I'm a bit curious about the orgins of the Khajiit. According to the Words of the Clan Mother the Khajiit believed that they were once Aldmer, and by the blessing of Azura they became the feline race we know today. This would also explain why the Ohmes subspecies of Khajiit look alot like the Bosmer.

But when Topal the Pilot explored Tamriel before Aldmer settled down their he discovered Cat-Demons ran by the Niben River when he was sailing down it. Could these Cat-Demons be the Khajiit? If that is the case that means that the Khajiit are not elves but in fact aboriginals of Tamriel. Even the Timeline of the Merithic era says that the Khajiit settled in Tamriel before the elves.

So I was hoping that you guys at the Lore forum would shed some light on the Origins of the Khajiit. Are they really elves or the aboriginals of Tamriel?

Words of the Clan mother actually says something else.

In the unstable chaos of Nirns creation, before the Khajiit existed, there were Forrest People. These forest people were trapped in a form between people and plants. Azura took some of them and made them Khajiit.
Later on as the creation of Mundus progressed Y'ffre died and became an Earthbone. By doing this he stabilized an aspect of the world and the Forrest people were no longer trapped between man and plant but were Elves, the Aldmer.
So both the Khajiit and the Aldmer and presumably everything and everybody else once were the Forrest People.

The Story of Topal is interesting but considering it mentions Orcs in High Rock and the Innersea of Morrowind -both which came around only much later- I don't think Topals poem is an authentic record but rather a fictional "travelers' tale" from a much later period.

Well I guess I misread The Words of the Clan Mother, but why do the Ohmes look so much like the bosmer?

There have been a few different incarnations of the Khajiit in the various games. Rather then simply retconning all their appearances this was used as a basis to create their sixteen variations.

Well that and Azura probebly thought that the Ohmes form was a useful form.

This doesn't have anything to do with the straight legs in Oblivion though, that's just because there was no budget for angled legs and because people for some reason don't like limitations - not being able to wear boots.

I thought I read that the Khajiit originated on Tamriel and are the only true denizens of it, although probably the Argonians too but I'm not sure as I mostly read lore of the Khajiit and Akavir. But yeah I'm almost certain that they evolved from the great desert cats of Tamriel.

If we believe Nu Hatta, ALL life is indigenous to Tamriel.

So it's safe to say that there are many ideas about what life is native to where but I do know that I think they are the actually Tamriel born and made being while most others are just imports.

Try looking at it like this:

The Convention occured on Tamriel; we know this for certain (even the word "Tamri-el" suggests this). The strongest of the lesser spirits that witnessed the Convention were the Aldmer; seeing the creation of Adamantia http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml#5. "Ehlnofey" is just a conglomeration of mixed up ideas and memories of the Dawn.

The "original" idea is that there is a continent or land called Aldmeris where the Elves came from. Nu Hatta purports that this is a lie.

edit: Note I didn't mean ALL nations left Tamriel. I felt it necessary to clarify that before someone tried to correct me.

What was that a reply to me? Well I just like the Khajiit telling of how they came to be. Well whatever your preference there is enough evolution stories for everyone.

Setting straight somethings:

-Nu-Hatta mentions that Aldmeris did exist, but only in the non-linear time before the convention.

-Tamriel as a continent didn't exists as such until after the Convention. Before that there was a war between Lorkhan and Auri-El raging and the world was still in flux with the full presence of the Gods.

-The Khajiit and everything else were made before the convention.

So we might as well be arguing whether all live started in China or America while both were part of the super continent Pangea that split up over time - which makes it a silly argument to say the least. Likewise the term original inhabitants has very little meaning because everybody was already in the world while the world wasn't stable yet.

You can also look at it as the start of a strategy game. At the start the people magically appear on the map as if they've always been there. They have back stories that go back and talk about past deeds. Yet you don't get to see them, you only get to see them there at the very start of the game all ready on the map. The convention is the separation between these two.

Ok :blink: well then I say the Khajiit were the ones who when the super continent was like split were inhabiting the area we now know as Tamriel. :hehe: For real I don't know that much about TES lore but yeah I get what your saying but still.

Hah, nice.

The Dawn Era is a big intentional mess. Don't worry about it. Anything you're particularly interested in?

Perhaps I've confused something: so he just denied the existense of an EHLNOFEY continent? I get the ideas of "Aldmeris" and "Ehlnofey" mixed up sometimes.

Aldmeris and Old Elnofey are roughly the same. The place of origins for the Aldmer. The origins of Wanderers are bit more problematic because the Altmer see them as degenerate cast outs while the Anuad thinks of them as hardened invaders. Neither readily compatible with the idea that mortals were the off-spring of the gods or created by them. Though I'm sure that can be worked out.

Nu-Hatta didn't deny the existence of, he confirmed it.

The specific qoute:

"Outside of the Dawn, and even then only in the dreamtime of its landscape, there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves." - Intercept

If you take out the inner clause of the sentence you get:

"Outside of the Dawn there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves."

because Aldmeris existed :

"only in the dreamtime of its landscape".


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I'm glossing over allot. Ask if you don't get where something is coming from.

So basically Aldmeris "exists" in the Dawn, but not necessarily INside of Time?

This is interesting if you can take it literally as it might suggest another race who are both (possibly mobile) plants and 'sentient' - the Hist. The other interpretation - Darwinian seems far less fun.

It also cocks a snoot at the Altmer who one might expect to do anything and everything in their power including crafting misleading or downright lying tales that place them on the other side of creation from those they believe to be their inferiors - just about everyone else And this account dares suggests that the Khajiit were older and in some sense senior to the mer

I have always felt that Topal was an explorer with an open mind and a marvellously inventive turn of phrase that concealed and possibly distorted - but as things stand there are other possibilities = parts of his poem were tacked on later or he was a seer.

It probebly explains why the Bosmer are religious carnivores. Though some other stories mention beast-plant and mer, which seems to be related to their abbility to turn into monsters during the Wild Hunt.

It's not very clear what exactly they were.





There is no outside of time in the Dawn, rather every spirit with power, and some half dying, had the abbility to control the events in time. Like some ones dream becoming a reallity. From all the stories it seems that everybody experienced the dawn differently.

After the convention all those different sequences of events got thrown together and patched up placing people who believed their ancestors are the Tree-People next to the people who believe they were the off-spring of the gods.

Yet it's all true. Exemplified by the shared Tower building of all Mer.

You know, I didn't get that until just now.

That sounds a lot like something very Hircine-related. I wonder if he would be involved, given both hunting and shapeshifting into beasts are within his sphere.

Nah. It doesn't resemble Hircines Hunt in anyway. There is no organization, no Hunter with his dogs, no quarry. The Wild Stampede would probebly be a better name.

The hunt we saw in Morrowind was totally different - true. But Hircine has more than one aspect - could it be possible that Hircine's different Aspects have different characters?

More like Jephre-related. The bloodmoon and the wild hunt have no relation, AFIK.

To add more confusion, the Daedra of Mehrunes hold a Wild Hunt for their entertainment. Also different from the Hunters Game of Hircine and the Wild Hunt of the Bosmer.

http://www.imperial-library.info/bsbooks/posting_hunt.shtml

http://www.imperial-library.info/tsobs/part05.shtml

It's not just the hunt that suggests a link to Hircine. What really seems to connect them is that the Bosmer supposedly turn into beasts for the hunt, and such is another aspect of Hircine. And either way, it is doubtful that Hircine doesn't have any hunts at all between bloodmoons, or he'd be more inactive than an Aedra.

Hircine didn't invent Tamriel's beasts or Tamriel's hunts. That's just what mortals recognize him for.