do.

The BoS aren't just a country or organization, they're a ideology, a culture, an entire ethnicity. You show compassion to the Railroad but you don't extend that to an entire nation? Those people had families, hopes, dreams, children and what they deserve to die because you disagree with their way of life, philosophy and ideology? That sounds equally bad to the whole "gen-3 genocide" thing, especially when we know for a fact that the BoS are actually sentient and free-thinking whereas we can't extend the same facts to the synths because again, we know very little and there is enough to state that what the Railroad says is completely wrong.

Given that the Brotherhood is the ruling power of the CW, your actions against them in the Commonwealth will also lead to pain and suffering in the CW, a possible return to the chaos pre-Brotherhood.......so that another large group of humans suffering for the 'equality' of Gen-3 Synths.

I'm actually planning my second playthrough now.......Institute or Railroad and the Railroad ending to me is a little schizo since I'm supposed to destroy the Brotherhood in the Commonwealth to protect Gen-3 Synths and then destroy the Institute?

I wonder if the institute ever replaced a Synth with a Synth. There's a bug that apparently allows Glory to be walking around the HQ after she supposedly dies. Maybe it isn't her. Maybe it's another Synth sent to replace the Synth Glory to be a mole in the RR. Surely the Institute still has Glory's 'blueprints'. They could make a dozen of her, pic the same hair style, etc. Now you have an Institute Synth pretending to be a freed Synth who was programmed to think it has a free will. The Irony.

Ideology is the driving force behind Maxson's crusade, not events. So arguing over events doesn't prove anything which is backed up in game when Danse is shown to be a synth. There is no magic number of events where Maxson says, "Oh, I guess man made people with free will is totally cool."


Still confused?

Danse is talking about abominations, when it comes to Synths (no difference between Gen1,2,3). This is what he was taught by the Brotherhood and believes in, when you first meet. BoS is for me Black&White thinking, it makes sense for a military organisation.

Doesn't the Institute usually kidnap the real people and replace them? It is not too far fetched a Synth like Danse makes it into their ranks, human at first.

If I would do a playthrough as BoS, I would just kill any abnormal thing in my way. This faction has a right and reason to be there and part of the game, there is no need to make them look like wimps.

Well doesn't the fact that he doesn't remember being a Synth mean that he was freed, had his memory wiped, given new ones, then re-entered the Commonwealth. In fact I think I read that he complains that the RR didn't give him happy childhood memories or something like that. I'd say he joined the BoS after escaping the Institute. I don't think he was 'planted' as a replacement. If he was he would know that and know what his mission was for the Institute.

I'm fairly sure this point is completely moot, since there isn't an ending where you don't kill large numbers of humans.

It's not my fault that logical dialogue options weren't put in the game.

What nation? The Brotherhood in the Commonwealth is a damn zeppelin crew. Their actual nation is elsewhere and you never come close to touching it. Every Brotherhood member you meet is in the military in some way, even if they're child soldiers.

"Logical dialogue" you're saying that two groups that have been fighting each other for 80 YEARS would make peace because what, you decide it? How is that logical? The Institute views the Railroad as nothing but pests and thieves and the Railroad views the Institute as slavers, monsters and the Institute has been killing the Railroad for 80 years, killing their families, destroying their bases and safehouses. The Railroad had to rebuild from scratch THREE TIMES we know of all because of the Institute.

Now this point, I shouldn't even have to argue this point because it's so badly made. the Brotherhood in the commonwealth are still part of the Capital Wasteland BoS who are referred to as a country and function like a country. Just because they left DC doesn't mean they're instantly no longer BoS and thus a separate entity entirely. Also no, scribes are civilians and they're STILL 100% members of the BoS nationality and culture.

An American who goes to Europe is still an American, a soldier who goes into an active battlefield is still a citizen of their country. That doesn't change. You're not just killing off BoS, you're doing it because you are told to because of their ideology and the principles of their culture. THAT is genocidal.

No because ideology isn't driving the Expedition and as Danse shows Maxson can be convinced not to kill Gen-3 Synths, nor is there any attempt to round up Gen-3 Synths in the population after the Institute defeat.......so no your point isn't confusing, just not really based on the game.

Gen-3 Synths are are clear and present danger and machines are murdering, kidnapping and infiltrating humanity.....they appear to be free thinking (since they can pass for human) so as I said Maxson speech is bombastic but factually correct and since their are no openly Gen-3 to counter that impression its a perfect rational position to take.

If the Institute drops its slavery program, there's no reason to keep fighting. And really, once I make my offer, they can accept it, or they can try to kill me; either way, I win, because I'll have dealt with them in good faith. I wouldn't necessarily mind having to kill them if it didn't involve betraying them.

There is no genocide; you're fighting a military expeditionary force, not attempting to destroy a nation/culture/race. Moreover, it's an expeditionary force attempting an invasion of the Institute.

I make the distinction because while supporters use the Synth label, nobody in game consider Gen-1&2 as anything but machines so Synth freedom is all about one type of Synth.

I'd assumed that Danse was a Railroad Synth with a reprogammed memory of being a child in the Capital Wasteland but equally he could have been replaced at some point.

And what makes them believe you? For all they know it could be a trap, a trick and you are nothing but a traitor. Again you ignore that they've had to run and rebuild SEVERAL TIMES because of security breaches, because of people possibly like you. There is no peace for these people with the Institute and saying otherwise is pulling wool over your eyes.

There is fighting a military expedition and the reason why. The reason the Railroad does it is because they don't trust the BoS because of their philosophy and ideology. That is genocidal. At least the BoS makes it known they want to take on the Institute, hell if anything a truce between the BoS and RR is more likely then the absurd notion of peace between Institute and Railroad because at this point for the Railroad it's not just about synths, it's about all the pain and suffering the Institute caused the Railroad. But of course since the Railroad are bloodthirsty their first idea for the BoS is complete and total genocide of the BoS forces in the Commonwealth.

Well you asked the question.

You certainly seem to feel the point of the game is to save the Gen-3 Synths at any cost.

There is no logical reason why the Brotherhood would suddenly regard Gen-3 Synths as people, nothing in the game up to that point would cause this to happen.

There is no logical reason that the Railroad would make peace with the Institute, your appointment as Director would mean nothing......hell that 'you' could be a replacement Synth, you're constantly warned not to trust anybody.

There is no logical reason why the Institute would make peace with the Railroad or the Brotherhood.

Well every institute Synth you meet is also a part of the Institute military and just needed to armed. If we are counting Scribes who are considered Civilians and the Squires who aren't even armed then we must consider all the Institute Synths as combatants after all they are all armed when you assault the Institute.

Actually, no, I can think of one where I don't. When I sided with the Brotherhood I didn't wipe out the Railroad, just their leadership. So the number of dead there is minimal. Then when I went to destroy the Institute I sounded the evacuation, minimizing the casualties there. So really there was no wholesale slaughter of any humans at all.

And if they try to kill me for that, then at least I acted in good faith.

Forgive me, but that makes no sense. For one thing, the post I made was giving the Institute reasons to fight the Brotherhood, not the Railroad. For another thing, I'm pretty damned sure that genocide requires a concerted effort to destroy an actual people, which a military expedition is far too small a component of to count; you might call it terrorism, but it isn't genocide (and since it doesn't involve attacks on civilian targets, I wouldn't even call it that). For a third thing, the Railroad is fighting the Brotherhood because the Brotherhood intends to exterminate their charges.

Yeah, that's really not the case. The Institute's civilians will be completely boned in the wasteland.

That's an assumption on your part.

Your good faith is blind faith.

The Railroad fires the first shot at Bunker Hill, if you did the Railroad's starter quest and then go back to the Railroad HQ when the BoS arrive Des will be talking about taking out the BoS. The Railroad were never "peaceful" about it, the BoS never even fired the first shot at them. They fired first and they made themselves the enemy of the BoS. They didn't even take into consideration of contacting the BoS and trying to change their views or make peace, no those bloodthirsty terrorists only care about one thing, finding an enemy to fight.

Now, now, that's not entirely true. Des was more like, "They don't like synths, let's wipe them from existence."


For Des, the synths are more important to her than all the human lives aboard that ship, more important than all the human lives in the Institute.

Yeah, because to them Gen-3 Synths are the most important thing.

they probably would be......of course the population would be more welcoming without the decades of murder, kidnappings etc, that the Institute has been involved with in the area. Otherwise they would probably be more welcoming, since they would be valuable members of a community due to their medical knowledge etc.

Anyway didn't we already establish that human lives lost wasn't important.......why then would the deaths of a relatively small number of scientists (and families) matter?