Previous topic http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1451803-opinions-on-ulfric-and-tullius/

Tdroid: "So, I simply want to know your opinion on the leader of each side. Nothing more, nothing less. If this derails to a discussion about which side in the Civil War is better, I'll have it closed. Discussing back and forth about the individuals is okay."



Tullius : The typical imperial general, confident in his knowelge and strategy (which of course, is not always right). He is loyal to the empire for what I see. Not brilliant, but efficient.
Ulfric: He is blinded by his ambition, whose goal is a right one and honorable. But the way and the timing he is using to carrying it out seems to be the worst. So he is pure heart and no brains.

I'd actually have to disagree, Tulius showed his intelligence quite often sure he wasn't understanding to the nord ways at first but as you progress on the imperial side he starts to accept it and learn their ways.

Tullius : Thinks he and all of the Legion can win it all without thinking for himself only listening to his leaders.

Ulfric : Knows what he can and can't do. He knows he can win the war and will win it for all of the Nords and any other Talos follower.

Just what I think really. Tullius wears cool armor

As a former Empire supporter in previous games turned Stormcloak, I agree and I think Tullius would make an awesome solider, but as a leader ehhhh .

True we don't know for sure that the empire is preparing to fight the thalmor. Yet we do know that the thalmor will at some point invade Cyrodiil. when that happens would it be best for a unified empire with the fierce nords in its ranks to stand against the dominion. Or would it be best for the empire to have torn itself apart in a bloody civil war allowing the dominion possible victory in Cyrodiiil. Then what Skyrim stands by itself against a victorious dominion ?. Allies may be called upon but would they flock to the defence of Skyrim ? with the empire finished and cyrodill defeated the rest of Tamriel would be in big trouble. Its just possible that a war with the empire would leave the dominion vulnerable and over stretched allowing the Nords of skyrim to march in kick thalmor butt and take control of Cyrodiil. I admit that's an appealing thought but it wouldn't actually destroy the dominion. A destruction of the dominion I believe would of been far more likely with no civil war Ulfric would of been better off using his position as Jarl to press the high king to insist that the empire take military action against the thalmor. Instead he has made a play to grab power and take control of skyrim for himself.

None of this is very important though as the civil war quest is unlikely to have any bearing whatsoever on any future TES game.

Yes , he is intelligent but its not brillant.
Lets say, if he were brilliant, as lets say Julius Caesar, with his small force he would be able to take Skyrim fast. But he is stuck. That does not means he is not a very good general. But its mostly passive.
In the ohter hand, ulfric is pure heart, pure veins. But not even a good general.
That is, perhaps why they are stuck . Them both combined could make the perfect general.

I actually think its more of a resource problem, Tulius has to deal with forsworn, bandits and pirates which stop supplies from fully reaching his troops whereas Ulfric has the home territory advantage and doesn't have to deal with bandits since the bandits only attack non-nord settlements and caravans so Ulfric doesn't have to worry about stormcloak shipments from getting lost.

I'd say Caesar was more like Ulfric then Tullius. Brave, aspiring and charismatic and unwilling to give up. His tactical side like Ulfric kind of leaves a little more to be desired though.

Except Caesar was also an excellent politician whereas Ulfric hasn't shown any political intelligence.

Ulfric: Decent, honorable, intelligent man who leads the Stormcloaks.

Tullius: Decent, honorable, intelligent man who leads the imperial forces in Skyrim.

True, but unlike Sulla Caesar wasn't careful or clever enough and look what happened to him

Hmmm the same thing could happen to Ulfric if his rule doesn't end up being the golden age the stormcloak supporters think will happen.

He did a fine job turning half of the most pro-Empire province against them, and by putting Torygg in a political check mate.

He just wants the Thalmor out of Skyrim and for Talos worship to be reinstated as well as Skyrim's independence which is all accomplished after the end of the Stormcloak victory. Nothing more.

Right but leading a country is hard and there is always someone ambitious trying to take over or to get more land.

For that matter, Mede II would have made an excellent soldier (He's a excellent warrior and fine tactician). Alas he was born emperor...

That's probably why Ulfric used the Thuum on Torygg. To send a message to anyone who dares messes with him that he is a adept of the revered thuum.

Well Ulfric isn't general at all. He is leader, talented to be king and have good sense for politics. His actions have proved it. Dueling Torygg and after the war letting Elisif to stay as Jarl of Solitude are good examples of his understanding about politics. He is not even needed to be general because he have his own general Galmar Stone-Fist on his side. Galmar indeed is valid general and good warrior.

The thing is Ulfric is far from a tongue, its still possible that someone will try to usurp him through the use of assassins or in an actual revolt.



Your political stand-point would make more sense if he actually had any debates or if we had any knowledge of him winning debates but as far as we know he hasn't shown any political intelligence in-game or in lore.

Few people alive in Skyrim have even seen the thuum let alone be able to use it. With the Imperials gloating that Ulfric shouted Torygg to pieces, I believe any assassin or warrior would think twice before trying to mess with someone capable of such a feat.

I can mention one group of psychotic killers that would kill anyone for the right price and if Ulfric makes the wrong diplomatic dealings among foreigners or his own jarls he could risk losing one or being a target for a revolt.

At least leaving Elisif to stay as a Jarl is in-game considered as a political-wise action. You'll get to know that if you discuss about it with NPCs.

that group of psychotic killers has problems killing rabbits without the help of the Dovahkiin

An assassin wouldn't be facing him in open combat. The Thu'um wouldn't be useful if he didn't know he needed it. That being said, his knowledge of the Thu'um would probably prevent people from trying to take the throne the way he did.

That is more of a personal opinion really, it could be said that Elisif would end up losing the people because she most likely wouldn't have the funds to repair solitude so that could be seen as more of a way of punishment by forcing her to witness the fall of her hold and Ulfric doesn't really help in that matter whereas Tulius gets the empire to rebuild the siege ruined parts of windhelm after the siege of windhelm.