exactly, but i'm doing my roleplaying playthrough first, just because i have that "i don't know anything about this game" feeling, and i think it'd be a better expierence, but on my 2nd playthrough ill be joining CL (or maybe a smaller faction) for the expierence. :shifty:

I think (despite the fact that they have good intentions and the closest thing to 'government') a city state in New vegas would be best, I'd put someone better than Mr. House for the job of leader though,

NCR is better than Ceaser's Legion. But Brotherhood of steel is better than both. NCR is falling apart, adn unfit to rule, unless there are some serious changes.

Brotherhood is also falling apart.

This is somewhat unrelated but this sentence got my brain jogging. Roman slavery....it wasn't the slavery you would normally think of. It's not like the slavery we saw in Fallout 3 or the slavery prominent during the Colonial Era. Slaves were pretty much guaranteed freedom at one point and by Roman law they were treated with some amount of respect. A slave owner couldn't just kill or heavily beat his slaves or something like that. Now most of this was probably only because of the logic "if I make them depressed and hurt they won't get much work done" but that's besides the point. We're not arguing Roman ethics here. Anyway; there's the possibility that slaves in CL are treated the same way. Food for thought.

NCR wants Hoover Dam for to provide power for the Mojave, and to control that power. I theorize the CL may want to destroy/open the dam to provide a large river for farming, at the cost of a power supply and the loss of any settlements in the river's path. Just a theory, but plausible, no?

I assume Caesar wants the Hoover Dam for the same reason Colonel Autumn wanted Project Purity. If you can control the local resources, people will need and follow you. The NCR's motives are probably more benign, but still recognize the strategic value of Hoover Dam.

lol why wouldnt CL want the energy to?

Yeah, but We're kind of in the dark so far, like The Pitt, Ashur says "We call them 'Workers' it keeps up moral." his underlings don't feel the same way, but they're not in charge, then it goes to how much of a hold does Ashurs have on his slavers. I doubt the generals and soldiers of CL are kind or forgiving, but from little hints that we've been given, like CL coins saying "Peace Through War" on them It lets us into Caesar's head a bit.

If CL is all for killing and brutal slavery my opinions will likely change, but from what I've seen that's my opinion. But the Devs wanting "lots of Gray" makes me feel that CL isn't as evil as people make them out to be.

See, i like your opinions on things, and i like how you can have a civilized debate about something that seems to draw major conflict on this forum. I think Caesar would get the job done faster, but once again.. with Caesar, he wants to control by taking over completely and being in complete control of EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, and he may seem great now, but i think if he got full control of the mojave wasteland, and vegas as a whole, he would be a very corrupt person (as he seems now). The military (coming from the slaver background) would be cruel and quite controlling. With the NCR you're saying they're worried about obtaining power of all the resources and worried about the politics. I think when you're in a situation like that, that's how you'd start off bringing back a normal civilized democracy. If you think about it, the NCR is kind of "just starting out" if you'd like to word it like that. Once the NCR has control of all the remaining resources, and has the majority following them, they can ration out the resources which would bring peace to most people, and they would bring the laws, and rules that are fundamental for running a civilization. Idk if it's true but i've seen around the forums that eventually you can take control of the faction or something? in a RP'ing sense, once you're leader you can basically do anything you want to a certain extent. If you were leader with all the resources and everyone looking up to you, you could really make a change for the better (especially since everyone in that situation is looking for someone who will shelter and provide to their needs).

as for the IRL roleplay haha! yeah exactly those things are vicious, but i think NCR has the most protection, they have the most men and most area (as far as i know)

Hmmm.. lightbulbs, casinos, and AC, or a massive amount of food and water, and the population boosts that can bring?

lol damn ive been logic-pwned

In case any of you are interested, there's another long and very recent thread on this exact same topic.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1120812-thoughts-and-speculations-on-the-ncr/

Well, we've basically seen "pure evil" in CL so far with Vulpes Inculta. The guy dealt with the population of a conquered town with a "lottery." Losers were forced into the CL army and the winners were crucified. This really makes me think we're going to end up with another Ashur situation.

My thoughts exactly! but i don't know if thats what the CL wants it for, i don't think they'll destroy it. Hoover Dam has water, something everybody needs.. it's a strategic move to have it. Then they can turn everyone on their side and take control.

They could just take control the old-fashioned way and use the river to turn the Mojave into a breadbasket province after destroying(letting the waters flow) the dam.

Hoover Dam is a great energy source, and as an educated man Caesar wouldn't want it destroyed.(The damn prevents flooding in the region so it wouldn't be destroyed for agricultural purposes) I'd like to think that CL is fighting for more than control over energy sources, but we don't know much yet. Taking said sources of energy would be a great tactical move, obviously, but the Legion didn't come to Nevada to force people to follow them because of a power source, if you don't want to follow the legion they'll most likely just kill you, the power sources are just extra gain.(in theory, after the Legion was set into a stalemate they may have a "Need" for the energy source, instead of just a "Want".

The NCR currently control Hoover Dam and Helios1 but as an operation they fail in my book. Taking over energy sources and sources of supplies to strengthen their army first over helping people or reimplementing democracy (since that is their "supposed goal"). They should have strengthened existing supply routes and energy sources for the people and built a government right away instead of sticking with a Strict Militant Rule for as long as they have.

I guess I feel that CL has more of their ducks in a row than the NCR...

Aren't they trying to take control the old fashion way? they're killing everyone to get what they want.

I understand where you're coming from but it's kind of hard to help the people when you have the CL and other factions trying to steal your resources. And from what i know, the NCR is helping the people, they just aren't to organized about it. From what i know, they need a new leader and thats where i'm gunna try and come in. :whistling:

Exactly, the dam is just phase 2 in this conspiracy theory of mine.

Sorry, i'm just kind of confused on your theory. Do you agree, that the CL is going to turn out to be very corrupt, and they really arent suited to be in control? :shifty:

man CL is gonna be the bomb... CL ftw

Suited to be in control? Yes. Corrupt? Maybe. Suited to making the people happy? **** NO!

Thats a personal opinion. When i actually play the game and learn more about the CL, i'll decide. Right now i don't think they're fit to be in control, but if i have a few good reasons (that no one knows yet) to think they are, my opinion will change. :goodjob:

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but New Vegas itself would be a massive boon to the NCR. A working, defensible city with robots, businesses, clean water, electricity, and population? And no radiation? Hoover Dam is only really useful if you control New Vegas as well. Add a Caesar's Palace and voila! New Rome!

new vegas is only useful if you control hoover dam... otherwise you just have a bunch of powerless, worthless buildings..