Once again why should OTHER people try to control how OTHER people play

I could very well say that having NO stats just makes ppl NOT care about anything in game cause it doesnt matter, (OMG why is everyone just running around trying to find a way to get on a roof to somehow spawn camp cause they dont care how many times they die)

And people will just obsess of XP so your gonna end up with ppl BOOSTING eachother in co-op and single player because who cares how many time you let your buddies kill you

you wanna solve the K/D ratio???? just dont display the Ratio, then most ppl in America ( i.e ME ) dont have the math skills to figure out what our ratio is anyways

Or just display how many kills and with what weapons

With all the STYLE going into BRINK how come i get no STYLE points??????

Style points! Aw hell yeah! :lmao:

I voted "don't want." I'll try not to reiterate what most have said:

I agree that K/D tracking leaves people to focus on that ration out of fear of looking like a bad player - it also leads to focusing on something other than the objective. Moreover, it takes away from class responsibilities such as medics reviving teammates or it may lead to those classes being chosen less altogether. A team of 8 soldiers isn't going to complete objectives if they are constantly waiting on respawn timers. Also, I noticed a lot while playing Black Ops that people always check other players playercards, if they see stats they are afraid of, they will just back out - leading to long lobby waits. I think that if tracking is to be considered then tracking should follow objectives completions as well as how many times a player chooses a specific class. However this could again lead to issues like in WoW where only healers and pallys get chosen for squads and other characters go neglected.

Curious that one of the main arguments against stat tracking has been "I obsess over my KDR so I don't want it there to obsess over."

with this being a team based objective mode game, not having KDR tracked deturrents the stat [censored]s and encourages proper teamplay.

im totally fine with this.

Exactly, why cater to those who lack control over how they will play a video game

and having stats and challenges encourages ppl to stay IN games and not drop when things arent going their way, because the consequence for dropping a match is no bonus

if the only bonus is XP ppl will just keep searching for an easy game with a dominating team

If someone on your team is obsessed with killing why not use is to your advantage and get an objective done while hes being cannonfodder,

rather than saying NO, YOU HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK, SHOOTERS ARENT JUST ABOUT SHOOTING

Throwing stats like KDR out in the open paves the way for elitism and selfish playing.

I hate how BC2 wipes your KDR in your face after every match... I usually don't do all that badly really, but when I start going on a bad streak I'll start playing more defensively and reservedly... not killing or pushing so much in an attempt to not die so much. As somebody earlier posted, I'll "compete" with myself to maintain a decent KDR and my dignity.

Whereas on SOCOM:C I only play unranked matches (since I don't have a clan and care not for the competition) where though kills/deaths are shown, they aren't tracked or added to your all-time. In that game, I'm a LOT more willing to push forward, be aggressive, sometimes play recklessly - and overall I have a LOT more fun and enjoy myself, I don't feel this pressure to be a great player. I don't feel so [censored] when I get trampled and I'll stay in a match, even if it's clearly a lost cause.

God forbid you actually have to kill more than you die. IMO people will still play selfishly regardless of leader boards. When the game releases I'd like to see proof of you guys winning the majority of your games while playing on a team with players that get more deaths than kills. I look forward to it. Objectives or not guess what....you still have to kill people.

With good medics I can see it happening, easily. Of course we have to kill people.

Brink is an objective based team game with a side dish of shooting people in the face.

Watch me vs. a bunch of noob runners in Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.

I have 1st place, 5 kills, 8 deaths.

The guy in 2nd place has 15 kills and 4 deaths.

The guy in 3rd has 10 kills, 2 deaths.

Not ALL online games are about the quantity of kills.

And for Brink, YES, you will be killing, and YES, you will be dying, but NO, that WON'T be the main focus of the game - the OBJECTIVES will be - they earn more XP, and provide "hot zones" around which the majority of combat will take place. And when you're near the objective, the kill will be worth more.

Knock off the calling others selfish or suggesting they just can't control themselves. Present your cases for your side of the debate without calling names or putting others down for their views.

It doesn't help your case and it can result in warnings. Just present why or why not and why without personal attacks against those on the other side. :spotted owl:

Put a skilled team of good shooters/team players against a team trying to do the objectives but not the best at shooting and tell me who wins. I can't tell you how many times I'm shooting at the other team's best shooter and all I need is my teammate to help with a spray or whatever and he is nowhere to be found. Why? Because he is too busy "buffing" other players (healthpacks in RTCW) so I die and he revives me but by then the other more well coordinated team rushes and our chances of overcoming that are slim to none. YOU NEED KILLERS ON THE TEAM when you play against well coordinated skilled teams. Simple as that.

K/D ratio helps me see how I'm improving in the game as far as killing goes. Granted just because I'm a 2.0 or whatever isn't entirely telling of my skill but thats why things like objectives captured, overall xp, damage, etc should be part of it too. At least let me be the one to see it if you don't want a leaderboard. Even if there were a leaderboard I couldn't care less that other kids would think they are better due to a k/d ratio. They wouldn't win a match against my team and that's how I would prove it to them. My personal k/d ratio is just for me.

Some other dude said that he didn't play pubs seriously all the time and neither do I but at least end of match stats would show me how I did when I tried. But we don't even get that? I will never get why someone would takeaway features. Like Apple taking away Flash from the ipad/iphone.

See... Now your example makes more sense.

Yes, when BOTH teams are working on objectives, but one team is ALSO better at killing, then the MORE SKILLED team is obviously going to win.

But if you get a team who are average shots at best, and put them up against a team full of top-level players, but the top-level players focus ENTIRELY on killing, and NOT AT ALL on objectives, the players who are LESS SKILLED AT KILLING are going to win.

Even if they do have KDR sitting around 0.5

The game isn't directly about killing. Killing is secondary to completing objectives. It WILL be necessary at times, but it isn't the only thing you'll be worrying about - often it won't even be the MAIN thing you're worrying about.

That's a subjective view.

The endgame is the main focus, winning is the main focus. For some that means doing the objectives to reach the endgame, for some that means healing their teammates to reach the end game, for some that means killing those in the way to reach that endgame.

Everybody wants Brink to be "the game" they want, and it is in so far as it is going to let you do so many things to be the player, the character, you want to be, but that is not all it is because of how many other people want "the game" they want.

The point of the game is teamwork; taking the skills of each player and putting that together to win. Teamwork doesn't mean forcing a player to be something he's not, it means find a way to use the players abilities for the team.

For every player that is overly concerned about the KDR there's a player that isn't concerned enough. The ratio itself obviously isn't what's important, but your life everytime you respawn is even though "killing" isn't the main focus. Everytime you die you put your team at a disadvantage, everytime you kill you put your team at an advantage. If people want this game to work, everybody is going to need to accept that.

While you may not turn into a K/D obsessed [censored] who ruins the games for others, many people do, that's why it was removed.

And my point is that those type of players will still play that way. Your being naive. Those players don't have the team's interest at heart and you can give them 1 billion xp and a candy bar and they still won't play as a team. They just want to kill. That is what satisfies them. So the solution is to take a feature out of the game even though it won't fix the problem. I don't get it. Public matches will always have that problem in my humble opinion. It's looking like if I want ANY enjoyment from this game I will have to play when my friends are on or play clan matches exclusively because playing public matches now literally does NOTHING for me. I can't even see how I'm doing lol. Oh well.

The reason is its something to obsess over (see Skinner's Box). If they just want to kill they will play a soldier and proceed to go wreck up the enemy. That can easily work to your advantage.

I disagree. Some of these players will want to play as the medic...or heavy engineer with a turret or whatever. Whatever they think gives them an advantage they will do. It doesn't really matter though because SD has made their decision and we will both find out who is correct in a couple of weeks.

I dont think anyone should try and control what other people are going to obsess over, just my opinion

And really EVERY game is team-based, ppl wouldnt drop server in COD because ONE guy was stat padding, that just makes u want to kill him more, no ppl would drop when a FULL CLAN with VOIP joined up cause good or not even a team filled with half descent ppl will still prolly kick your ass, the smallest amount of team coordination makes all the difference

Brink has taken so many steps to encourage and enhance teamplay that taking away Stats i feel is a step too far and one step really unneeded

Exactly. Its not the features that changed the way shooters are played its the people playing them.

Well depending on the game and how much practice I get, I can usually maintain a 1.5-3.0 KDR. Not great, but not shabby. Hell, in MAG that was borderline-elite. I'd still rather KDRs, including mine, weren't publicized in that game because it's created a division in the community, to the point where on the forums some of the more elitist players disregard your opinions as a member and player if your KDR is below 2.0 and just call you "scrub". You just have to look to the CoD community to see how aggressive and abrasive people get over the stat. It makes for an incredibly un-welcoming gaming experience.

And FYI, I've played games of MAG where I've lost even though a majority of the enemy has gone negative - they got a LOT of kills and lot more deaths, because they pushed relentlessly and kept us worn thin. Positive KDR =/= game-winning.

Fact is, if KDRs are out in the open, they become a way of judging players. People will look to your KDR to derive your level of credibility. As a result, people begin to pad their stats almost. This is where that selfish play comes in, when people are more concerned with keeping a good KDR, than playing for the team... yenno, the way Brink's supposed to be played.

I'd love to forget about KDR but I can't. If I finish a round of BC2 and only get 1.3 I think "wow that was [censored], you can do better than that". It becomes particularly frustrating when lag and hit detection play a huge part. I'll get wound up trying to bring it up along with my self-esteem, even if it means losing the match because I don't give it my all on the objective side of things.

There may very well be selfish play in Brink, but not so much if KDR is abolished. It's best to keep that elitist element at bay.

So you only play a game to see how you're doing? Not to, you know, actually enjoy the experience of playing it?
I'm pretty sure that people who play Medic (myself included) do it to help the team and their fellows, and give the team an advantage... how else can someone with a k/d of under 0.3 be the most valuable player on the team?

Anyways, in Brink killing should be a means to an end (the objective), with the end justifying the means. People who kill and nothing else should not be able to flaunt themselves publicly as being 'better': a player (could be a soldier, could be an operative, could be any class) who focusses on killing the enemy to protect his teammates while they accomplish the objective will be a 'better' player for it.

You need killers, everyone is talking like it should be a secondary objective to kill. In almost every video I have seen some guy is laying down the death in a major way whoring up the kills moving up slowly. The is no way to escape this. What they do while whoring it up is also doing objectives. That is what drew me to the game, the intense action, hanging in there and getting the job done. I for one would love to know that I not only help the team win but went 5:1 doing it. Guess I am in the minority though. Also, hey whats up community.

I voted other purely because I'm no fussed either way. If stats are available I look at them but don't go out of my way to improve them, that'll happen as I gradually get better.

Welcome to the forums, if you haven't recieved your free copy of the Brink Bible and complimentary turtle someone will be along shortly to hand them out.

I've been trying this argument for a month, some days it works, some days it falls on deaf ears. I for one will be out there fighting to make sure my teammates can do the objectives or doing the objectives so my teammates can fight, but I don't really care which I have to do.

@Daystar: Some people play medic to get XP faster and don't actually care about the team at all.

And while I agree that killing is a means to an end I disagree about the end. The objectives are also a means to an end. The end is victory. The resistance and security are fighting for something beyond the objectives in front of them and beyond the bodies they have to step over. Killing, healing, arming, disarming, interrogating, disguising, etc. are all objectives of equal worth in a fight to the end, the trick is getting players to do the ones other than the killing. That is why other objectives are worth more XP, not because killing isn't of equal importance.