What do we know or think about the myths and world-views of the Orsimer?

The only thing I can think of is that story of Trinimac and their creation.
They were originally Aldmer - and ardent ones at that, as they tried to oppose the Velothi exodus - but considering their transformation into barbaric pariah-folk, I don't think that Aldmeri ideologies would remain a part of their culture to any large degree.

At first I was thinking that perhaps we haven't seen much of their culture because they're uncivilized brutes and as such don't have much culture to see, but on further thought it seems that's not really a fair characterization of them. And even if they are barbarians, that shouldn't preclude the existence of a rich mythos and cosmology. In fact, in the real world civilized folk tend to have much less developed forms of those things than the "barbarians" do.

One more thing; Why is Dumac called "Dwarf-Orc"?

It's Orsimeri, I believe.

But yeah, being that their patron deity is the pseudo-Daedra-lord of exile and ostracism, I imagine that their culture and myths centers around a national victim complex with a heaping helping of "might is right" for flavor. That being said, you're right to assert that they really don't deserve to be called 'barbarians'. Goblins are Barbarians, having no detectable culture or lifeways outside of mindless pillaging (I don't think those tribe totems had any religious significance and were simply the pride-born tokens of an overwrought piss-taking contest).

Which is different from 'culture' how? I'm sure goblins find their mythology perfectly adequate.


Orsimeri (thanks) culture has so far only been hinted at. However, the frequent comments about sophisticated metal-working- and the quality of Orcish products- would suggest a more complex society and material culture than the 'barbarian' label might lead us to think. Likewise, the Orcs have (or at least had) some kind of leader- these are not disparate tribes like the goblins, incapable of acting together. They have a sense of their own identity and possibly some kind of social hierarchy.

Betmeri.

Betmeri? Beast-mer?

This isn't official, but its so good it should be. It'd be great if it was included in skyrim. It's the orc creation myth from the temple zero site.
http://www.monkeytruth.net/texts/orccreation.shtml

Of course they do. But I've never met a Goblin that didn't act like an obnoxious snot, so I'm not really inclined to care :tongue:

Somewhere in the Imperial Library, Dumac was linked to Trinimac somehow or other, and all the interlinking stuff made sense calling Dumac "dwarf-orc," though now it doesn't seem to make so much sense anymore and I forget the reason anyway (apart from Dumac being likened to Trinimac, but that could also be wrong). It might be in Wulfharth's various songs where it made sense to me, but don't quote me on it. This makes me want to figure out why he's called dwarf orc now (again). That's hopefully pointing you in the right direction to your second question's answer.

As to your primary query, I am also interested in orc mythology, so I'm curious to see what comes up.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I was going to say re: Dumac, it's possible the Nords call him that simply because they wished to vilify him and portray him as a barbarous as an orc.

EDIT again: Here we go, from song five of King Wulfharth, "not before King Wulfharth killed King Dumalacath the Dwarf-Orc." Read also http://www.imperial-library.info/content/orsimer-studies, some forum-goers explain instances of Malacath and Dumac down near the end of the discussion (control+f: dumac, or dwarf-orc).

Entry from "Dumac" in the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/definitive-guide-dwemer: "Also called Dumac Dwarfking or Dumac Dwarf-Orc by his enemies."

Well, Dumac is called "Dumalacath" in Wulfarth's songs.

Though that may just be the Nords showing their bias.

There's also a chapter of the Pocket Guide to Empire 3rd (though it would have been written before the Oblivion Crisis):

In 3E 399, however, a new Orc visionary, Gortwog gro-Nagorm acquired the land near the former site of Orsinium, and began to construct a new city for his people. Graced by statues of Orc heroes such Mauloch and Torug, and built of iron, Nova Orsinium seemed destined to provoke the same reaction by its neighbors as its predecessor did. Gortwog, however, proved a diplomatic as well as a political genius, and his land has prospered. Following the events of the Miracle of Peace, it now encompasses a substantial territory of central High Rock, and its application for elevation to Provincial status is under review by the Imperial authorities. Its recent alliance with its former foe in Wayrest shows promise for a stable future.

