its cool. lets just agree that both factions have their own cool ...things about them CL is rome reborn and NCR's got that tight armor

Yeah, that actually makes a little bit more sense now that I know the NCR President will appear in the game. Where did I hear that they were cut off, then.... hm... I wouldn't remember it if it was just a rumor. Oh well.

The NCR were ALWAYS anti-slavery as far back as FO2 and the NCR and CL arrved in New Vegas at the same time, so they didn't exactly have a chance to hand ourt pamplets...

As for the genetic purity bit, I'm preferring to the antagonists of the first three games,, i.e. the Unity and Enclave.

I think that if the Legion never invaded Nevada then the NCR would not have done a good job (unhindered by the legion at all), because when the Legion finally did invade the NCR were hording power and poorly protecting people from dangers of the waste when they should have helped re-establish civility, if they truly want to re-introduce Democracy, Laws and Rules then why does it matter so much that they "the NCR" stay in Militant Control and have a strict control over supplies to the people?

I'm gonna go for NCR give me a set of that ranger armor and I'll take of CL while they get all there stuff together :tops:

I think it matters so much because, when you have factions like the CL and everyone whos trying to take it for their own needs and for control they wont have a chance to bring that all back, when you're in control of resources, you have people that will automatically follow you i.e. the desperate, the greedy, and everyone who just needs something. Along with that, i think the NCR may have plans to share the resources with the people, but like i said, they just need more structure and they need to really figure out their stuff, and get a gameplan going.

No ones going to know whos superior until we have the game and play it. Who knows the NCR could turn out to be all a big lie, and take everything for themself and slaughter off everyone LOL.

Thank you, I was not aware that the NCR and CL arrived in Nevada at the same time, however unlikely that seems.

As I stated before, I did not play FO2 so it's good to know they're anti-slavery. I still think that the NCR could have done a better job in Nevada though, taking over energy sources is a strategic plan yes and it stops the legion from getting them, but I still think they should have done more to better the lively hood of the people in Nevada and done a better job bringing/developing government, since those are some of their main goals, is it not? (honest question.)

As for the genetic purity response, I wasn't ever arguing about that topic, so I'll leave it be.

What if, in the game, some of the quests ARE to get the NCR back on their feet, and help the people?

The problem with this discussion that we have yet to learn a single redeeming trait about Caesar's Legion. Crucifying and killing people who don't like you is not 'creating order', that 's just simple thuggery. If they really are gray as the devs say, then there must be some aspect we just haven't heard or read about.

lol dude thats just your perspective.. in the wasteland future of fallout ethics may have taken a turn back 2000 years to the days of rome when such thing were accepted and even thought of as neccessary..

mhm, as it's been said, there's a lot of gray area. Really if you think about it, we probably know next to NOTHING about either of these factions. We're going off of what we know, i'm sure a lot of our opinions will change on tuesday (or whenever you're getting the game) :nod:

Personally, I think the NCR is pretty messed up, and if they were a goody two shoes type of organization, that'd be great I agree.

However, their structure is horrible and don't think they deserve a second chance when they messed up the first one so badly (in my book).

Much like the uncivilized world when Rome came to power I think that restarting our civilization should go through the paces again, if we try to skip ahead of ourselves, we're bound to repeat the mistakes that lead us to global war. (Aside from the whole alien intervention thing of the fallout-universe, talking about the RL situation, which I know you understand where I'm coming from.)

All in all, I'm playing an evil character my first playthrough so this whole polite debate is just to show people that the Legion isn't all bad, or at least have them look at it a second time.

Rome was a REPUBLIC, not a chain gang and the real Caesar was ELECTED because he had earned the people's trust and respect.

they still conquered other lands and took slaves....and even used those slaves in their army.. pretty sure on that last one at least

also who said that the caesar wasnt elected?

No, slaves were not allowed in the army. Instead, thety served their master until they had proven their loylty to Rome, THEN freed and allowed to serve in the army, which gave them the right to citizenship and voting.

Uhm... was that last bit a joke?

lol no it wasnt i didnt know but annyyywayyys what makes you professor CL ? do you actually know this or just speculatin

Well, I haven't played the game, but I was a history major in college.

Can we not fight or argue? we were all having a good debate. <_<

aight. nice spelling btw.

i wasnt arguing but k

I've already said that the legion itself could be horrible (because we just don't have enough information yet.), I was debating based upon the leaders of the factions for a good part of the discussion. To which "The Brother Hood" can vouch for. Caesar started the Legion after uniting tribals by teaching them the basics of survival and to stop fighting each other (teaching people to survive and to stop fighting over supplies is good yes?) and The Legion follows "at least somewhat" Roman principles, a single united nation(for lack of a better word) cannot goto war. So Caesars end-game goal (and as printed on his currency) is "Peace Through War".

CL also protects it's forces very well and provides safety to those who join the legion.

Killing off everyone who does not agree or at least follow your laws/rules does create order, however messy it may be, it's logically the same as having laws, and putting people in prison for breaking those laws. CL just makes sure that there are grave consequences for breaking the "law" and through fear there is order, it is in relation to a "dictatorship" if you think of --> Order as Justice, but order just means that there are rules or laws and that people are going to abide by them. (much like when a judge yells "order" in a courtroom, it is a call to yield all action and obey the rules.)

So there are your points of Redemption.

On a complete side-note, this one-post=per-minute is catching up with me pretty harshly lol.

Anywho, I'm curious how the NCR feels about non-slaver groups who don't eat puppies for breakfast. Do they respect New Vegas, the State of Utolbitha, or any of the other small towns? If they finally defeat CL, how exactly do they muster the ebnergy to finish taking over the Mojave Wasteland? If I were an NCR grunt and I had finally seen the conclusion of my four year tour in New Vegas, and suddenly I recieve orders to march on that super mutant fortess in the mountains...? I would hang up my gun and just walk back home.

same

Uhm, I don't think the war is over CL being a slaver group. There was actually slavery going on outside of an NCR city in Fallout 2, wasn't there? I might be mistaken. I don't think the NCR is this holier-than-thou anti-slavery fighting force five like you seem to think. I think it's just that CL is just as large and powerful as the NCR and they both want control over the area. Remember the NCR is imperialistic.

The CL isn't as big as the NCR but they are just as powerfull, thus why they're at a stalemate, even though the NCR has current control of hoover dam, the CL is holding their own in taking it. I think my opinions are slowly changing, but i'm still thinking NCR is a bit better, but once again tuesday i'll figure out who i want to support. :homestar: