As the title states, I seem to have lost all NPC oral rumor responses in Cyrodiil. I first noticed this several hours ago, and suspect it occurred this morning following my updating three mods (AFK_Weye, Kragenir's Death Quest, and UL Skingrad Outskirts), and cleaning two others via TES4edit's two auto functions. It's possible the responses disappeared before that, but not too much sooner since the loss is very apparent. My only other recent mod change was updating to UOP Supplimental 3.30 yesterday or the day before. I'm 200% positive oral rumor responses functioned until quite recently.

Mods that add their own rumor responses seem to be fine. Bartholm NPCs still respond orally. Added Kragenir rumor text replies are there. Shivering Isles (which I visited for the first time this play-through to test the problem) NPCs still give proper oral rumor responses. So far as I can determine, all other options in an NPCs dialog response tree are unaffected, whether oral or text, vanilla or mod-added. It's only vanilla oral rumor replies that aren't there any more.

Kragenir is a prime suspect because it was one of today's updates (from 2.0 to 2.02a) and of course adds rumors of its own. So far as I know neither AFK_Weye nor Skingrad Outskirts touch rumors

I can of course revert to my pre-upgrade BAIN packages, and/or easily revert back to pre-cleaned ESPs, which will likely solve the issue. I'll do that if this inquiry doesn't produce a more satisfactory solution. What I'd like to do is track down the problem with TES4edit. Seems to me it has to be some universal setting that got switched from on to off (or set at zero, or whatever). Finding and correcting that would let me keep all today's work (which seems to have resolved or at least lessened a minor infrequent CTD issue). Only, I haven't the foggiest idea what to look for. I launched TES4edit and loaded all mods. Even found a heading (or rather a sub-heading) for RUMORS. But best I can tell that only shows the various rumors (and which mods use them) without any indication of whether they are functional or not. Nothing in that particular RUMORS section appears in red to flag a conflict. I'm pretty sure everything there was either green or at worst yellow. In any case those are indications for individual rumors rather than the universal switch I seek.

It's my bedtime, so I have the night to sleep on it. I'm hoping that in the interim some of our mod experts will chime in with instructions on how to find and correct this with TES4edit (assuming it's findable and fixable).

Thanks in advance!

-Decrepit-

Well load order is always helpful.

I've experienced this to a very limited degree with older quest mods that would take the rumors topic away and you don't even notice it for a while. Tears of a fiend did that for some rumors.

I forget the exact entry it is for generic rumors but it is not hard to find in tes4edit.

Most likely it will mean deactivating a few mods to see the effect.

I think you need to check the rumors in the CS to find out which sound files are used.
Then check to see if they are located where they should be.
I can't see any way to find out this using TES4EDIT.

Hehe, weird coincidence that Psymon should reply at the same time to a question buried on page 12. :wave:

Page 12 - it was on page 1 for me?

And I'm pretty sure that there is an entry for generic rumors you can look up in tes4edit. But where - I forget.

Heh, you're right, it was on page 1. Was reading page 12 in another browser window.

You can look up the dialogue in TES4EDIT and edit the text, but I can't see any entries that point to the sound files.

No I was just thinking to see if other mods overrode the rumor entry.

Cant't you just get it back by undeleting refs via tes4edit?
I always thought,that's what it's supposed to be .. to restore,what have been deleted, like in your case.

OP here.

Just woke and am still a bit too groggy to start in restoring pre-updated/cleaned mods. I will point out something I failed to mention last night... when I say oral vanilla rumor responses are missing, I of course mean not only the oral reply but also what would have been the accompanying text narrative. It's not like there's a pause or anything where a response would and should have been. I ALWAYS get a response, but it's always one supplied by either Kragenir or another mod (or Shivering Isles).

(It seems to default to Kragenir responses, which is why I consider it my prime suspect. But I've updated and cleaned Kragenir numerous time in the past (I've been a fan since its initial release) and never run in to this issue before.)

I also neglected to mention that this occurs whether using my original Bash Patch (which I initially forgot to rebuilt after yesterday's updates) or the newly re-built one.

-Decrepit-

Well now wait - I use Kragenir and Cliffworm's two dialogue mods - I rarely ever hear vanilla rumors. I think it has to do with ratio - the more mod added rumors there are the more likely they will appear.

I have heard them though - and yeah after not hear rumors and being used to reading they always take me by surprise.

As modded as my game is it seems about more than half of all dialogue is now unspoken.

I think it's rather strange to request others to find the answer to a problem which only you can resolve. If it happened after installing new mods or upgrading some mods, then one of those mods has caused it. So disable them again, and find out which restores the vanilla rumours. Then you know which one mod you need to look at to see if it can be fixed in TES4Edit, or report it to the mod author so they can fix it.

Now that you've clarified that the rumours as a whole are missing, not just the oral (sound file) part with text still present, it seems most likely that what Psymon suggested in the post just before mine is the case - you've added mods which increase the number of overall rumours available to the game, so now there's a lower chance of the vanilla ones being chosen.

I too initially wondered if maybe I just ran into a string of bad luck with oral vanilla rumor responses. But after noticing their total absence I made a point of roaming IC and talking with every NPC I came upon, guards and civilians alike. That's a lot of NPCs. To a man/woman, they all gave Kragenir rumor responses. The sole exception was an NPC placed in IC by the Bartholm mod, who responded to my rumor inquiry with the Bartholm specific (non vanilla) statement about recruitment on the Isle of Slarth. I then traveled to Bravil, with no better luck. From there I entered Shivering Isles where, as mentioned, rumors still work as intended.

All that said, I still can't totally rule out extraordinary bad luck. And as was mentioned earlier maybe I entered some quest phase that temporarily disables vanilla rumors, though I recall nothing similar occurring during my first play-through. But having done those updates/cleanings yesterday that sounds the most likely cause. As mentioned, I recall getting a good healthly mix of vanilla and Kragenir responses not too terribly long ago.

-Decrepit-

Yeah, my first step will be to revert back to Kraginer 2.0 and see if vanilla responses return. If they do I'll next try Kraginer 2.02a without cleaning the ESP and see what happens. Of course it might not have anything to do with Kragenir, but we shall see.

As to why I'm asking for advice, I had hoped that some modder or savvy mod-user would chime in and say "Open TES4edit, load all mods, look for so-and-so sub-heading, find a certain adjustable parameter, and insure it is set to such-and-such value". Doing it that way would let me keep all my updates and changes, which I'm otherwise happy with. I'd also learn a bit more about modding in the process. But I'm certainly capable of restoring mods to the state they were in prior to yesterday if need be.

-Decrepit-

Kragenir's Death Quest adds a large number of rumors but as Psymon said, the more custom rumors you add, the smaller the chance of hearing a particular one, like the vanilla rumors.

To solve this somewhat I've divided up the rumors in different level groups. Certain rumors only appear when the player is between level 1 and 5, others between 6 and 10, others between 10 and 15, something like that. That way the vanilla rumors should still appear often enough. What level are you?

You can also completely disable the rumors added by KDQ with the console command 'stopquest PovRumors', or reactivate them with 'startquest PovRumors'.

Thanks for the input Povuholo!

Due to the nature of KDQ I almost posted my inquiry on its official thread rather than start this one. But since I can't (yet?) pin the issue on Kragenir with any certainly, I felt that wouldn't be fair.

As to avatar level, he's 35 (I just double-checked in Wrye-Bash). Most of the rumors I "hear" now are about that Inn in Kvatch. (What's up with that anyway, since there is no Inn there following the city's destruction ... unless of course one uses a Kravtch rebuilding mod?) The one I hear next-most often is about the guy sleeping in the Arboretum (but then I've been in IC a lot recently).

I'll write down those two commands and try 'em in-game before attempting anything else. IF vanilla rumor responses reappear after doing so, does it mean that the fault lies with Kragenir (or my cleaning of it)? And can I assume that if vanilla responses DON'T reappear then KDQ is in the clear? Maybe I oughta just launch the game and see eh?

Thanks again. I'll report back later!

-Decrepit-

I think the last rumor group is for level 20 and higher. I haven't played with a level 20+ character in my game yet so it could be that some of the rumors appear too frequently. I've been playing up to level 12 now and in the last releases I've already tweaked things a bit to make some rumors from those groups less common.

It could be that the rumor group for level 20+ is bigger than the rest or that those rumors have a high chance of appearing (I've filtered many by race/six too to avoid too much repetition). Because most of those rumors will keep popping up for the rest of the game I should probably make them rare.


I think the Inn rumor is about the Gottshaw Inn near Kvatch. Edit: No it's not. I'll change it to refer to the Inn in the past tense. If you're already being worshipped as the hero of Kvatch it makes no sense that people still speak about Kvatch as if it's fine.

If you disable the rumours and the vanilla rumors don't come back then KDQ is not the problem. If they do reappear, I doubt it's anything that you have done that could've caused KDQ to do this.

I launched Oblivion and used "stopquest PovRumors" while in the IC market district. VOILA! Vanilla responses returned to those NPCs I spoke with. I then restored your Rumors with "startquest PovRumors". Clicked on the NPCs I'd just talked with. They still gave vanilla responses. All other NPCs (that I hadn't spoken with during "stopquest PovRumors") were back to giving only KDQ rumor replies. I used "stopquest PovRumors" again (without reloading my save). Oddly, some NPCs (those I'd talked with after typing "startquest PovRumors") still gave KDQ rumor replies! All others gave vanilla rumor responses.

Not sure what's up with that unless one needs to wait three game-days to let NPC a.i. reset before things settle down?

In any case, KDQ does indeed seem to be affecting the situation. Good to know that my auto-cleaning of the ESP (which I've done for Kragenir since release 1.0) can't have caused the issue. I guess my next step is to revert to version 2.0 and see what happens.

It might even be, as you say, that KDQ rumors are set too high at my avatar level. Only, I'm pretty sure I was getting a healthy mixture of Kragenir/Vanilla until VERY recently. In any case reverting to 2.0 might shed light on the situation.

-Decrepit-

I've continued to tweak the rumors a bit since 2.0, mostly to reduce it, but I don't remember doing anything that could have increased the frequency. I don't think I touched the level 20+ ones at all recently.

Anyway I just made some changes, so you could try the next version when it's released (today or tomorrow) and see if it's better.

Yes, I was surprised too, since I recall when you reduced the Kragenir-to-vanilla rumor ratio some version back. And as mentioned, I felt the ratio was quite good with 2.0. I'll definitely give the coming update a go soon as it's released. In the meantime I might still revert to 2.0 and see what happens. Having kept my BAIN package (I hope) the switch should go smoothly. And since I spent "most" of my time after doing those updates yesterday working on AFK_Weye and Region Revive - Lake Rumare quests I doubt that reverting back will break anything in KDQ.

-Decrepit-

An interim update...

Reverted from KDQ 2.02a to 2.0. Launched Oblvion and loaded my most recent save. Talked with quite a few IC Market District NPC guards and civilians. I STILL got only Kragenir rumor responses. Thinking the problem might be confined to IC, I fast traveled (for the first time this play-through!) to Leyawiin, which I hadn't visited in some time. Still only Kragenir rumor responses. I was about to give up, then remembered my comment about giving NPCs time for their A.I. packages to re-set. I proceeded to rest (just standing in-place on the street, of course using the "T" key) for three-and-a-half game-days. VOILA, vanilla rumor responses resumed! Kragenir responses still exist, but in their proper ratio (vanilla seem more common). What more, I got some Kvatch Rising related rumor responses that I'd never heard before. (But then, having just recently finished the main quest I'm only now at the phase where they would kick in.)

So the issue seems temporary, at least with KDQ_2.0 installed. I'll now restore 2.02a and go through the same steps as above (FT to Leyawiin, rest 3 1/2 days, see what happens). With any luck that'll be okay too.

Wish me luck.

-Decrepit-

Semi-final report (?) ...

Restored KDQ 2.02a (from 2.0). Launched Oblivion. Loaded my most recent save. Talked with two IC Market District guards...both gave Kragenir rumor responses. Immediately fast-traveled to Leyawiin. Rested (via "T") three-and-a-half days. Talked with numerous NPCs. VOILA! Got a healthy mixture vanilla, KDQ and those new Kvatch Rising rumor responses. Fast-traveled to IC Market District. Talked with numerous NPCs. Got plenty of vanilla and a few KR rumor responses, but no KDQ responses. Zoned in to Elven Gardens. Finally got a few KDQ replies there, though their ratio was low (compared to what it was before this odd issue began).

So it looks as if my problem is not due to a mod-update or ESP-cleaning error, though the work I did yesterday seems to have somehow triggered the vanilla rumor loss. That's assuming this whole episode isn't the result of some diabolic Sheogorathian prank perpetrated to eat away my play time.

I've one final question on this issue (if issue it is) before wrapping things up and hopefully resuming uninterrupted game-play. I'm something of a role-player and immersionist. I do not like to rest my avatar unless it makes in-character sense for him to do so (night-time, rest after tough dungeon crawl or evening excursion, etc.) Even when I need to wait an hour or two before an NPC becomes available (store opening, morning wake, etc.) I normally fill the time with either spell practice or if near an Inn go there and buy provisions, sit down and eat (after which I do allow myself an hour rest with "T", considering it after-meal relaxation). What I'm getting at is that I don't really want to use "T" for a three-and-half day rest. I'd rather just play on as-is and hope that the situation will resolve itself in three-and-a-half game-days. But will it? If there's any chance that it won't I'll most definitely resort to extended "T". I may be immersionist, but not to the point it borks the game.

So what should it be? T-rest or play-it-out and hope for the best?

Thanks to all who are contributed thus-far. Special thanks to Povuholo, whose insight into KDQ steered me what is apparently the correct diagnostic procedure.

-Decrepit-

Many of the rumors are specific to certain cities, so asking for rumors in different cities will give different results. You won't hear the rumor about the guy in the Arboretum district from anyone outside the IC. In fact that one is even limited to male IC citizens.

I'd say upgrade to 2.03 when I release that in a few hours or so, and just keep playing as normal. I think everything will work out fine.

You might check the priority level on the povrumors quest. 85 seems awfully high and will heavily weight the system into picking something from there first. Might try setting that to 50 or so and see what happens.

Well now...

Updated to KDQ 2.03. Launched the game. Loaded my most recent save. Talked with many IC NPCs in both the Market District and Elven Gardens. Vanilla rumor responses are back to normal! In fact KDQ rumor responses are now extremely rare, at least in IC. I didn't even need to wait three game-days! They were there from the get-go.

I'm not getting those nice Kvatch Rising rumor replies now. My guess there is that they aren't due to kick in for several more game-days, and I got 'em earlier today only because of needing to rest to restore vanilla responses. We shall see.

-Decrepit-

Now that I think of it, I think it used to be lower than 85, but I changed it a bit to see if it would make a difference. Maybe that's why Decrepit was having these issues now but not before. I didn't notice a real difference in my game though. Still, maybe it does matter so I already lowered it to 50 for v2.03.