The only troubling sign for Orsinium is a religious conflict that has brewed over the last ten years. Traditionally, the Orcs have worshipped the Daedra Malacath (Mauloch) as their patron deity. Gortwog, however, has established a new priesthood devoted to the worship of Trinimac, the ancient hero of the Orcs, who legend has it was devoured by Boethia and became the Daedra Malacath. The Orc King's belief that Trinimac still lives and that Malacath is a separate entity, a demon whose aim was to keep the Orsimer pariah folk forever, is the official position of the shaman priests of Orsinium. A minority of traditionalists within the territory, and the majority of Orcs without, view this as heresy. There is fear among those who support Gortwog and Orsinium that turning their back on the Daedric Prince of the Bloody Oath is dangerous policy indeed. (from Imperial Library website)

Although he's long dead by the time of "Skyrim", I hope King Gortwog survived the Oblivion Crisis and this religious controversy.

Makes sense. As outcasts, their god was an outcast, but now that they're becoming an accepted part of civilization...

I hope that goes somewhere in the two hundred years between the PGE3 and Skyrim, and we see some social and religious changes in the Orcs.
Maybe then we'd get a bit more of their culture and mythos, as well.

I'm hoping for split between Malacath and Trinimac worship.

I have to wonder than, whose side would they be on? Would the Trinimac guys identify more with the altmer, stick it with men, or continue to be alone? Same with the Malacath guys.

That depends. Do the Trinimac worshipers believe they would become mer again through proper worship? If they do, I'd imagine they might side, or attempt to side with (Not sure if the Domain would even accept them) with the Altmer. I'd imagine the Malacath guys would stay separate, however.

I have a feeling the orsimer, who worship Trinimac, are wanting to go back to being the mer they used to be.

Raises an interesting question: do Orcs generally consider themselves cursed and deformed? Aside from being held in poor esteem by everyone else, that is. Does an Orc look in the mirror and think 'I'm a monster'? Might make the mer option a hard sell if not. It sounds like an interesting development, though. Do the Trinimacites remove their tusks? Will we see Malacathians sporting the Osimeri equivalent of afros?


@HQ: I never said goblins weren't loathsome- just that they might have reasons for being loathsome.

But would the Altmer tolerate them amongst their armies?

They took in the bosmer.

i thought they were forced more than anything.

I've read discourse on the idea that Dumac used science-magic to recreate the curse of Malacath, leading him to be referred to as Dumalacath as some and Dwarf-orc by others. I am not entirely sure what this entails, however. (This is where I wait for someone more knowledgeable to come and save me).

I would think so. The Altmer are consumate sorcerors, which is in and of it's self. But a strong group of front line fighters would be invaluable. The Orc's fit that perfectly, and being the descendants/followers of an Atmeri/Aldmeri God-Hero (who was also a warrior iirc) could only help their standing.

I don't think the Altmer would accept the Orcs; I thought the former are considered to be supremacists, even killing their own infants when they're considered not "pure" enough? Maybe the Orcs will remain on their own or will continue to cooperate with the remnants of the Empire.

Barbarian does not neccesarily mean no culture or no advancement.
There is tribal, in wich anything not mandatory is forbidden.
There is barbarian, wich relies heavily on a system of honour and might.
And we have civilised (meaning: of the city) wich has elements of both.

Because the barbarian way is antagonistic to the civilised and tribal ways, they are often portrayed as savages by those cultures.
As it is today, demonising your opponent was a popular tactic back then too.
But barabarians may have complex systems of law, of rights and duty, and rich traditions and knowledge.

So the orcs being barbarians does not mean they are incapable of sophisticated culture.

I dont know if my geography is correct, but arent the Wrothgarian mountains near Skyrim?
I hope we will get to learn more about their culture, traditions and religion in the new game.

P.S. Now that the Orcs have a capital city in Orsinium, seemingly becoming more civilised I think a parallel can be made with the Mongols of history, who did the same after succesfully conquering themselves an empire.
Wich fits neatly with their style of armour making

Good post- I agree completely. In relation to your 'civilised' comment- one of the the things I was trying to suggest in my earlier post was that the quantity and quality of metalwork produced by the Orsimer would be suggests that they are indeed 'civilised'- the only 'barbarian' Europeans who were not desperately short of metals relative to the Romans were the Dacians, who are something of a special case. Being able to mine, process and work large amounts of iron ore requires a complex division of labour and some technological sophistication, not to mention an economy/social hierarchy capable of sustaining/enforcing such activity.